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I'm on Zurai's side for this one. The example I'd use is flaming sphere. If you direct flaming sphere to a specific area containing an enemy, you're not losing invisibility. Your command to the sphere is just to change location -- you didn't instruct the sphere to attack. It automatically does that where it goes.
Likewise, you're directing where the telekinesis rock drops. You tell the rock where to drop, but you don't actually instruct the rock to attack. The direction it drops (the attack roll) is decided by you, but the spell you're using doesn't directly deal damage (it just holds a rock up).
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See next post.
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My apologies, I was misreading the 3.5 FAQ. I think a more applicable example would be the flaming sphere creating a fire that engulfs foes. The spell effect indirectly causes the damage.
In the case of telekinesis dropping a rock, the damage from the spell is indirectly related to lifting the rock with the spell. Gravity actually propels the rock to the earth.
My first reply was delayed so pretty much pointless. You could certainly use hold portal on all the doors to a house and use flaming sphere to light it on fire without breaking invisibility.
FLAMING SPHERE: Hitting somebody with flaming sphere AT ALL would end your invisibility if you ask me. If you ignited fires with the sphere which then burned your enemies, you would retain your invisibility.
WALL OF FIRE: Somebody walking into a WoF would NOT end your invisibility, though summoning it in their square (or even in the hot zone) most likely will.
TELEKINESIS: Most uses of telekinesis are directed at an enemy target and thus have the potential to end your invisibility. Simply ceasing concentration on a large, heavy object, however, would not.
FALLING RULES BREAKDOWN:
Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object. Falling objects that are part of a trap use the trap rules instead of these general guidelines.
There are two separate thoughts to the above rules text, not one as JM seems to claim. The first (in bold) is referring to things aimed/dropped/thrown down onto people, and the second (in italics) is for objects that are simply falling. They don't both apply to object that are aimed/dropped/thrown down, nor do they both apply to objects that simply happen to be falling.
That is about as clearly as I think I can break it down. Hopefully it will be enough for you JM. Still, I shall attempt to clarify for everyone further with some examples:
If I understand it correctly, JM's interpretation means that if someone threw a boulder off of a battlement the target would get the benefit of his touch AC, and a saving throw if he was aware of the attack.
I, on the other hand, claim that the target would only get the benefit of his touch AC regardless of whether or not he was aware of the boulder hurling attacker (though if he is unaware he would also be flat-footed). Had the attacker been invisible, his invisibility ends due to the attack.
The reflex save only comes into play when an object simply "falls." For example, due to fighting atop the battlements, a large stone block is accidentally knocked over the wall (or perhaps it is flying debri from a far away explosion) any target or targets in the objects "landing zone" gets a Reflex save (regardless of whether or not they are aware, but not if they are helpless). The person responsible for accidentally knocking the block off or for detonating the explosion would retain their invisibility effect if any.
Using telekinesis to hurl a boulder off a battlement at someone ends your invisibility. Picking it up and dropping it on someone's head does the same. Simply rolling it over the edge, however and letting it free fall (or ceasing concentration on telekinesis, however, does not (and the target, if he happens to be in the falling object's way, benefits from a save rather than touch AC).
By JM's interpretation, my blindly rolling a boulder over the battlements into the thousands of raiders below would automatically miss everyone since I did not "aim" it. For obvious reasons, the thought is patently ridiculous.
If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object.
Let's not forget that the Reflex save option applies only when the creature has been hit by a falling object (not maybe falls on a creature, but actually falls on a creature). The rules are somewhat silent on the conditions that determine whether an unattended falling object hits, only the DC that applies to halve damage upon being hit. This allows the GM a considerable degree of discretion here.
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Here is an idea that banishes the whole problem with levitate/Telekinesis>
An invisible wizard has found an opening 15 ft up a wall above a door. In that opening there is a 5'diameter boulder. He casts reverse gravity on the space in front of the opening and then stone shape on the floor to gently roll the boulder out into the gravity field. A couple of rounds later, some fool walks out the door below and the wizard dismisses the reverse gravity spell. this drops the boulder on the poor sap below.
Does the boulder have to make a touch attack?
Does the poor sap get a reflex save?
Does it pop the wizard out of invisibility?
By my reading and opinion the answer is:
The poor sap gets to make a reflex save and the wizard stays invisible. This is a indirect attack the wizard is not directly aiming the boulder, and the poor sap is not the target of a spell or in the area of a spell (after all you are not targeting him or the area he is in with either the stone shape or the reverse gravity.)
This is very much like having a summoned monster attack, just in this case the summoned monster is a boulder.
Edit to add: Sure there are more productive things a Wizard of that level could do, but I have been in parties with gnome wizards before...
Here is an idea that banishes the whole problem with levitate/Telekinesis>
An invisible wizard has found an opening 15 ft up a wall above a door. In that opening there is a 5'diameter boulder. He casts reverse gravity on the space in front of the opening and then stone shape on the floor to gently roll the boulder out into the gravity field. A couple of rounds later, some fool walks out the door below and the wizard dismisses the reverse gravity spell. this drops the boulder on the poor sap below.
Does the boulder have to make a touch attack?
Does the poor sap get a reflex save?
Does it pop the wizard out of invisibility?
By my reading and opinion the answer is:
The poor sap gets to make a reflex save and the wizard stays invisible. This is a indirect attack the wizard is not directly aiming the boulder, and the poor sap is not the target of a spell or in the area of a spell (after all you are not targeting him or the area he is in with either the stone shape or the reverse gravity.)
This is very much like having a summoned monster attack, just in this case the summoned monster is a boulder.
Edit to add: Sure there are more productive things a Wizard of that level could do, but I have been in parties with gnome wizards before...
I agree with your assertion.