Survivability of a Cleric-less Party?


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So I"m playing the cleric in my current group and I've just died for the 2nd time. Once at LVL 6 (resulting in a character change to another cleric), and recently again at LVL 11. I'm really sick and tired of playing the cleric. My question is how bad will I be screwing the party if I create a character of a different class?

The group is as listed, not including my cleric.

2 Rogue/9 Ranger
11 Bard
6-Sorecer/5-Dragon Disciple (or whatever the break down)
9 Druid - Follower of Bard
7 Fighter - NPC from GM

Neither the bard nor the rogue/ranger cast use magic device.


How the hell is a lvl 11 cleric dying in a party before a TPK? Game rules at our table is always protect the healer.

The Exchange

the druid can heal, if he needs to. it would screw with his spell selection a lot, but those are the breaks. the ranger can also CLW. if you get some wands for healing, then the two of them should have a fair number of bases covered there.

one option you have, is taking the leadership feat on your new character, and getting a cleric cohort to follow you.

your first priority should be having fun playing the game. if a cleric isnt fun for you, then pick another class.


Eh UMD and someone buy wands. Ya don't have to have a cleric. They are useful but not a must.


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
How the hell is a lvl 11 cleric dying in a party before a TPK? Game rules at our table is always protect the healer.

I agree. How are you (the Cleric) getting killed? There is no reason you should be dead before other party members. Your the healer and if you need it heal yourself.

Grand Lodge

Screw what is best for everyone else if they keep letting the cleric die. No excuse for that. Play what you want and let them die for a change and have them play a cleric.


You hve 3 people who can be alternate healers. I have been in no-cleric parties for more games than not, and its not that bad. I have been in plenty of games that didn't even have divine casters and UMD was the only healing. We got through fine. I say play what you want to play and don't worry about what the others think you need.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

You've got 3 characters that can use a wand of cure light wounds. At 750 gp for 50d8+50 points of curing, they're cheaper than being a cleric. Plus the bard and druid both have healing capacity via spells if folks need bigger cures in combat. The only capability that you'd lose is raise dead, which is expensive no matter whether you can cast it yourself or pay someone else. Roll whatever you want and tell your friends to buy some freakin wands.

Shadow Lodge

Play a negative energy cleric for a change of pace. Too many enemies get to close, hurt them all with the channel, "allies" be damned! <- Joke(maybe)

Out of curiosity, what spells did you usually prepare?


The bard, the druid and the ranger can cast healing spells and use items. The druid can even reincarnate.
If you're worried, you can try a paladin if your tastes and campaign allow it.


How come the Bard does'nt have UMD? Think you can convince him to grab it? At least enough for wands of CLW.

As for the cleric necessity, I too have played in more games without a cleric than games with one.

Idealy you should generally not need to heal during combat, being able to fill back up after the encounter, or a few encounters, most of the time. So a dedicated healer is generaly less valuable an asset that most other roles (hence the "the Bard should do it" part ;p).

Backing the party is important, but only if its a role you enjoy playing.


Ainslan wrote:

How come the Bard does'nt have UMD? Think you can convince him to grab it? At least enough for wands of CLW.

Umm.. clw is on the bard spell list so they don't need to UMD to activate wands of it.

-James


yeah the first time i was killed off because I temporarily quit the group. the 2nd time (UPdate: we've actually decided that I didn't die) but regardless, I'm getting tired of having to spend my round healing people, Especially considering the bard and rogue didn't take UMD and the Druid never cast cures (only when I go down), not to mention buffed I'm one of the best fighters in the group.

Enough woe is me crap though, I'm probably going to break off from cleric and go the Paladin route. At 11 I've got Heal and Resurrection, so I think I've got enough to maintain the party's health.

The Exchange

Wands and scrolls are your friends here. Remember a caster can use a wand or scroll for any spell that's on their class spell list, not just what they know. This makes the Druid great for cure lights, cure serious and other healing stuff in the form of wands and scrolls.

Rangers too, and bards to an extent.

After those options are exhausted, if someone has ranks in use magic device then they can stand in as well.

The biggest problem with a lack of a dedicated healer is the capacity to drop big heals in the middle of combat. This is particulalry true at high levels where the differnece between living fighter types and dead fighter types is about two rounds of full attacks from the big bad. Nothing more disheartening for a baddy than to watch a guy get beat on for a whole round so he's nearly dead, then watch his mate fully heal him again. That is now a much harder option for your party.

I want to reiterate what others have said by the way, play whatever makes you happy. Let the others know they'll need a change of tactics and your DM may need to keep this in mind as well. (May need to compensate by dropping more wands and poitions and scrolls of healing stuff).

Cheers


Yeah our current party is Clericless im the best healer and im a ranger sorcerer but we are only 3rd level so we have been OK


Our parties have always had a cleric in them, going all the way back to 1st edition. Originally, nobody ever wanted to play a cleric, but once I houseruled divine casters no longer had to prep spells, suddenly the cleric role wasn't so bad (still wasn't favored, but we finally could get PCs to fill the role instead of red shirts, err NPCs). FYI, red shirts is a Star Trek reference.

We played with freecasting divine casters all the way up to 3.0 (when I stopped DMing). Given that we've always had PC clerics, I can't really comment as to the survivability of parties without one. If you can survive encounters without serious healing, then wands will help you fill back up after the combat is over.

Our groups generally need big heals during combat, however, so we would have a lot of dead PCs if we didn't have a primary healer. Since we do, though, PC death is a threat but not often a reality. Good luck!


Play what you want. If someone dies, THEY can create the next cleric if they feel the party needs one. Besides, as others have pointed out, you already have alternate healing.


I would say that in a normal game a healer is a must and the cleric is the master of that role but I have been playing in a scoundrel’s game with 2 rogues a monk and a ranger and all is well because the game is designed with that in mind.

If you are running a module and you have no dedicated healing your party is probably going to be worm-food. But in a free range game, such as the one I’m currently playing in, the DM has adjusted the game to be challenging in ways other than hard fights all the time.


Yeah it just sucks when I spend an entire fight casting heals and bursts, when if one of the weaker characters fell back and let me fight things would go smoother. I signed up for the cleric, so I'll just have to avoid it next campaign.


Deyvantius wrote:
Yeah it just sucks when I spend an entire fight casting heals and bursts, when if one of the weaker characters fell back and let me fight things would go smoother. I signed up for the cleric, so I'll just have to avoid it next campaign.

being a cleric doesnt mean you have to be a giant bandaid, if characters that dont belong there are getting into combat its their own fault. Let them know they'll get healed after the fight and not during unless they are dieing. But if you dont wanna be a cleric, dont be, there are others in the party that can heal, let them do it.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Your Bard can cast Cure Light, Moderate, and Serious Wounds. If it's not on his known spell list, he can still use a Wand because it's on the bardic spell list. And if the Bard's player and the GM are willing, have the Bard re-learn spells so he's at least maybe got Cure Moderate that he can cast. The Bard also buffs better than a Cleric because both songs and spells do that, so you won't miss the Cleric on that front.

Druid and Ranger are also great for healing, and in fact since the Druid is a follower that should be the Druid's primary role. The Restoration family of spells is on the Druid's list, so you're good to go there. The Ranger can fill in any possible holes.

In short: As far as healing and other support spells go, no--you don't need a cleric at all.

I'd be more concerned if it's an undead-heavy campaign. Without Channeling Positive Energy and certain cleric spells, you could be hurting if you fight a lot of undead--but even so you have a solid party make up, and it will only be a little harder.

If it's not an undead-heavy campaign, no worries.

Grand Lodge

It sounds like the issue is the way the party plays. If your other players have no idea what they are doing and wading into combat so you have to waste your action patching them up, then don´t be a cleric. Let them TPK and learn to play better. Even for published games, you shouldn´t be using the cleric that way. Depending on how the druid and sorcerer is being played, what your party maybe REALLY be missing is a battlefield controller. If you don´t have somebody doing that, that is more important then a cleric.

Liberty's Edge

I actually really like playing clerics, especially Pathfinder clerics - I probably will play one when we start Kingmaker in a few months.

That said, I agree that a party doesn't have to have a cleric. A party does't really have to have any class. A cleric is a great addition to a party but the party should be fine without one.

Our current party in Council of Thieves is 7th level and has no cleric. We have a paladin, a monk, a spell-less ranger, a sorcerer and a rogue/shadow dancer.

We're doing fine! I agree with what others have said - play what YOU want, not what you think the party needs!

Dark Archive

Mirror, Mirror wrote:
How the hell is a lvl 11 cleric dying in a party before a TPK? Game rules at our table is always protect the healer.

Happpens. My cleric has died twice as well. Once at 8th protecting the mage from the large monster that got near him, literally getting phsyically between to two. The party couldnt kill it fast enough to save me.

The second time was a sliding trap into a lava pit, he ended up saving the rest of half the party by casting stone shape behind him in a wall to prevent the rest from falling in. But couldnt get it right to save himself and they couldnt get him out in time.


Having played without a cleric more often than with, I'd say you should be fine unless the DM is stingy about buying wands of cure light. The druid, ranger, and bard all have healing spells on their list and can use wands without UMD checks. Spells at the ready are just the most convenient for stabilizing characters, but not essential. Casting healing spells in combat is only effective if it heals more damage than is being taken during a single action. Dropping an enemy a round sooner from increased damage output is more effective.

Play what you feel will be fun. The party will adapt to the situation.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I agree with the majority, with the druid and a couple of wands the group should be fine IMHO.

Dark Archive

Deyvantius wrote:
not to mention buffed I'm one of the best fighters in the group.

This could be your problem. If you're 'one of the best fighters in the group' and you keep dying, it's possible that you aren't quite as good as the people who *don't* keep dying.

Skip playing something that has to buff itself up (and can be reasonably expected to fill the healer role by the rest of the players) like a Cleric and just play something that is a good fighter right out of the box, like a Paladin or Fighter. If you go Fighter, you can take a Cleric cohort, if you really want a backup Cleric. If you go Paladin (or attempt TreantMonk's 'switch-hitter' Ranger build), you can use CLW wands anyway.

You can even go with something fun and play a 'strong' race, like an Aasimar or Suli Paladin, for some decent stompage.


my group always has to have a cleric, and less than a handful of poeple want to play one. 60% of the group plays the same build or the same set of themed builds. but that 60% is so predicatable. i am pretty much the only member willing to be a skill monkey, a healbot or an arcanist. but i cannot play all 3 roles at one time. and through cohorts can only cover 2. my dm doesn't like the idea of cohorts though. he allows them case by case. and has to critique them.


Whether a party 'needs' a healer or not is based on what the DM throws at you, and/or how unavailable he makes healing potions, healing wands or salves...


We did just fine as a cleric-less party in rise of the runelords. Besides you have a druid... just have him whip up a reincarnation and you have the cleric back.

However with the party you have going without the cleric should be fine... just be mindful to rotate the battle line so no one person gets stuck eating all the attacks.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Right now I'm running a cleric-less party with an Artificer, Druid, Inquisitor, and a Monk. The artificer is the main out-of-combat healer with his cure wands and supplies potions for during combat. Druid is a melee fighter heh. They are doing just fine so far. When one of them gets hurt real bad they just end up crawling back where its safe next to the artificer.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

For out of combat healing, use Wands of Lesser Vigor. 11 pts per charge, guaranteed. 550 pts of healing for 750 gp. Or just do CLW.

If you're good at Melee, just prep Quickened Cures for yourself, if you have to. Swift actions don't provoke AoO, so you should be able to cast Quickened Cure Moderates on yourself as a swift action, and then get back to the melee.

Support classes should be support healers. buffed up, you are not a support class. Heal spells are the only thing you might want to keep handy for healing someone else in combat. Everything else is a waste of your action, normally.

Make sure you tell the other players that's how you are going to approach combat now. If they can't adjust to the change in priorities, then make sure you have the wherewithal to get away when the rest of them die.

==Aelryinth


I'm playing in a group without a cleric and we're doing fine.

4 man party:

Me (combat druid w/a wand of cure lights)
Bard
Sorcerer
Wizard

It's really just a case of learning to fight smarter not harder.

Sovereign Court

The bard is about to get soothing performance for out of combat heals.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deyvantius wrote:

So I"m playing the cleric in my current group and I've just died for the 2nd time. Once at LVL 6 (resulting in a character change to another cleric), and recently again at LVL 11. I'm really sick and tired of playing the cleric. My question is how bad will I be screwing the party if I create a character of a different class?

The group is as listed, not including my cleric.

2 Rogue/9 Ranger
11 Bard
6-Sorecer/5-Dragon Disciple (or whatever the break down)
9 Druid - Follower of Bard
7 Fighter - NPC from GM

Neither the bard nor the rogue/ranger cast use magic device.

You have 3 secondary healers in the party and you are concerned about not having a cleric!? Jeez!

The rogue/ranger, bard, and druid are all capable of using healing scrolls/wands/spells WITHOUT the need for the use magic device skill. That should be more than enough to allow your party to thrive (much less stay afloat) regardless of what you decide to play.


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
my group always has to have a cleric, and less than a handful of poeple want to play one. 60% of the group plays the same build or the same set of themed builds. but that 60% is so predicatable. i am pretty much the only member willing to be a skill monkey, a healbot or an arcanist. but i cannot play all 3 roles at one time. and through cohorts can only cover 2. my dm doesn't like the idea of cohorts though. he allows them case by case. and has to critique them.

Off topic here, but you have THE most messed up campaign I ever heard of. Doesn't Aaron use any heal spells on the party?


carmachu wrote:
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
How the hell is a lvl 11 cleric dying in a party before a TPK? Game rules at our table is always protect the healer.

Happpens. My cleric has died twice as well. Once at 8th protecting the mage from the large monster that got near him, literally getting phsyically between to two. The party couldnt kill it fast enough to save me.

The second time was a sliding trap into a lava pit, he ended up saving the rest of half the party by casting stone shape behind him in a wall to prevent the rest from falling in. But couldnt get it right to save himself and they couldnt get him out in time.

Yeah i had a druid for our only healer. The melee junkies charged a hill giant that should've been left alone. So when our rogue darted in to save them and took a direct hit, he was dying. I ran to save him...

I misjudged his reach.

Anyway, with the support your group has, you should be more than ready. Especially if you are making a paladin


You guys are nutz.

Without a cleric in this game your party is toast - unless your DM scales back on the monster melee units. But if he/she doesn't, and you are playing any of the published adventures/paths, your party is t-o-a-s-t.


Fatman Feedbag wrote:

You guys are nutz.

Without a cleric in this game your party is toast - unless your DM scales back on the monster melee units. But if he/she doesn't, and you are playing any of the published adventures/paths, your party is t-o-a-s-t.

OH so wrong. We survived (and thrived) in RotRL without a cleric, and are doing so in LOF... and did so in numerous homebrewed campaigns that honestly made large portions of AOW look like a walk in the park (I still don't know how we continued to roll as well as we did in that campaign).

Clerics aren't necessary in large part due to the fact that in combat healing is ridiculously useless. Since in combat healing isn't need, out of combat healing can easily be handled by slower methods. Since these methods are rather cheap (and available to a wide number of classes) you don't need the cleric.


There is something more important than the 'success' of the party if you are not enjoying yourself.

Tell the group you've contributed 3 clerics and you're board of the character class. Make up something that interests you and they'll adapt. If they won't adapt and let you play something you enjoy too there's a bigger problem.

Don't gripe or whine. Simply make the character you are interested in.

Sigurd

Grand Lodge

Fatman Feedbag wrote:

You guys are nutz.

Without a cleric in this game your party is toast - unless your DM scales back on the monster melee units. But if he/she doesn't, and you are playing any of the published adventures/paths, your party is t-o-a-s-t.

If the cleric is casting battle spells, then yes having one is nice...if you want a healbot, then it´s a waste of a player. In pretty much any publish adventure I have played in, unless the players are being morons, you don´t need a cleric. In fact a second arcanist is better then a cleric usually...barring spell compendium spells...in which case, be druid and laugh at how easy everything is.


clerics are there to compensate for mistakes of Leeroy Jenkins


OR... Build yourself a Battle focus oracle with the Haunted Curse (extra spells known). You'll know all cures and get spont casting. If you take weapon mastery mystery you'll get Gtr Wpn Fcs so all up a 'More Capable' Melee option than a standard cleric.

There's even qickened heals for 2xspell slots if you really need to stop dying.

Cheers.


Having, too, spent a few adventures without a cleric, I have to say that it all depends on the GM. If no wand of CLW is available in your campaign world and no PC has access to CLW themselves, the party is pretty much screwed. We did survive, but barely. Luck was on our side on several Fortitude saves against poison, and party work was able to get us out of deadly traps. But the absence of a cleric was glaringly obvious when one of us did fall in the negatives. We did have the possibility of buying potions and salves of CLW, but they were expensive, and the usual damage we got from adventure was too much to be healed that way.

So, talk to your fellow players to see if one of them can take the role. If none of them want, talk to your GM to gauge the availability of healing from magic items. If none of them provide anything, you can still play something other than a cleric and still provide healing yourself: a Paladin can be an impressive healer, too. I once saw one played in a mid-level party, and he could heal 6d6 ten times per day, had mercies to heal diseases, curses, and poison, and could use his Lay of Hands on himself as a swift action. Not to mention his bonus to saves, his immunity to diseases and fear, and his general survivability. He also had spells, could channel energy, and a divine bond with his weapon. All in all, a good package. A lawful good package, even.


One major thing I would put forth is that if you are thinking about playing a straight 11th level Paly: Aura of Justice allows your ENITRE GROUP (assuming they are within 10 feet of you) to bypass the target's Damage reduction, get better to hit rolls, AND to A LOT more damage (especially if your rogue is a two weapon fighter). The more enemies you take down like that, the less healing you have to do with Lay on Hands (By the way: The new Mercy system kicks some serious buttocks). If you were to build a strictly Mercy-based Human Paladin, you can achieve all Mercies at 19th level with Endurance and Diehard at First Level. It's Pretty Epic.
Additionally, there is no such thing as Lawful Stupid, just stupid players, so I don't want to hear any of that !@#$^% here. There are a lot of different ways to play a Lawful Good character, even if it is just an act to appease your God/Church (Thank you for that enlightenment Irenic).


Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
clerics are there to compensate for mistakes of Leeroy Jenkins

As a matter of fact, the cleric in a game I play in IS a Leeroy Jenkins. One of two Jenkinses in the party. 50% of our party is Leeroy Jenkins. Four third level characters CANNOT take on 20 orcs, an ogre, and an orc captain. This is apparently not common knowledge.

Zo


I DM more than i play and it has been that way for a long time.

Why not have the DM run the cleric? (rather than the fighter)

If your DM is going to run a NPC in the party the cleric has been the "main" option in my XP.

Dark Archive

The current game that I am in contains the following:

all level 4

Monk
Barbarian
Rogue
Sorcerer
Druid

And once we purchased a nice wand of CLW's we are good on the healing. The druid normally carries it around, but the Sorc (who has UMD) will pick it up and use it on the druid if needed.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have to bring this out again. Written for 3.5, but the argument is still valid in Pathfinder even if all of the options are not.

A Players Guide to Healing wrote:


Healin'. Patchin' up the wounds. Sewing the Fighter's larynx back in after he took an arrow through the neck and lived and wanted to tell about it. Every player knows the drill. But oddly, a lot of players just use really... silly methods of going about healing themselves, and have some wild misconceptions about how to do it effectively and even how much of a priority it should be.

The Problems

Some players think they *have* to have a cleric or druid to cover the healing role, and place healing as an extremely high priority, even in combat, and even if they don't, many even spend inordinate amounts of money on extremely inefficient healing items that may hurt them more than help them.

To summarize a few common issues:

Players overprioritize healing in combat when there are more effective options available to them.

Players spend too much money on healing, often spending wads of cash on things like potions of Cure Moderate Wounds.

Players believe they can't heal efficiently without a Cleric or Druid or similar class in the party, and view such as an essential role, to the point where some even *force* others to play a Cleric or Druid just so that they can have a dedicated healer, and then downplay the extraordinary talents of those classes and belittle them to a mere healing role, making for an unenjoyable experience for the victim of this treatment.

Many players just don't know how to get the best healing for their buck.

Some Information and Comparisons

First, an effort at dispelling some of the myths. First off, you should probably never be buying healing potions, perhaps with the exception of Cure Light Wounds or a similar level 1 spell. The reason for this is simple. The cost is exorbitant, and it's really not worth it. A Cure Serious Wounds potion will heal, on average, 18.5 hp, and it will cost you 750gp, and it will take either a standard or a full round action to use, and it will provoke AoOs unless you did some further investment to prevent that, and on top of that it probably smells bad and tastes bitter. Yuck. For the same price, you could have gotten a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (275hp total instead of 18.5hp), a Wand of Lesser Vigor (550hp total instead of 18.5gp), or a Healing Belt (Either 6d8 hp (average 27 hp) a day, or 18 hp (same as the potion!) per day if you burst heal, usable as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)) Would you rather get 18 hp, or 18 hp per day? Now would you rather use a standard or full action that provokes AoOs, *and* need to draw the item, or would you rather use a standard action that doesn't provoke AoOs? And hey, wouldn't you like the option to heal even more for efficiency, outside of battle? There's even another option, this one for artificers, that costs a mere 50 gp a pop: Infuse an ally with Greater Healing armor. This will give them 6d8+30 total healing (3d8+15 as a swift action, usable twice). As an added bonus, it will even automatically heal you if you get knocked unconscious. The point is... potions are bad. Potions are inefficient. So are scrolls of Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, and so forth.

Second, a dedicated healer is not a necessary combat role. Seriously.

First off, healing often does not outpace damage. Moreover, removing an enemy a threat can often be much more effective at saving your allies' necks than going up and poking them with Cure X Wounds. If an enemy were to deal 50 damage to an ally, and you can take that enemy out by either disabling or killing them, then you've "healed" that ally of the 50 damage he would have taken. Additionally, as healing often does not keep up the pace with damage, even if you can't disable the enemy, healing the ally might not be good enough to save them. Instead, you might want to use an ability to help the ally escape, or block the enemy from attacking them (this can be something as simple as Benign Transposition, really). In fact, healing in combat is only situationally a good choice, and is often a subpar tactical option.

Secondly, you can get very efficient out-of-combat healing quite easily without a Cleric or Druid, and indeed a Rogue, Artificer, Paladin, Ranger, Factotum, Warlock, or Bard could fill the healing role with a wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor. In fact, you can even get good, cheap burst healing comparable to the Cleric or Druid's ability at low levels with items like the Healing Belt.

Actually, the Artificer can prove to be a fantastic healer, cheaply (we're talking 37.5% market price here) turning out healing belts, wands of lesser vigor, and providing Greater Healing armor infusions (a mere second level infusion) at an early level. The Paladin and Ranger can use wands of Cure Light Wounds without penalty, and the others can use UMD to master the efficient wands. On top of that, members of *any* class can easily chip in with the very efficient Healing Belt.

These things considered, you really can get by without a Cleric or Druid. In fact, if you do have a Cleric or Druid, they're probably going to be more useful in most combats if they are doing something OTHER than healing, since they have considerable talents in many regards.

How to Heal Effectively

(Author's note: I have excluded a few very potent and efficient means of healing because things like the infinite-healing-for-cheap trap and other such things are just plain abusive, and few sane DMs will allow them)

Blessed Bandages (10gp, MiC page 152): 10gp to automatically succeed to stabilize an ally. Can definitely save a friend at very low levels.

Wands of Cure Light Wounds (750gp, Core): The hallmark of efficiency. These wands will dish out an average of 5.5hp a pop, and with 50 charges that will add up to 275 total healing. This wand gains an advantage over Lesser Vigor in two respects: Speed of use, and the fact that Lesser Vigor is a Cleric and Druid only spell, and thus is only available to those classes and UMD users, while Paladins and Rangers and the like will stick to Cure Light Wounds.
Wands of Lesser Vigor (750gp, Spell Compendium Page 229): These are the most efficient healing wands around! You get 11 hp per pop (though it takes a full minute to gain that 11 hp), and you get a total of 550hp of healing for your 750gp.

Healing Belts (750gp, MiC page 110): For 750gp, *anyone* can heal 6d8 hp a day, and even burst heal for 4d8hp as a Standard action with a Touch range, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity like spells and scrolls. Also, with the MiC rules for adding common effects, you don't even need to worry about "keeping the slot free" anymore. You can actually just say, give one of these to everyone in a party of 5 for 30d8 healing per day, and just subsidize your healing costs. This is a great way to keep everyone alive at low levels. As if this weren't good enough, you get feel-good +2 bonus to Heal checks as a bonus.

Artificers can heal very effectively with Greater Healing Armor (MiC page 12), dishing out 3d8+15 healing *twice* usable as a swift action, and even automatically healing a character should they fall unconscious. Best of all, this only costs you 50gp for a total of 6d8+30hp healing, and is available at a very low level.

Wand of Faith Healing (Spell Compendium): It's kinda cheesy, but it's worth mentioning if your DM allows it. It's exactly the same as Cure Light Wounds, except maximized and only usable on people who share your faith (which can easily just be everyone in your party). I personally don't allow this spell as a DM.

Touch of Healing (Reserve Feat, Complete Champion pg 62): This one is for the actual "healers." As long as you have a healing spell of second level or higher ready to cast, you can heal anyone up to half their total hp (but no higher, meaning you have to use more abilities to fully heal them) for free. Basically, for the cost of a feat, you get a lot of free healing.

Summon Nature's Ally IV (Core): Summoning a Unicorn nets you a free set of 3 CLWs, 1 CMW, and a Neutralize Poison. It has a caster level of 5th, so that'll total 5d8+20 points of healing (and a neutralize poison). It's even something a druid can cast spontaneously. Not bad.

Revivify (Cleric 5, Spell Compendium page 176): Revive your dead buddy for 1000gp as a standard action instead of for 5000gp as a much longer action, and best of all *no level loss.* A no brainer really. You just need to be quick about it, acting within 1 round of the victim's death!

Revenance (Cleric 4, Paladin 4, Bard 6): This spell can target any character that died within 1 round / caster level of casting. The subject comes back to life (as if by Raise Dead except with no penalties) and is able to fight (with a +1 morale bonus on attack, damage, and saves against the person who killer her) for 1 minute per level, at the end of which the character dies again. The real seller here is that it has a wider window to cast than Revivify (1 round / level), and moreover the ally will die at the end of the spell (or after being killed again), often allowing you to use Revivify when it would otherwise be impossible (window passed) or too dangerous (in the middle of combat).

Delay Death (Cleric 4, Spell Compendium page 63): As an *Immediate Action*, the ally becomes unable to die from hit point damage (they'll still fall unconscious, they just won't die.) This means that you can instantaneously cast this spell when a buddy takes their final hit, and they won't die for 1 round/level (during which time you can finish the encounter, then heal them up.) Can definitely be a lifesaver.

Tomb Tainted Soul (Feat, Libris Mortis): This handy feat allows you to be healed by negative energy. This means that a living Dread Necromancer can heal you to full as much as she likes with Charnel Touch, and that you can heal yourself with things like Uttercold metamagiced spells and the like.

Amulet of Retributive Healing (2000gp, MiC Page 69): This handy little doodad lets you double up on your healing 3 times per day. When activated (as a swift action) this amulet allows you to cure yourself of an amount of damage equal to however much you cured your buddy of. So, if you cast Heal on your ally, you can activate this item to use a free quickened Heal on yourself. Works with scrolls and everything, too.

Collar of Healing (5000gp, MiC page 90): As an *Immediate action* once per day, heal your animal companion of 50hp and cures the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions. Keep your little buddy going. As an added bonus, it works at any range (as long as you're on the same plane), and lets you know your companion's exact hit point total at all times.

Heal (Core): Heal is a great spell. It really is. It's the healing spell you actually might want to use in fights fairly often. It heals a ton of damage, and it takes away ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. A laundry list of status effects, some of which are quite deadly in their own right! However, Heal is not a necessary party role in and of itself! Again, you don't actually need *any* in-combat healing to have a highly effective party. Still, when you *do* have a Cleric or Druid around, there's no reason they shouldn't have this ready. If you don't have a Cleric or Druid around, you may want to consider a scroll or two of this for those few situations where you really do want a Heal (i.e., your buddy just got blasted for 100 damage and got stunned to boot).

Divine Ward (Feat, PHB II): This feat will help out the "true healers," allowing them to use Close Range instead of Touch Range for their healing spells on one ally by spending your Turning attempts. You can get a similar results with Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (Which happens to be doubly useful for, say, a ranged Slay Living).

Augment Healing (Feat, Complete Divine): Add +2 healing per level of the healing spell cast. Simple and effective for a dedicated healer, should you choose to get one.

False Life (Sor/Wiz 2, Core):
Instead of taking up an action to heal during combat, take an action to heal up to 1 hour / level before combat ever happens! See also, Aid (Cleric 2, PHB)

Empathic Transfer (Egoist 2, Psychic Warrior 2, XPH): This useful power is the standy of healing as a Psionic character. The method is a little unique as opposed to standard methods of healing, but it works just as well. You eliminate anywhere from 2d10 to 10d10 (depending on augment) hp of damage from an ally, and transfer half of that damage onto yourself. Combined with Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH), and Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH) both shared to your psicrystal through Share Powers, the temporary hit points will absorb all of the damage.

Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH): This power giives you 5 temporary hit points per power point spent, lasting for a minute per level. It's like healing *before* you ever take damage, and lets you buff beforehand in order to avoid the need to heal in combat.

Amulet of Tears (2300gp, MiC page 70): Another source of temporary hit points, this handy item stores 3 charges per day and grants temporary hit points lasting for 10 minutes based on the number of charges spent. For 1 charge, you gain 12 tmporary hit points, and for 3 charges grants 24 temporary hit points.

Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH): This power transfers half of the damage dealt to you to a willing subject, and thus helps a good deal with damage mitigation. It lasts for an hour per level, so can last for a full day's worth of encounters, and a popular use is to combine it with a Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH) power shared with your psicrystal and make your psicrystal the subject, effectively doubling the effect of vigor and transferring a good deal of hp damage onto a target that is often a noncombatant.

Shield Other (Cleric 2, Paladin 2, Core): This is much like Share Pain, except it deals half of an ally's damage to you, helping you to protect them. It also adds a +1 resistance bonus to saves and a +1 deflection bonus to AC for the target, as an added plus.

Vampiric Touch (Sor/Wiz 3, Duskblade 3, Core): 1d6 damage per two levels, and gain temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. This spell is notable for combining offensive abilities and effective in-combat "healing" into the same attack. This spell is useful in spell storing weapons, or channeled through a Duskblade's "Arcane Channelling" ability. It is generally *not* a good idea for the average mage to run up into melee and try to touch an enemy with it, because the damage will be low and the temporary hp probably won't save you from a world of pain (unless you have other protective spells and such up). Also note that if you're an Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster, you can increase the amount healed with sneak attacks!

Bloodstone weapon enhancement (+1, page 29 MiC): Stores and casts Vampiric Touch just like a spell storing weapon, except that it's automatically empowered. Basically, this will deal extra damage on attacks equal to (1d6 per two caster levels)*1.5, *and* give the wielder of the weapon temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. Thus, you're adding to damage and to healing at the same time! See also: Vampiric Touch.

Bodyfeeder weapon enhancement (+3 bonus, XPH): This handy enhancement will grant its wielder temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt by any critical hit he dishes out. With an expanded critical hit range, you can expect this to give a steady stream of temporary hp. This enhancement can be granted by an artificer spending a 3rd level infusion and a small amount of gp. (Note: Though "Wrathful Healing" is almost certainly more effective, it's much less likely to be allowed)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Freddy Honeycutt wrote:

I DM more than i play and it has been that way for a long time.

Why not have the DM run the cleric? (rather than the fighter)

If your DM is going to run a NPC in the party the cleric has been the "main" option in my XP.

If you're going to have the DM run a healbot NPC, choose the Healer (Miniatures Handbook) over the Cleric. That way you have NO risk of an overpowered DMPC without it being obvious fiat.

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