I saw some grapple options not in Pathfinder that were in the 3.5 rules and I am curious as to why? And would it hurt just to add them back in? Some also require some clarification:
ACTIVATING MAGIC ITEM
Originally, you couldn't activate spell completion items. Can you in Pathfinder? Does it require a grapple check if you're being grappled or are the grappler?
RETRIEVE SPELL COMPONENT
I take it this requires a Move Action and not a Full-Round anymore?
USE OPPONENT'S WEAPON
Can one use an opponent's weapon against them still? Such as you're bare-handed and want to stick someone's light weapon into them for some damage, I assume it'd be a grapple check against CMD and only if you're the grappler?
PINNED
It says the one pinning you can simply stop you from speaking, does the enemy pinning you still have that option when they successfully pin you?
PINNING
It says you can take away the opponents items. I assume since the one pinning is only considered grappled, it can make Disarm checks as an attack roll?
SIZE
I take it according to Pathfinder, you're not limited by enemy size when you grapple? As long as you beat the CMD of the enemy, you're both grappled. So, could a Gargantuan dragon being grappled by a Medium human make a grapple check to become the grappler and then succeed on another grapple check to fly off with the Medium creature? (eventually dropping it by releasing as a free action) Could the Medium creature attempt methods to still hold on in such a situation? (is it grapple versus CMD or can a Climb check be used in place for the cinematic, "Shadow of the Colossus" type action?)
Mr.Fishy is also curious about the size difference. Mr. Fishy wants to know if an ogre could take a penalty to grapple CMB/CMD to stand on a halfling. The halfling could be pinned or grappled but the larger creature would be able to fight ungrappled with a penalty. The ogre would still take the grappled penalty to Att/Def but he could step on the halfling (pinning him). Then attack another opponnent.
Like a small child grabbing your leg you can still move, slow and clumsy but moving and you could still fight off the swarm of munchkins.
It would hamper you to a point but after two sizes. A Human jumps on a huge giant. Giant ignores human and continues to fight. That human is still there he's just not big enough to hamper a huge creature.
Just a thought...
"Mr. Fishy bravely bites the Dragon in the big toe."
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I think the size modifiers for grappling in PF might be a little too low. But just like the rules account for a creature with more than two legs as being more difficult to grapple, so too do I give a bonus for extremely heavy creatures.
To me it seems reasonable that if your Str allows you to pick up 800# over your head, then any creature that weighs more than twice that should get a bonus. I do this by providing a +2 bonus to the creature's CMD for every doubling of the creature's weight over the attacker's Max Load amount.
For example, I've got a Bbn PC with a Str of 30 in my party. A huge red dragon that weighs 20,000# is grappled by the Bbn. The bbn's Max Load is 1600#, so the dragon receives +2 for weighing 3200# or more, then another +2 for weighing 6400# or more, then a final +2 for weighing 12,800# or more.
As you say, if a child tries to grapple an adult, the adult may just ignore them while fending off other munchkins (well, except for the effect of the added weight on encumbrance). But if the above bbn attempts to grapple the dragon, perhaps he should succeed? And the dragon would simply ignore him? I'll need to consider this some more as there might be some kind of tactical advantage...
1. Depends on the item
2. From the magic section: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.
3. In order to do this, you must first disarm the opponent with a free hand. Once he is disarmed you of course would be armed with the weapon and could attack with it on a successful grapple check provided it is light or one handed (this will also take a standard action). Please note that if you are the "grappler" but don't spend the appropriate action to maintain the grapple then they are freed from it.
4. Pinned no longer allows for silencing your opponent.
5. Maintaining a pin is a standard action and you can not take away their items. Also while pinning you lose your Dex bonus to AC, however your opponent is both flat footed and takes a -4 to AC.
6. Grappling doesn't have a size limit on it.
The following flowcharts could be very useful to you I think:
1. Depends on the item
2. From the magic section: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.
3. In order to do this, you must first disarm the opponent with a free hand. Once he is disarmed you of course would be armed with the weapon and could attack with it on a successful grapple check provided it is light or one handed (this will also take a standard action). Please note that if you are the "grappler" but don't spend the appropriate action to maintain the grapple then they are freed from it.
4. Pinned no longer allows for silencing your opponent.
5. Maintaining a pin is a standard action and you can not take away their items. Also while pinning you lose your Dex bonus to AC, however your opponent is both flat footed and takes a -4 to AC.
6. Grappling doesn't have a size limit on it.
The following flowcharts could be very useful to you I think:
Oh you have to use a Standard Action to maintain a grapple and can only take specific actions in conjunction with that? That I did not know.
I guess I will add using an opponent's weapon and taking an item from them as extra options along with maintaining the grapple, since it's reasonable to do so. I will add preventing the enemy from speaking to the pinned, because it makes sense to do so for those who're assassin-types and need to sneak on an enemy and take them down quietly before they call out an alarm.
I'll have to adjudicate the rest. I am surprised Pathfinder took OUT options from grappling instead of keeping them in but just simplifying the procedure.
Any word about creatures of different sizes in a grapple. Different by two or more sizes.
One on one its a gimp fight, but three goblins riding a ogre to the ground. The ogre could toss the little suckers for yardage.
Special attack: Throw goblin
2. From the magic section: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand...
I have my doubts about this part - and believe there may be some copy-paste error from 3.5 in the RAW. The description of somatic components for spells says you must be able to gesture freely with one hand. The description of grappled says you can do anything that only requires one free hand. Sounds to me like you can, in fact, cast spells with a somatic component while grappled...and that's the way I've been ruling it until I find something other than that note in the magic section about not being able to cast spells with somatic components while grappled. Seems contradicted by other rules passages. Anyone seen anything official on this?
M
In order to do something freely you MUST succeed on a grapple check first mearring69, this is specific from the grapple section too:
"If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details."
Also the grappled condition:
"A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit."
I wasn't arguing that you don't (though your post brings up some other issues, below)...I was pointing out that the rules seem contradictory about whether you can or cannot cast a spell that requires a somatic component while grappled. Also, I don't dispute that you have to make a concentration check to cast a spell while grappled, as the rules are pretty clear on that matter.
Since you bring it up, I want to note that I don't read "Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform..." as meaning you have to succeed on a grapple check to do the things that follow that introduction. I read that whole bit you quoted as 'You can make a grapple check to break free or reverse the grapple. Or, you can do some other stuff (without making a grapple check).'
M
Sorry I was trying to argue, just show where the confusion might be. That passage should have probably used commas instead of periods in a few places.