Converting the Oriental Adventures Samurai


Conversions

Grand Lodge

I've never actually cared for the Complete Warrior version of the Samurai. It just didn't sit well with me. Even with the Dead Levels update they got.

The nice thing about the OA Samurai was you could build it like a monk, where you chose what kind of Samurai it was (ie Lion, Crab, Dragon, Phoenix, etc) and that dictated the bonus feats you took. And you could talk to the DM regarding other feats that would fit as well, when the newer books came out. The 3.5 update for it made it so that at lvl 4, a Samurai counted as honorable or lawful when wielding their weapon. As well, their weapon could be upgraded by sacrificing items and not having to sell it for half price and then upgrade it with gold later. Book of Exalted Deeds has a feat like this as well for ancestral weapons. Again, a player and DM could talk about what ancestral weapon they had. It didn't always have to be a katana and wakizashi.

The main aspect that I liked about the fact that it had two strong saves; Fort and Will. As well, it also has 4+INT for skills. The CW version is built like a fighter. Actually, it's built like a weak fighter. I never did understand why it has Concentration for a skill, and unless you're "The Shadow" trying to figure what lies in the hears of men, you demoralizing everyone isn't all that impressive. And Improved Initiative at 8th level? Kind of late in the game for that one.

The only thing I didn't like was the Samurai having a dead level at 20th. That sucks. No matter how you look at it. I've talked to a lot of people and they have a problem with that for the Pathfinder cleric as well.

So I decided I'd build a PF version of it for anyone that liked the fighter, but didn't get the 4+INT that they thought they'd get. Also, if the Warblade can take Fighter feats, the Samurai should be able to as well.

The Samurai

Alignment: Any lawful
HD d10
Skills Point 4+INT
Skills: Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nobility), Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Swim (3.5 they would have Jump).
Full BAB, strong Fort and Will.
Code of Conduct: Buishido

Warrior Aptitude: Qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if they had a fighter level equal to their samurai level -2.
Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons and bastard sword. Can wear light and medium armor. Any armour heavier than leather affects skills as per normal penalties.

Ancentral Daisho: 1st level as per Ancestral Relic in BoED page 40-41.
Ancestral Daisho (lawful): At 4th level, weapons wielded by Samurai count as lawful to get past DR.
Bonus Feats: Gained at levels 2nd, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th.
Kiai Smite: Gained at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th.
Bravery (as per the PF Fighter): Gained at 2nd, 8th, 14th, 20th.
Armor Training (as per the PF Fighter): 5th, 11th, 17th
Weapon Mastery (as per the PF Fighter): 20th (choose Ancestral Weapon)


I was always under the impression an intelligent combination of the CW and OA Samurais would be better than either individually.

Grand Lodge

At 1st level, you'd normally choose what type of Samurai you are (much like you'd choose what type of dragon you'd be with the Dragon Shaman).

Again, these feats are mostly just from the OA book (I added a few that I thought would fit). The DM and player could easily add more feats to these lists. Originally the skill Iaijutsu Focus existed, but it's now gone. It was basically a skill version of the Critical Focus tree and Deadly Aim. Anywhere that I've found Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus), I've replaced it accordingly. The same for Ki Shout and Greater Ki Shout. As well, "katana" represents bastard sword.

Crab - Emphasize heavy armor, great strength, and unusual weapons.
Feats: Armor Proficiency (heavy), Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Endurance, Power Attack (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Sunder, Great Cleave), Run, Weapon Focus (battleaxe, greatclub, katana, or warhammer), Catch-Off Guard (Throw Anything, Improvised Weapon Mastery).

Crane - Emphasize speed and agility.
Feats: Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Critical Focus (Bleeding Critical), Deadly Aim, Toughness, Weapon Focus (katana), Nimble Moves, Weapon Finesse.

Dragon - Teaches two-weapon fighting and unarmed combat.
Feats: Improved Grapple (Choke Hold), Improved Unarmed Strike (Defensive Throw, Deflect Arrows, Grappling Block, Great Throw, Stunning Fist, Snatch Arrows), Power Attack (Cleave), Weapon Focus (katana), Two-Weapon Fighting (Double Slice, Two-Weapon Rend, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense).

Lion - Emphasize strategy, intelligence, and strength of will.
Feats: Endurance, Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Intimidating Prowess, Lunge, Diehard, Toughness, Weapon Focus (katana), Dazzling Display (Shatter Defenses), Persuasive, Vital Strike.

Phoenix - Emphasize mental and spiritual training.
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (katana).

Scorpion - Emphasize mobility and dirty fighting.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Combat Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Initiative, Prone Attack, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (katana), Improved Unarmed Strike (Scorpion Style, Gorgon's Fist, Medusa's Wrath), Vital Strike.

Unicorn - Emphasize mounted combat and archery.
Feats: Alertness, Deadly Aim, Mounted Combat (Mounted Archery, Trample, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge), Point Blank Shot (Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run), Weapon Focus (spear, lance, bow, or katana).

Grand Lodge

Cartigan wrote:
I was always under the impression an intelligent combination of the CW and OA Samurais would be better than either individually.

As did I. The problem was no one came up with one. The problem I'm looking at though is whether this is the least bit balanced or not.


That's interesting. I wasn't familiar with Oriental Adventures or Complete Warrior, so the version I developed was more or less from scratch.

What I came up with was more like a Ranger, in that you'd take a combat style, and get bonus feats in line with that style. There were four styles: Iaijutsu (sword-drawing), Kenjutsu (sword-fighting), Sojutsu (spear-fighting), and Kyujutsu (Archery). At 11th level, each of these would evolve into Battojutsu (cutting), Nitojutsu (two-swords), Naginatajutsu (Glaive), and Yabusame (mounted archery). In addition, you would gain advancement in Bushido at intervals, which are mental bonuses and abilities - one allowed you to subtract from your AC to add to your attack rolls, showing the samurai's defiance of injury or death in the face of making a perfect strike. The capstone ability is called "Sword Saint", in which the samurai's body and martial spirit reach a level of perfect unity - as a free action, the sword saint can intimidate up to their hit dice in enemies, one attack each round is an automatic critical that deals attribute damage in addition to regular damage, etc.

There are also penalties for being a ronin, due to the mental toll of being masterless in a class that is defined by loyalty.

Grand Lodge

Lyingbastard wrote:

There are also penalties for being a ronin, due to the mental toll of being masterless in a class that is defined by loyalty.

Yeah, there's penalties for these Samurai classes as well, but most people don't care because they weren't getting much of anything to begin with. It's why the Kensai PrC is so cool to take.


kevin_video wrote:
Lyingbastard wrote:

There are also penalties for being a ronin, due to the mental toll of being masterless in a class that is defined by loyalty.

Yeah, there's penalties for these Samurai classes as well, but most people don't care because they weren't getting much of anything to begin with. It's why the Kensai PrC is so cool to take.

Kensai PRC?

For us, I think it was a -2 to STR, WIS, and CHA for being completely masterless; having a non-noble master (ie yakuza oyabun or similar type) reduces the penalties to -1.

Grand Lodge

Lyingbastard wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Lyingbastard wrote:

There are also penalties for being a ronin, due to the mental toll of being masterless in a class that is defined by loyalty.

Yeah, there's penalties for these Samurai classes as well, but most people don't care because they weren't getting much of anything to begin with. It's why the Kensai PrC is so cool to take.

Kensai PRC?

For us, I think it was a -2 to STR, WIS, and CHA for being completely masterless; having a non-noble master (ie yakuza oyabun or similar type) reduces the penalties to -1.

Sorry, not a Kensai, a Ronin. Both are prestige classes. Kensai is the perfect Samurai prestige, but Ronin is what you take if your oath is broken. They're also in the Complete Warrior. You essentially become very roguish.

When a samurai stops being on, they lose all features that depend Charisma or Charisma-based checks.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber

I like what i see just a couple of quick query's
- have you consider the samurai writeup in Guide to Rokugan for adiitional inspriration its slightly different to the oriental adventures; when i was wrting up a set of npcs for a rokugan style game i liked the look of it over the other versions
- you have given the class the swim skill to replace jump from 3.5; would it not work better if they had acrobatics;

it short it looks good, very good now I just need yo talk my DM round

Grand Lodge

mongrall wrote:

I like what i see just a couple of quick query's

- have you consider the samurai writeup in Guide to Rokugan for adiitional inspriration its slightly different to the oriental adventures; when i was wrting up a set of npcs for a rokugan style game i liked the look of it over the other versions
- you have given the class the swim skill to replace jump from 3.5; would it not work better if they had acrobatics;

it short it looks good, very good now I just need yo talk my DM round

I'll have to look up the Rokugan version because I'd never heard of that.

I actually didn't add the swim skill to replace jump. It was always there in the OA version. Acrobatics wasn't given to the Fighter or Ranger, so no. It's just one of those things that is gone. If, however, the class had Balance or Tumble, then yes. It seems that as long as they have 2/3 of what became Acrobatics, they get it.

EDIT: Did you mean the Merchant's Guide to Rokugan? I just found that. I'll look through it.

Grand Lodge

Found it. The Oriental Adventures version. Got that now.

In reference to your earlier question, yes you could totally add or take away from what's here to fit what you feel would work better. The skills aren't part of Pathfinder so I don't see them getting added back in (ie Battle and Tea Ceremony), but you could totally add in the other clans like Badger, Centipede, Dragonfly, Falcon, Fox, Mantis, and the like. It's like the monk's schools, or the ranger's combat styles. There's more than one book that lists different the types you can choose from. Some will of course change significantly (ie Skill Focus [Move Silently, Hide]) based on what the game is now, but sure.

But the basics are still the same. The Ancestral Daisho I'll keep as is because it takes money, not XP, and I know a lot of DMs that don't like lowering their player's levels when they're getting stronger weapons in return. Especially considering the amount of XP you get from an encounter.


Ryokugan was originated as a LR5 system, it is the setting that OA is based on and the campaign book is very interesting also some side books that are of interest are the way of the samurai, and one for each of the clans, also magic of Ryokugan. All are interesting I have run campaigns based out of it and I am currently working on building PF versions for each of the classes, I was never very happy with the complete book's idea for the OA classes. Still your write up seems interesting.

Grand Lodge

TheJew wrote:
Ryokugan was originated as a LR5 system, it is the setting that OA is based on and the campaign book is very interesting also some side books that are of interest are the way of the samurai, and one for each of the clans, also magic of Ryokugan. All are interesting I have run campaigns based out of it and I am currently working on building PF versions for each of the classes, I was never very happy with the complete book's idea for the OA classes. Still your write up seems interesting.

Yeah I read through the book when it was brought up to me, and it's not half bad. The 3.0 conversion looked well balanced, but the actual OA book seemed to hold up better when it came to the ancestral weapons getting upgraded.

Thank you.


I did a complete samurai rebuild at www.mediafire.com/ElghinnLightbringer. Take a look and take or leave it. use ideas, whatever. Have fun.

Dark Archive

Elghinn Lightbringer very nice makeover of the samurai

IMHO I think you can make a Samurai from the cavalier class just take out the Cavalier orders and switch them for samurai clans. You could even further the conversion switching the animal companion for something else. Just use the cavalier class and adapt it.

You could also just use the OA samurai as it is and just make a TRUE conversion period.

Before someone even say ninja use use the rogue as base class and change some rogue talents for some ninja talents or something.


Deiros wrote:

Elghinn Lightbringer very nice makeover of the samurai

IMHO I think you can make a Samurai from the cavalier class just take out the Cavalier orders and switch them for samurai clans. You could even further the conversion switching the animal companion for something else. Just use the cavalier class and adapt it.

You could also just use the OA samurai as it is and just make a TRUE conversion period.

Before someone even say ninja use use the rogue as base class and change some rogue talents for some ninja talents or something.

I also think the Cavalier is a fantastic fit for making a samurai, especially seeing as they were the mounted cavalry of japan. Some tweaks might be needed but they are a perfectly moldable with their orders.

As for ninjas vs rogues, I personally think that ninjas are to rogues as paladins are to fighters. That is, they accomplish the same goals with spiritual methods rather than conventional methods. You can make a ninja from the rogue class, but it doesn't really capture the ninjas that you see in Ninja Scroll or Tenchu or the Shinobi game series.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The vast majority of ninja are not spiritual. They might learn mystical disciplines, but that's like saying a mage is spiritual. Ninjas are assassins, theives, spies and sabotuers, same as any rogue...they just don't have the chaotic bent that rogues in the west do.

==Aelryinth


I think its debatable, but ... holy crap! ninjas are jacking this thread! they are so devious!

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