Emanations and the Big Guys


Rules Questions


Quick question about antimagic field. Is it completely useless for something Colossal? It's a 10 foot emanation centered on the caster, but a colossal creature is larger than the field. The real question is - for larger than medium creatures does it emanate from the center or the edge of the creature?


From edge of creature.
Otherwise a 5' radius aura on a Medium creature wouldn't even cover all of the adjacent squares to them, which is silly.
(figuring ANY 5'-increment radius based on center of a 5' square is messy because it ends up with half-square perimeters, which is why radii are calculated from intersections or edges of squares [or given in diameters])

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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OK! Hit "post" too fast on my first attempt and it had some goofs. So I deleted it. Let's try that again.

From page 214's discussion on area. For an emanation, you pick the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point. This is a grid intersection.

For an antimagic sphere, which has a radius of 5 feet, you pick a grid intersection and the effect emanates from that intersection for 5 feet. This gives you four squares of protection (see the "5-foot radius" spell area on page 215.) If you're Large or smaller, you can comfortably exist inside your spell's area. If you're bigger, part of you will stick out.

Allowing an emanation to extend from the edge of a creature's space makes such spells more powerful the bigger you get, and since magic doesn't really care how big its spellcaster is, that's kinda weird.


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James Jacobs wrote:

From page 214's discussion on area. For an emanation, you pick the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point. This is a grid intersection.

For an antimagic sphere, which has a radius of 5 feet, you pick a grid intersection and the effect emanates from that intersection for 5 feet. This gives you four squares of protection (see the "5-foot radius" spell area on page 215.) If you're Large or smaller, you can comfortably exist inside your spell's area. If you're bigger, part of you will stick out.

Ok this unfortunately brings up the issue of facing which few game systems cover (really I can only think of Rolemaster). If I have antimagic on a given point (corner of my space, right ankle, whatever) and turn then the antimagic would move too, but there are no rules for what action it is to turn. Obviously the rules intend you to be constantly in motion as you get shield bonus against the guy behind you and can make AoO's, so can I move the antimagic to block attacks and spells? This still wouldn't work against area spells, but should stop directed spells and magic weapon abilities.

The other option to make it useful for a colossal dragon is to cast 8 or 9 of them. Damned third dimension.


it doesn't suffer from that problem at all, because it has nothing to do with your 'facing' when you cast the spell you chose a corner of your square, the spell effect will always emanate from that corner of your square. it is not emanating from your ankle which is moving around the square, it is emanating from the corner of your square chosen at the time of casting.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Enkili wrote:
Ok this unfortunately brings up the issue of facing which few game systems cover (really I can only think of Rolemaster). If I have antimagic on a given point (corner of my space, right ankle, whatever) and turn then the antimagic would move too, but there are no rules for what action it is to turn. Obviously the rules intend you to be constantly in motion as you get shield bonus against the guy behind you and can make AoO's, so can I move the antimagic to block attacks and spells? This still wouldn't work against area spells, but should stop directed spells and magic weapon abilities.

For antimagic, which moves with the caster, this just means that those four squares "tag along" with you as you move. You can decide which four squares they are as you need to. Easy!


James Jacobs wrote:
For antimagic, which moves with the caster, this just means that those four squares "tag along" with you as you move. You can decide which four squares they are as you need to. Easy!

Thanks for the help.

I love you James, and the entire staff of Paizo, but you the most.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Enkili wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
For antimagic, which moves with the caster, this just means that those four squares "tag along" with you as you move. You can decide which four squares they are as you need to. Easy!

Thanks for the help.

I love you James, and the entire staff of Paizo, but you the most.

Awww... thanks! :)


Talking about big guys and anti-magic aura or other area effects.

Would a colossal dragon be able to use a magic item if he resides even 5' inside a AMF? Would he suffer from a grease effect square if only the left toe of his colossal feet touches the greased square? Or do XxY squared creatures only suffer 1/X*Y chance of the effect?

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

James Jacobs wrote:

From page 214's discussion on area. For an emanation, you pick the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point. This is a grid intersection.

For an antimagic sphere, which has a radius of 5 feet, you pick a grid intersection and the effect emanates from that intersection for 5 feet. This gives you four squares of protection (see the "5-foot radius" spell area on page 215.) If you're Large or smaller, you can comfortably exist inside your spell's area. If you're bigger, part of you will stick out.

Which is why the Widen Spell feat becomes extra important for creatures that are larger than Large :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

At what point do you check the four square's positioning?

Could I say it's on my left, where the enemy wizard is, stab him in the face (bypassing all his magical defenses), and then switch it to my right for when I use my iterative attacks to sunder the barbarian's formerly magical axe?


I would say you place the emanation A) when first cast, and B) when ever you move since emanations move with the caster.

But if you aren't moving, I probably wouldn't let you shift the area of the emanation.


Ravingdork wrote:
At what point do you check the four square's positioning?
James Jacobs wrote:
For antimagic, which moves with the caster, this just means that those four squares "tag along" with you as you move. You can decide which four squares they are as you need to. Easy!


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ipslore, so basically, it might as well extend 10-feet in all directions from the caster regardless of the caster's size then?

The Exchange

I think he's saying you have to decide which 10x10 square within your grid it occupies, and can't swap it between turns. Of course, the only way an enemy's going to find out which 10x10 area is involved is to cast spells into it, unless house rules allow detect magic to see the "even emptier" area...

Silver Crusade

There appears to be an update in the spell, but I am not sure it answers the specific question. PRD link

Spoiler:
PRD wrote:

ANTIMAGIC FIELD

School abjuration; Level cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (pinch of powdered iron or iron filings)
Range 10 ft.
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance see text
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell's duration.

Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures' spell-like or supernatural abilities may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field. Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.

The last line about creature larger than the field doesn't specify where the field is. But note! It is a 10-foot radius emanation. 20 feet across. Large sized creatures should feel safe.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

ooh, the area got bigger. Large, Huge and Gargantuan creatures should be able to exist comfortably in their Antimagic field now.

I still think emanations centered on you should radiate out and at least cover your squares.
Magic might not care how big you are, but big casters should at least be able to get the same minimal benefit from a spell. A dragon who's area extends outside of his antimagic field might as well not cast it. its not that it becomes way more powerful, it just becomes useless.

The Exchange

Darn, a weakness that only Colossal creatures have. How tragic.

The main objection to 'emanates from every point of the creature' I can think of is that it would rationally also apply to natural attacks made beyond the radius of the 'emanation' - here I am particularly thinking of kraken and their ultra-long reach, though I'm sure others apply.


Well, as long as the dragon points his AMF to the side he's going to have attacks coming at him from, he still gets the benifits of it for at least a round or two while the casters find out that they're going to have to get clever about their casting angles.

A -really- smart dragon will have set up traps or minions to cover those extra angles.

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