Protection from Evil v. Dominate Person


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

My group had this come up in game tonight and we had two different interpretations of the Protection spell so I wanted to get it clarified here.

Scenario: PC already has Protection from Evil on him. PC then gets targeted with Dominate Person spell. Does he need to make a save to avoid being dominated or is he immune to the effect?

Thanks!


Per the spell description:
"While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target...this second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects"
So of the caster of the dominate was evil then the PC would be immune, otherwise if the caster was neutral or good he would have to make a save.


He will not be affected by any current effect, if it originated from an evil spell or evil caster for as long as Protection from Evil lasts.

He does not need to make any saving throws against a new effect, if it originated from an evil spell or evil caster for as long as Protection from Evil lasts.

The last line of the third paragraph is slightly confusing, "This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion." That line applies to the entire second paragraph.

The sentence, "While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target.", does indeed mean utter immunity (vs. Evil). Basically, Protection from Evil prevents evil getting 'hooks' on your mind, but can't break a hook already created, only block the influence.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Githzilla wrote:

My group had this come up in game tonight and we had two different interpretations of the Protection spell so I wanted to get it clarified here.

Scenario: PC already has Protection from Evil on him. PC then gets targeted with Dominate Person spell. Does he need to make a save to avoid being dominated or is he immune to the effect?

Thanks!

The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC.


James Jacobs wrote:
The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC.

James: This is how I thought it was...thanks. But would it be fair for the actual save to be made at the time the Protection ran out, vs. when the spell was cast and there was nothing to resist, per se, because of the protection?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Carpjay wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC.
James: This is how I thought it was...thanks. But would it be fair for the actual save to be made at the time the Protection ran out, vs. when the spell was cast and there was nothing to resist, per se, because of the protection?

The save should be made when the spell is cast. This not only allows the target to gain the advantage to saves granted by protection from evil, but also keeps the GM from having to deal with the additional bookwork of keeping track of delayed effects.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for the answers everyone. That clears it up for sure!


@James Jacobs:

"While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target."

How does this interact with what you said:

Quote:
The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC.

I'd read the first quotation to mean that attempts to dominate cannot be made.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Yeah, I'm with LoreKeeper on this one.

If you're immune to an attempt to dominate you, why would you need to make a save? It's not like the dominate would still be hanging around waiting for the protection from evil effect to end.

Now, if the origin were non-evil, then it makes perfect sense. The OP didn't say, but I'm assuming the source was evil.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

PfE doesn't make you immune to Domination, it makes you immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control (the effect of Domination).

The spell can still affect you but its effects are neutralized by Protection from Evil.


I still disagree:

Sure, no domination (exercising mental control) will happen - but I'm also "immune to any new attempts to possess" me. I'm pretty sure Domination (the spell) attempts to possess my mind as a conduit to exercise mental control over me.

Sovereign Court

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Nope. "Possesion" in this instance is a referrence to the Magic Jar spell and similar abilities by evil outsiders. Dominate Person doesn't "posses" you at all, just supresses your will and forces you to obey the caster.

PfE doesn't stop the spell at all, it stops the caster from issuing any commands. It also stops the caster of Magic Jar from hopping into your body.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Good point. Good old English language.

So I agree then - under the assumption that "the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target" means:

The target is immune to both:

(a) new attempts to possess the target (e.g. possession such as magic jar, though it would equally apply to Paizo's nifty possession rules from Council of Thieves/The Infernal Syndrome)

(b) new attempts to exercise mental control (i.e. someone can cast dominiate at you, and even succeed, but they can't use it because they're blocked by protection from evil).

Makes sense to me, and it's in keeping with protection from evil's rules about how it suppresses existing effects without removing them (and even then, only if you make a second save).

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

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Hmmmm, what if another character, with a 10' magic circle against evil, runs up to a dominated person, bringing them inside the circle. Is the dominate neutralised as long as they are inside the radius? (Assuming they make the save this time)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I believe they would receive a new save at a +2 bonus would they not? We had this come up the other week and that is how we worked it.

Sovereign Court

carborundum wrote:

Hmmmm, what if another character, with a 10' magic circle against evil, runs up to a dominated person, bringing them inside the circle. Is the dominate neutralised as long as they are inside the radius?

Yes.

Back in 2nd ed D&D, when the paladin's protective aura was identical to Protection from Evil 10'r, this happened a lot in my group.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
LoreKeeper wrote:

@James Jacobs:

"While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target."

How does this interact with what you said:

Quote:
The PC would still need to make the save to avoid being dominated. If he fails, even though the dominate person spell affects him, the dominator wouldn't be able to control him. If the dominate person spell effect lasts longer than the protection from evil effect, though, then the dominator can immediately start controlling the PC.
I'd read the first quotation to mean that attempts to dominate cannot be made.

Establishing a dominate effect is not an "attempt to control or possess," technically. Only when the dominator tries to issue a command does it bump up against and get defeated by protection from evil.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
carborundum wrote:

Hmmmm, what if another character, with a 10' magic circle against evil, runs up to a dominated person, bringing them inside the circle. Is the dominate neutralised as long as they are inside the radius? (Assuming they make the save this time)

As long as both are in the radius of the circle, an evil dominator can't issue commands to his slave.


Oh oh! Yes, stinker me. So no save required vs. magic jar, but you would need a save vs. dominate person (though you still wouldn't be affected until the protection wore off).

Tricksy! Thanks James!

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