Where would you place Castle Ravenloft?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Hi there,

I want to run the "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft" adventure with Pathfinder. Has anyone tried this? And where should I place Strahd´s castle? My Golarion-Fu is very weak unfortunately...

I´m also very interested in your basic experiences with this module. :)

Blood

Dark Archive

I've not played it personally since 2E but I would stick it in Ustalav. That seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from Ravenloft and gothic horror in general.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yes, Ustalav definitely seems like the obvious (and probably best) choice.

Liberty's Edge

my frist thought would be Ustalav, yes...
but there are 2 reasons why i would chose other place...

a) Wes mentioned the region is more like preindustrial england... meaning a lot more advanced in culture or technology than than Barovia

b) its too damn obvious... which is both a curse and a blessing...
the mood is already there... but its also what players would be expecting

PD: is a shame you have the Expedition one... its a loss... you should try checking the 2nd edition one

I myself might run it in ustalav... but i like to think of Ustalav more like 19th Transilvania, qhich is not too diferent from barovia... yet in Alba Lulia they already had an university...

for a Twist put it either in Taldor or the River kingdoms... anyplace with a nice range of mountains...

why?

[spoilers]Castle Ravenloft was constructed after Strahd conquered the land, he came from somewhere else... I might even make him of Azlani or Taldor descent, he conquered the place and after his family came...

the population is based on Slavs so it might either be varisians (which makes ustalav perfect) or ulfen...

Barovia is a land that had feed in countless blood... which will make the River kingdoms perfect,a kingdom forgotten by those who supported Sthrad decades, centuries, milenia ago.... and now Sthrad is master of his small ploy of land...[/spoilers]

Scarab Sages

Ustalav is probably the most obvious choice, but I think that Nidal would be a good contender as well. Forest primeval, mountains, undead within the ruling classes... It would serve pretty well.


Or just set it in Barovia? Even if the campaign is set in Golarion, the mists of Ravenloft are far reaching...

Of course, then they'd be stuck there.


Mordraith wrote:

Or just set it in Barovia? Even if the campaign is set in Golarion, the mists of Ravenloft are far reaching...

Of course, then they'd be stuck there.

No, they wouldn't. The GM could rule a a conjunction to occur, aligning the two planes once again, ala The weekend In Hell option (Ravenloft DMG, pg 22).


I'd put Strahd's castle on the Positive Energy Plane. It's the only way to be sure.

What?

Dark Archive

Or you could put it on the other side of the mountain range near Scarwall - a remote eastern part of The Hold of Belkzen overlooking the Shudderwood to the east.

He (Strahd) could have easily been a general in Kazavons army from 700 years prior. Carved out his own small realm and given his just reward of undeath for his betrayal to humanity - maybe he was one of Kazavons personal hatchet men loyal and involved in many of his persecutions

After the fall of Scarwall he could have retreated to his own Castle Ravenloft and successfully repelled any marauding forces from Belkzen - since the orcs were already afraid of Scarwall and what happned there it would make sense that they would avoid Ravenloft for the same reason. As time has gone by, more and more of Strahds own people died under his rule and thirst for blood

So you have your remote mountains (bad rep, orcs avoid area), and remote woods (bad rep) in the lowlands.

Dark Archive

Auxmaulous wrote:

Or you could put it on the other side of the mountain range near Scarwall - a remote eastern part of The Hold of Belkzen overlooking the Shudderwood to the east.

This would actually be my second choice.


First thought: Ustalav.

Second thought: Varisia.

If you want pious gypsies to warn the pcs away from the castle and other Stoker-esque and east-european embellishments, Varisia would work quite well.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Montalve wrote:

my frist thought would be Ustalav, yes...

but there are 2 reasons why i would chose other place...

a) Wes mentioned the region is more like preindustrial england...

Wow, I find this surprising, I did not get that vibe from Ustalav at all.

Dark Archive

Ustalav. Plenty of choices, but I think Castle Odranto would be a good candidate! >:)

Shadow Lodge

Lathiira wrote:

I'd put Strahd's castle on the Positive Energy Plane. It's the only way to be sure.

What?

You want Strahd to be even more powerful? Interesting.


Wow, overwhelming chores for Ustalav.

BTW the group is in west Andoran right now, close to the coast and the border to Cheliax. It would be ideal if I could place it not too far away since they´re already at the supposed level for the adventure. Although im ok with skipping some traveling.


Montalve, is the 2nd edition module that much better than the 3rd edition one?


Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Mordraith wrote:

Or just set it in Barovia? Even if the campaign is set in Golarion, the mists of Ravenloft are far reaching...

Of course, then they'd be stuck there.

No, they wouldn't. The GM could rule a a conjunction to occur, aligning the two planes once again, ala The weekend In Hell option (Ravenloft DMG, pg 22).

Oh, tell me more, he he.

My vote goes to Lastwall, he he.

Liberty's Edge

Brevoy is a good choice too, the nation has a very Russian/Slavic flavor, though Ustalav would be my first choice.

Liberty's Edge

He Who Walks in Blood wrote:
Montalve, is the 2nd edition module that much better than the 3rd edition one?

I'd actually go a bit more old school and reccomend you at least check out the original First Edition AD&D version - it really is a masterpeice.


Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Mordraith wrote:

Or just set it in Barovia? Even if the campaign is set in Golarion, the mists of Ravenloft are far reaching...

Of course, then they'd be stuck there.

No, they wouldn't. The GM could rule a a conjunction to occur, aligning the two planes once again, ala The weekend In Hell option (Ravenloft DMG, pg 22).

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft isn't set in the Ravenloft Campaign Setting, it's set in whatever setting you need it to be in. Default is assumed to be Greyhawk, but the EtCR book also gives suggestions for Forgotten Realms and D20 Modern. No mention of the Dread Realm is made in the book. It could be used there, but it's kind of low-level if Strahd is a Darklord, and compared to floor plans I've seen of Castle Ravenloft in materials for the Ravenloft Campaign Setting, the castle is a fair bit smaller too.

In Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, Barovia is the town, not the country, so the original poster is pretty much looking for a country in which to place the town of Barovia.

I'm running Expedition to Castle Ravenloft presently in Ustalav with PRPG rules as my alternate game for my two most dependable players when the other players in our 3.5e Cormyr game don't show up.

My biggest complaints with Expedition to Castle Ravenloft are 1.) Madame Eva is a annis hag in it instead of a human Vistani. 2.) There's no Concluding the Adventure section to the book. It just cuts off at the last fight and the rest of the book is supplemental materials.

So I guess I have another vote for Ustalav: Fog-shrouded Realm of Gothic Horror. (That's the by-line for Ustalav in the Campaign Setting, anyway.)


Wolf Munroe wrote:
My biggest complaints with Expedition to Castle Ravenloft are 1.) Madame Eva is a annis hag in it instead of a human Vistani. 2.) There's no Concluding the Adventure section to the book. It just cuts off at the last fight and the rest of the book is supplemental materials.

I've played this module 2 years ago and it was really fun.

Point 1 was not a problem, I found it was a smart change as it makes Madame Eva less a wise old conselor and more an ambiguous ally that befrineds with my enemy.

Point 2 was not a problem too as we never reached the end of the adventure ...

Dark Archive

He Who Walks in Blood wrote:
Montalve, is the 2nd edition module that much better than the 3rd edition one?

The original 1st edition Ravenloft was perhaps the best of the Ravenloft modules. It easily stands up to the test of time and I would easily put in my top 10 modules of all time, any game genere.

My two cps.

Here is a link to some old free Ravenloft mods. (This is the WotC site, funny I have not been on thier page in nearly a year, and then it was just to look up previews for Star Wars mini releases. Go halfway down the page to see the Ravenloft mods.)

In my opinion, Ravenloft II House on Gryphon Hill is not as exceptional as the original, but a fun mod nonetheless.

Feast of Goblyns is a 2nd Ed era mod and one of the first created for the Ravenloft demi plane campaign line and is one of the best mods in that setting.

And you HAVE TO USE THE HARROW DECK if you put Ravenloft in Golarion!


I put ravenloft into the game as a demi-transitive plane that changes location.

Similar to the World Serpent Inn. Info on the World serpent Inn is on WOTC site and there was a dragon magazine issue also for it.

The dragon issue had a general haze that prevents seeing everywhere in a room at the same time, carries very well into the whole ravenloft game....

Contributor

Not to criticize, but adventure-wise I'd go with the original before the remake. The original Ravenloft, or even its first revisitation House of Strahd, are both readily available on eBay and similar sites, typically for cheap, and remains an absolute blast to play through. The remake, far less appealing to me. Of course, I like the original version of the Wicker Man way more than the 2006 remake too, so to each his own I guess.

As for where to put Castle Ravenloft in Golarion, I asked myself that exact thing when writing about Ustalav. Turns out there's really two great options.

The county of Amaans is geographically probably most like Barovia, and it would be easy to drop the village of Barovia, Castle Ravenloft, and the surrounding lands into any of its misty valleys. The county also has at least one reference to a villainous vampire haunting its mountains in recent history, Viscount Galdyce, who may or may not have been defeated by Alison Kindler and companions in her adventuring days (and later novelized in her retirement; see Bestiary intro Pathfinder #8).

Varno is probably my personal first choice though, even though it has less potential for a direct port of the landscape. With a vampire's (Conte Tiriac) ages of secret rule, numerous ruins along the boarder with Razmiran and elsewhere in the county, and a population of superstitious peasants it'd be easy to place Castle Ravenloft amid these themes. I'm even slowly building my own homage to Ravenloft, Bastardhall, in this region. Tiriac's family home might also be a good fit.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Of course, I like the original version of the Wicker Man way more than the 2006 remake too...

Which shows you are a man of taste to be trusted in this matter.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Of course, I like the original version of the Wicker Man way more than the 2006 remake too...

Which shows you are a man of taste to be trusted in this matter.

+1

Dark Archive

Maybe instead of Scarwall? Is near gipsy Varisia, and isolated...


I got my hands on a copy of I6:Ravenloft and plan to convert to Pathfinder rules myself. I played it back in my AD&D days with Bugleyman as the DM. Fantastic module that unfortunately wiped us in the crypts. I'm going to be running this once converted for my current gaming group. Any suggestions for conversion to Pathfinder rules? There's a rather large leap from AD&D to Pathfinder.

Also, I have the Classic Horrors Revisited to aid me in modeling Strahd for the current ruleset and other items contained therein that should be very helpful. I can't wait to run my group through this, it really left an impression on me years ago.

Edit: Having played both the original AD&D I6 and a modified version of Expedition in D&D 3.0, I definitely believe the original was far better. The atmosphere alone is amazing.

Liberty's Edge

Davelozzi wrote:
Montalve wrote:

my frist thought would be Ustalav, yes...

but there are 2 reasons why i would chose other place...

a) Wes mentioned the region is more like preindustrial england...

Wow, I find this surprising, I did not get that vibe from Ustalav at all.

tehre is no much info on Ustalav.. but somewhere around the forums there is post from Wes (who created ustalav) and painted Ustalav like that..

certainly not my favorite way to look at it..unless you think of ... Johny Deep's and Christina Ricci's Sleepy Hollow, that is srot of air he painted for us

Liberty's Edge

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Not to criticize, but adventure-wise I'd go with the original before the remake. The original Ravenloft, or even its first revisitation House of Strahd, are both readily available on eBay and similar sites, typically for cheap, and remains an absolute blast to play through. The remake, far less appealing to me. Of course, I like the original version of the Wicker Man way more than the 2006 remake too, so to each his own I guess.

As for where to put Castle Ravenloft in Golarion, I asked myself that exact thing when writing about Ustalav. Turns out there's really two great options.

The county of Amaans is geographically probably most like Barovia, and it would be easy to drop the village of Barovia, Castle Ravenloft, and the surrounding lands into any of its misty valleys. The county also has at least one reference to a villainous vampire haunting its mountains in recent history, Viscount Galdyce, who may or may not have been defeated by Alison Kindler and companions in her adventuring days (and later novelized in her retirement; see Bestiary intro Pathfinder #8).

Varno is probably my personal first choice though, even though it has less potential for a direct port of the landscape. With a vampire's (Conte Tiriac) ages of secret rule, numerous ruins along the boarder with Razmiran and elsewhere in the county, and a population of superstitious peasants it'd be easy to place Castle Ravenloft amid these themes. I'm even slowly building my own homage to Ravenloft, Bastardhall, in this region. Tiriac's family home might also be a good fit.

excellent :D

and agreed, excellent taste :)

Liberty's Edge

He Who Walks in Blood wrote:
Montalve, is the 2nd edition module that much better than the 3rd edition one?

Expedition is less into the mood and more into the hack if I am correct... as Wes mentions below... its simply a wonderful story... full of mood... giaks.. the full castle gives the creeps!!! its not a place I would like to be :P

so wonderful it is :D


Montalve wrote:
He Who Walks in Blood wrote:
Montalve, is the 2nd edition module that much better than the 3rd edition one?

Expedition is less into the mood and more into the hack if I am correct... as Wes mentions below... its simply a wonderful story... full of mood... giaks.. the full castle gives the creeps!!! its not a place I would like to be :P

so wonderful it is :D

...Giaks? Now that would be a short, yet amusing, crossover.

Strahd: "I am the ancient. I am the land. You cannot defeat..."

Lone Wolf: *raises Sommerswerd and annihilates Strahd without a word*

Shadow Lodge

Just incase anyone is interested here is a Ravenloft podcast. Mirage Arcana #5

Grand Lodge

I6 remains the best adventure in D&D's publishing history. The Return to... was a bit of a let down and the Expedition to... is horrible. Most of the Ravenloft adventures were badly done though "Shadowbane Manor" and "Felkovic's Cat" were alright.

Ramius, if you're running I6, the only thing I would cut out is the red dragon. It is the only "my god, what were the 1st edition designers thinking?!" moment in the module.

Everything else you can run as is, just change the stat blocks.


baron arem heshvaun wrote:


Feast of Goblyns is a 2nd Ed era mod and one of the first created for the Ravenloft demi plane campaign line and is one of the best mods in that setting.

Completely agree! What a great ride full of rich detail Feast of Goblyns was. I recently downloaded it to take a look (who knows where my original is nowadays?) and had a great time just reminiscing running it.

The funny thing is I just ordered this morning from B&N online (some of their approved sellers anyway) The Ravenloft setting hardcover (Sword & Sorcery imprint for D20) and the 3.5 Expedition.

Should be fun to run a thematically adjusted version of Castle Ravenloft and some other classic material from the setting...if I ever get the chance.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Not to criticize, but adventure-wise I'd go with the original before the remake. The original Ravenloft, or even its first revisitation House of Strahd, are both readily available on eBay and similar sites, typically for cheap, and remains an absolute blast to play through. The remake, far less appealing to me.

While I agree, I have heard some okay things about Expedition and will definitely scour it for anything of use.

Quote:
Of course, I like the original version of the Wicker Man way more than the 2006 remake too, so to each his own I guess.

Cheers to that!

Contributor

Montalve wrote:
a) Wes mentioned the region is more like preindustrial england...
Davelozzi wrote:


Wow, I find this surprising, I did not get that vibe from Ustalav at all.
Montalve wrote:


certainly not my favorite way to look at it..unless you think of ... Johny Deep's and Christina Ricci's Sleepy Hollow, that is srot of air he painted for us

Where this applies: Yes. Exactly. Perfect. Obviously Ustalav is a hodgepodge of traditions, owing largely to the insular nature of the nobility, harsh wildernesses, superstitious peasantry, and a government that falters between ineffectual and non-existent. Canterwall and Varno are probably to the two most rural counties (with Ardeal and Barstoi coming in after largely for cultural reasons/failings), with Varno owing much to the traditions of rural medieval Italy (maybe even a bit of Greece and eastern Europe, with stories about witches and curses and strigoi and vrykolakas) and Canterwall owing much to rural England, with its moors and lonely estates (Iping, Dartmoor, even Sleepy Hollow - despite being in the U.S. - would fit in PERFECTLY here). Advancing and civilizing a bit, Caliphas is a bustling center of industry and trade, full of wonders and depravity, filth and splendor, black coaches and fog. Sherlock Holmes, Jack the Ripper, Dracula, Henry Jekyll, and secret fraternal orders all might feel right at home here.

Elsewhere we get a lot of French, German, Italian, and New English influences, as well as a few that are wholly fantastical. Remember, Ustalav and its people, as a country and a culture, have been traumatized but centuries of war, slavery, savagery, and genocide from inside the country and from without. Their society is insular, suspicious, and fractured, as the ways and traditions of the most powerful boyars - and those attracted to them for safety - have, for better or worse, prevailed. Thus, the ways of one people are not the ways of all the people of Ustalav. Dracula himself illustrates this best: "We are in Transylvania, and Transylvania is not England. Our ways are not your ways, and there shall be to you many strange things." In Ustalav, such is only too true.

Contributor

Montalve wrote:
tehre is no much info on Ustalav...

That will have changed by this time next year. But that's all I'm saying on that right now.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Montalve wrote:
tehre is no much info on Ustalav...
That will have changed by this time next year. But that's all I'm saying on that right now.

Cool, looking forward to it, he he.

Contributor

W E Ray wrote:
I6 remains the best adventure in D&D's publishing history. The Return to... was a bit of a let down and the Expedition to... is horrible. Most of the Ravenloft adventures were badly done though "Shadowbane Manor" and "Felkovic's Cat" were alright

Probably my favorites were "The Heart's Final Beat" from TSR Jam 1999, Carnivale (even though it wasn't an adventure), and strangely - just for the novelty of the CD and how B movie over the top terrible it is - A Light in the Belfry. Ravenloft also did a lot of little compilation adventure books, like the Children of the Night Series, Chilling Tales, and Book of Crypts, and there's some gems in those - though not many (ooof). My absolute favorite for over the top Ravenloft action are the suggestions for establishing mood in Chilling Tales, where - hold on, I have to actually go get this crazy s!~# - where in the "Terror Tip" on page 57 it honestly suggests you dress up in a dark cloak (or sheet!) and use face paint or a mask to make yourself look all spooooky, and when the players get there (letting themselves in apparently) you sit quietly then "ominously whisper, "You will never defeat me. Never! Remember this when at last you look on my face. By then it will be too late." Then you're supposed to get up, leave the room, and not mention any of that for the entire adventure. THEN, at the end when you kill the disguised demon boss, you're supposed to say that you all dressed up before was what the fiend looked like. LOL! OoooooOOOOOooooooh, scaaaaaary! I can't think of a scenario... none, not even with theater grade makeup or special effects for your entrance and disappearance, where this wouldn't come off ridiculous as hell.

So yeah, a lot of Ravenloft's adventures trip over themselves trying to establish a gothic moodiness they often don't seem to quite understand, but if you look at it as camp they can be a lot of fun. I love this setting, no doubt my all time fav, but at best, Ravenloft is a really good high school drama production of Dracula, usually its a B grade Hammer horror film, and at worse it's just silly. But snicker-worthy or actually moody, these old adventures can be a lot of fun.


Sigh...

I just (re)bought the old black setting boxed set off of ebay. Not bad for $24.95 (+ tax & shipping).

Personally, I blame you all for my financial follies =)

Also, I too am awaiting that Ustalav info and i do love hearing all these different reassurances in different threads lately, even as veiled and/or nonspecific as they may be.

Good news all around.

Grand Lodge

OMG, I forgot about "The Heart's Final Beat."

Excellent adventure. Though when I ran it I didn't put it in Ravenloft -- probably why I didn't think of it.

I also like the James Wyatt adventure, "Falls Run" though that's more of a 19th centure adventure (Masque of the Red Death) not a D&D / Ravenloft adventure.

Shadow Lodge

I do have to disagree about Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I think it was a fantastic remake, minus the "In FR" and "In Eberron" stuff.

It didn't focus or include any of White Wolf's Ravenloft material, which was a bit disappointing, but just my opinion. However, the updates, a few twists, and all the descriptions are fantastic. Walking through the crypts with little tidbits of history and a great many of the tomb markers written out was great.

It is all a matter of taste, though. I have all of them, and I think that Expedition does both hold up very well to the original, and also expands it out, but in a Ravenlofty tasteful manor.


I have run both versions, and everyone is right. The original was not a Ravenloft module, it was a Greyhawk module, so good that it inspired its own product line. And yes, it was that good.

However, the remake was well done, the detail was fantastic, and as far as converting to Pathfinder, the remake will take 10 minutes, the original would take ten weeks:)

So I'm sure you will have no trouble running the remake. It still captures the flavor very well. VERY WELL. And it doesn't really matter where you put it, as you say, it's a 'demi-plane', and can frankly go anywhere. With the only way out through the end of the adventure.

I have friends who still run the original every Halloween, going on 20 some years now. They tried converting it once, and not only was it too much work, it didn't really work very well, so they go back to 1st edition for that one night a year. Stick with the remake. Or go back to 1st edition for one night:)

Dark Archive

Dance of the Dead was my favorite Ravenloft novel. We never played any of the modules though, we always made up our own.

Liberty's Edge

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Montalve wrote:
there is no much info on Ustalav...
That will have changed by this time next year. But that's all I'm saying on that right now.

teaser... :P

well we will be waiting anxiously :P and hope for big and lots of it :P

Liberty's Edge

I was picturing Ustalav like Moravia from Quest For Glory IV.

On a side note, coolest Ravenloft setting thing I remember (besides Talon's artwork from Heroes of Light) is the nation that rewrites your memories while you are there.

Liberty's Edge

David Fryer wrote:
Dance of the Dead was my favorite Ravenloft novel. We never played any of the modules though, we always made up our own.

ohh yes!! that was an awesome book! I bought it used and I have no complains!

they had some very good stories... either the full books or the antology... would have wanted to know what happened to the barbaric redheaded paladin cursed with lycantropy...

Liberty's Edge

Coridan wrote:

I was picturing Ustalav like Moravia from Quest For Glory IV.

On a side note, coolest Ravenloft setting thing I remember (besides Talon's artwork from Heroes of Light) is the nation that rewrites your memories while you are there.

only thing that I trully hate from Darkon... gah!!

yes I remember that :P

soon you will never know you came from elsewhere.. you may even find toms for your lost ones... ahh yes.. the seat fo Domain of Azalin Rex...


I6 brings back an unforgettable memory of a halfling Rogue PC (an old friend) stabbing the Ranger PC (me) in the neck as he carried him on his shoulders to keep him above water in the sunken chambers.

The House of Strahd remake for 2E was fantastic IMHO.

We played some of the Expedition 3.5 remake right before one of my players moved to the west coast as an alternate game. I liked it. He later gave it to me as a parting gift in the off chance I wanted to run it at a later date.
While this was a great remake on its own, I would rather run it in Ustalav AND the Demi-plane of Dread. I would have the mists, the weird effects of some spells, powers checks (possibly), etc working in Ustalav.

As for the old Ravenloft module references, Feast of Goblyns was one of my favorite modules of all time, I ran this at least 3 times with different groups. Ship of Horror (RA2), Night of the Walking dead(RQ1), and Touch of Death (RA3?) were also well done.

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