Natural Spell and Spellcraft

[GamerLocke]

How would you rule Spellcrafting a spell cast by a druid with Natural Spell. Natural spell says:

"You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell."

My personal opinion is clouded by me not wanting a druid to get free spell-stealth but I also can understand non-druid spellcasters having difficulty in comprehending this type of spellcasting.

Now, without a debate of whether this feat is extremely broken or not, would you allow a fellow spellcaster, we'll say a wizard in this example, to be able to Spellcraft a spell cast by a druid through Natural Spell? And are there any rules stating one way or the other?

[Weirdo]

As far as I can tell, there is nothing in RAW that says it is more difficult for a wizard to Spellcraft a Natural Spell, any more than it is more difficult for a wizard to Spellcraft a druid spell in general. The magic is recognizable even when its exact form is altered.

Informally, my group does tend to treat Natural Spells as less immediately obvious to those who aren't trained in magic. The robed humanoid chanting and gesturing is clearly casting a spell. The hissing viper might instead be the familiar of an invisible spellcaster.

[VRMH]

Transformations usually give a +10 bonus to Disguise. So you could give the enemy a DC 10 Perception check to realise "That's no ordinary rabbit!" after which they can roll Spellcraft the usual way.

[Weirdo]

VRMH, sounds like a solid rule. Would you allow a druid trained in disguise to actually make a disguise check with a +10 bonus if they're planning on doing some stealthy casting? Or perhaps to use bluff for a bonus to the perception check to notice (don't mind me, I'm just a rabbit)?

[Shalmdi]

RAW? No penalties. There are no special rules that I am aware of regarding a penalty when a dragon casts a spell, and I doubt they would be using traditional hand motions. Heck, there are no penalties I am aware of for Still Spell and/or Silent Spell. If they choose to put no penalty there, I cannot justify one from Natural Spell on a RAW reading.

How would I rule it? Plus five to the DC of the Spellcraft check. This is just a quick ruling based on the line that Spellcraft checks take the same penalties as Perception checks. I would give the check the "Unfavorable Conditions" penalty so +5 to DC. I think anything more than that would be adding too much. That's my two copper.