Gjorbjond wrote:
That should only work if the eidolon is summoned with the Summon Eidolon spell, by RAW.
Sorry, I was solely in the realm of GM fiat.
knightofstyx wrote: Gjorbjond wrote:
That should only work if the eidolon is summoned with the Summon Eidolon spell, by RAW.
Sorry, I was solely in the realm of GM fiat. I cant see any situation where I would allow this to be applied to the normal summoning of an eidolon. It's like a character always having a constant effect Bears Endurance & Bulls Strength at the cost of one feat that they would already be getting anyway.
I don't think summoners need nerfing, in fact I think they are just about perfect right where they are but unneeded buffs to the class would do nothing short of creating an imbalance in party strength. That is unless you give other similar buffs to every other class.
Gjorbjond wrote: knightofstyx wrote: If anyone would like to play a summoner at my table, I allow augment summoning to be applied to the eidolon in addition to the SLA. /threadjack That should only work if the eidolon is summoned with the Summon Eidolon spell, by RAW. RAW where it regards this class is so convoluted and filled with exceptions that house rules seem either perfectly in place, or even smoother at times!
-James
Carbon D. Metric wrote: It's like a character always having a constant effect Bears Endurance & Bulls Strength at the cost of one feat that they would already be getting anyway.
Given the new rule of not being able to use the SLA summons when the Eidolon is out, I don't see augment summoning as a must have pair of feats for the summoner.
While it is worth it for a druid even if they don't plan to use the prereq feat, I think its gotten to the point with the summoner that they need to first justify the spell focus conjuration feat (which they can depending on PC design and spell choice) to make the augment summoning feat worth it.. even then it is by no means a stellar choice.
When are you going to get any mileage out of this feat?
-James
It states in the APG that any time the Summoner loses consciousness, for any reason i.e.: unconsciousness, falling asleep, magical sleep; or even leaving the same plane, his Eidolon is dismissed. It also states that the Eidolon Ritual can only be performed once per day.
When your summoner is roused for a night encounter, had his Eidolon banished, or has chosen to banish it for what ever reason, if he wants his Eidolon for any reason after this point he must rely on the Summon Eidolon spell.
This makes it very reasonable to have the Augment Summoning Feat.
It is very reasonable to believe that while wandering out in the wilderness that you will wake up, summon your Eidolon, and dismiss him when rest for the night. But if you have multiple encounters, say in a dungeon crawl, and it is dismissed after the 3rd encounter for any reason, how are you going to get it back for the last 2 encounters? Summon Eidolon.
What if you are in an Urban setting and it just isn't reasonable to have your Eidolon wandering around with you. I mean who really wants a Large/Huge creature, or a quadruped in an inn with the rest of the party. Summon Eidolon to the rescue when the inn erupts with assassins that are after the party.
Also, why would you use the 3-6th lvl summon monster spells if your Eidolon is already gone for the day? 2nd level Summon Eidolon is a bigger bang for your beasty buck and you can use the SLA Summon monster for a bigger better longer lasting summon. Plus you can sack a higher spell slot to cast a lesser spell or use meta magics on Summon Eidolon to get even more bang out of it.
Seems to be a lot of win there too.
Augment summoning works on anything you summon with:
-Your Summon Monster spells that you may choose to learn and cast as spells.
-Your Eidolon ONLY IF SUMMONED WITH THE SPELL Summon Eidolon
-Your Summoned Monsters from the spell like ability. This is because the devs say it works that way.
Augment summoning does NOT work on:
-Your Eidolon summoned via the 1 minute ritual.
Legion42 wrote: It states in the APG that any time the Summoner loses consciousness, for any reason i.e.: unconsciousness, falling asleep, magical sleep; or even leaving the same plane, his Eidolon is dismissed. Yes.
Quote: It also states that the Eidolon Ritual can only be performed once per day. No. There is no limit to the number of times a day you can summon your Eidolon via the ritual. If it is killed, you cannot summon it until the next day, however.
Since I seem to have started a firestorm around this topic, I guess I should at least give my reasonings.
1) My group doesn't min/max so the summoner is actually quite weak in this party (Rogue, Fighter, Oracle, Summoner, Monk - all stealth focused.)
2) The feat is "Augment Summoning". I'll be damned if I don't let it apply to every swinging tentacle the summoner, you know, summons.
3) *And perhaps the most important* My wife is playing the summoner. So I show a little bit of favoritism. I hear love does that. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't allow anyone else to have the feat apply to the eidolon, though.)
In my opinion, the game is a lot more fun if you don't optimize and the everyone just has fun. As to why the feats don't apply by RAW: I don't care. I just wanted to voice how I run things because no one had brought up that point yet. Heck, maybe I'm the only DM that is nice to his summoners.
The once a day thing is my fault. Miss read it. I guess I'm just opposed to the Eidolon being treated as a "companion" of any kind. To me he's the big guy you call in when things get/will be hairy, not the continual bodyguard type. Play style preference I guess.
Knight, I don't think we are telling you not to houserule the feat to apply to the summoner's Eidolon. I'm certainly not. By rules, it does not apply- that's all I was answering.
As to whether you should or not? Thematically, of course. I do feel that +4 Strength and +4 Con is a lot for a feat, if it's being applied basically to a partial PC. It's +2 to hit and damage for everything the Eidolon does, and then 2 hit points per hit die, and then also +2 to Fort saves. That lines up pretty well with basically: Weapon Focus, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Toughness, Toughness, and Great Fortitude. The Eidolon is not some cheap weasel, he's a solid contributor, is usually available and swinging.
My recommendation: I would have it be +2 Str and +2 Con to the Eidolon, and have the full effect on everything else.
But it won't break your game if you go full effect.
Quote: I guess I'm just opposed to the Eidolon being treated as a "companion" of any kind. To me he's the big guy you call in when things get/will be hairy, not the continual bodyguard type. Play style preference I guess. You are really low balling your power level then. Also when things get hairy, you sit and channel for a minute solid? Or you burn a second level spell and a full round of casting?
The Eidolon is meant to be a companion. He's out and about whenever the PCs are, unless you, the summoner, choose otherwise (normally this is if you are in a city and have to do something social beyond walking around or shopping, such as attend a formal dinner or something, but it could be any reason at all you choose to dismiss your Eidolon).
cfalcon wrote: I do feel that +4 Strength and +4 Con is a lot for a feat, if it's being applied basically to a partial PC. It's an enhancement bonus to those stats, so it doesn't stack with items.
Imho it's not too out there as the eidolon has this weird rule on sharing item slots with the summoner.
Personally I would house rule away the later weird exception/restriction and not have augment summoning apply.
But then I'd also remove the restriction on not being able to use the summon SLA when the eidolon is out.
The summoner has so many, many special rules and exceptions that if I were going to make house rules for the class they would be geared at removing these special rules.
-James
That is a good point- the fact that it is an enhancement bonus escaped me.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
