Questions on the nature of Gozreh (Also: ruminations on Groetus and his apocalypse)


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Forgive the pun; it was unintentional (at least until I noticed it). I can't help but wonder about Gozreh and what his place in the cosmology is. I'm hoping that someone has a better grasp on him/her/it than I...

Gozreh is an incredibly ancient and (supposedly) powerful deity with a nature-centric portfolio - at first glance, at least. Why would most druids choose to follow the Green Faith exclusively, when Gozreh has dominion over that which they venerate? Perhaps I misunderstand the power of the divine or the reasoning behind "nature" being a part of his/her/its portfolio. Certainly, his description in Gods and Magic puts a much greater emphasis on his power over the winds and waves rather than his dominion over nature, so it may be that Gozreh really is more of an elemental deity rather than a deity representing the totality of nature. This would explain druids' preference for the Green Faith, but not why Gozreh is considered the "deity of nature."

The question of Gozreh's portfolios brings up another question, one relating to the position of said deity in the cosmos. Gozreh is said to dwell "at the horizon, where the sea meets the sky" (Gods and Magic, 18), though unlike many of the other deities it is not specifically stated where he/she/it really dwells. If Gozreh is specifically tied to Golarion - or indeed lives on the Material Plane - how is it that he has worshipers among the marids and djinn that live on the Elemental Planes (as stated in The Great Beyond)?

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As for Groetus, I was just wondering about connections (real, or in the imaginations/rumor mills of planar denizens) between him and the Proteans.

Obviously, the proteans want the universe to be subsumed once more by the Maelstrom. Groetus's grand purpose is unknown, but it is said that once he hits Pharasma's Spire, the state of the universe will be forever altered. Since the Maelstrom (and the proteans) were around long before the Spire and Groetus, one might conclude that Groetus's apocalypse might be the eventual absorption of the Great Beyond back into the Maelstrom. It's just a thought :)

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EDIT: An addendum to my ponderings, before I go to sleep:

What is Gozreh's connection/relationship with the First World and its inhabitants? Likewise, what does the Green Faith teach about the First World? There was precious little about that plane in The Great Beyond, but it seems to have a good deal of influence in Golarion judging from all the gnomes and fey hopping around. Here's hoping more info will surface about it soon!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Gozreh is more or less intended to be the primary god worshiped by druids who worship gods (as opposed to things like the Green Faith), as well as the god worshiped by those who depend on nature or the sea, like sailors. Since so much of the natural world depends on the sea and water, it's really not that unusual that Gozreh has a large element of the ocean in his/her portfolio. Certainly, Gozreh is the personification of the impartial cruelty of nature more than a manifestation of nature's beauty and grace.

We'll be exploring Gozreh a LOT more during the Seprent's Skull adventure path; Gozreh will be receiving an 8 page or so article in Pathfinder #38 this upcoming September. And the First World itself will be explored even sooner during the Kingmaker Adventure Path, with a big article about the First World itself scheduled to appear in Pathfinder #36 in July.

As for Groteus, he doesn't really have much linking him to the proteans, despite their shared alignments and their similar links to "the end of the world."

Verdant Wheel

James Jacobs wrote:
We'll be exploring Gozreh a LOT more during the Seprent's Skull adventure path; Gozreh will be receiving an 8 page or so article in Pathfinder #38 this upcoming September. And the First World itself will be explored even sooner during the Kingmaker Adventure Path, with a big article about the First World itself scheduled to appear in Pathfinder #36 in July.

Wait. if Gozreh and Nethys are going in Serpent Skull. Than the last 3 pairs should be :

Pharasma - Urganthoa : Ustalav AP ?
Irori - Norgorber : Jade Regent AP ?
Shelyn - Torag : Mysterious AP ?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Draco Bahamut wrote:

Wait. if Gozreh and Nethys are going in Serpent Skull. Than the last 3 pairs should be :

Pharasma - Urganthoa : Ustalav AP ?
Irori - Norgorber : Jade Regent AP ?
Shelyn - Torag : Mysterious AP ?

Close... but not quite!

Contributor

Although the Chorus of the Ravenous Moon and Open Grave has quite a lot to do with Pharasma's Spire and Groetus, it's only one chorus out of innumerable others. And certainly not all of the choruses even seek to return all things to the Maelstrom (not yet anyway), like the Chorus of Broken Gates (who focus exclusively on Hell's destruction), and the chorus of the Subtle Ear and Poisoned Tongue (who obsess over the idea and evolution of mortal religions, and go out of their way to influence them, tweak dogma, cause syncretism, cause schism, etc to learn about it and also to craft it like a massive work of art).


James Jacobs wrote:

Gozreh is more or less intended to be the primary god worshiped by druids who worship gods (as opposed to things like the Green Faith), as well as the god worshiped by those who depend on nature or the sea, like sailors. Since so much of the natural world depends on the sea and water, it's really not that unusual that Gozreh has a large element of the ocean in his/her portfolio. Certainly, Gozreh is the personification of the impartial cruelty of nature more than a manifestation of nature's beauty and grace.

We'll be exploring Gozreh a LOT more during the Seprent's Skull adventure path; Gozreh will be receiving an 8 page or so article in Pathfinder #38 this upcoming September. And the First World itself will be explored even sooner during the Kingmaker Adventure Path, with a big article about the First World itself scheduled to appear in Pathfinder #36 in July.

As for Groteus, he doesn't really have much linking him to the proteans, despite their shared alignments and their similar links to "the end of the world."

Thanks for the replies! It's good to hear that Gozreh and other nature-related entities will be getting some face time. I'm especially excited about the inclusion of First World info during Kingmaker, which I'm certain will be the next AP I'll run. From what you say about Gozreh, it seems he's more of a god who people sacrifice/pray to in order to stave off unexpected natural events - so tribal shamans (judging from the info released about Serpent's Skull) and sailors definitely fit among his supplicants.

Todd Stewart wrote:
Although the Chorus of the Ravenous Moon and Open Grave has quite a lot to do with Pharasma's Spire and Groetus, it's only one chorus out of innumerable others. And certainly not all of the choruses even seek to return all things to the Maelstrom (not yet anyway), like the Chorus of Broken Gates (who focus exclusively on Hell's destruction), and the chorus of the Subtle Ear and Poisoned Tongue (who obsess over the idea and evolution of mortal religions, and go out of their way to influence them, tweak dogma, cause syncretism, cause schism, etc to learn about it and also to craft it like a massive work of art).

I have to say that the proteans are, in my opinion, perhaps the most interesting and refreshing addition Pathfinder brings to the D&D/fantasy cosmology. They're definitely my new favorite among the outer planes paragons. Their inscrutable schemes and deranged art make them much cooler than the slaadi. I can't wait to see more about them - or, dare I say it, a module or adventure path heavily influenced by them!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Evil Genius wrote:

I have to say that the proteans are, in my opinion, perhaps the most interesting and refreshing addition Pathfinder brings to the D&D/fantasy cosmology. They're definitely my new favorite among the outer planes paragons. Their inscrutable schemes and deranged art make them much cooler than the slaadi. I can't wait to see more about them - or, dare I say it, a module or adventure path heavily influenced by them!

The proteans have a pretty strong role in Legacy of Fire already... PARTICULARLY in part 4, which also has a big article about Proteans to support things (as well as two different protean stat blocks).


Evil Genius wrote:
I have to say that the proteans are, in my opinion, perhaps the most interesting and refreshing addition Pathfinder brings to the D&D/fantasy cosmology. They're definitely my new favorite among the outer planes paragons. Their inscrutable schemes and deranged art make them much cooler than the slaadi. I can't wait to see more about them - or, dare I say it, a module or adventure path heavily influenced by them!

I've always been upset by how D&D handled slaad. Proteans are an excellent and refreshing take on chaotic exemplar.

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