Eidolon snatch versus grab


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest


Any reason anyone can think of that a huge eidolon with the Swallow Whole evolution but not the grab(bite) evolution couldn't take the Snatch feat from the Bestiary and still use the Swallow Whole ability?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nazard wrote:
Any reason anyone can think of that a huge eidolon with the Swallow Whole evolution but not the grab(bite) evolution couldn't take the Snatch feat from the Bestiary and still use the Swallow Whole ability?

Perhaps because the rules specifically state that you need grab rather than snatch before you can get swallow whole?


Ravingdork wrote:
Nazard wrote:
Any reason anyone can think of that a huge eidolon with the Swallow Whole evolution but not the grab(bite) evolution couldn't take the Snatch feat from the Bestiary and still use the Swallow Whole ability?
Perhaps because the rules specifically state that you need grab rather than snatch before you can get swallow whole?

Well, if the rules "specifically stated" that, I wouldn't have asked the question. As it is, the relevant description of swallow whole is

PZO1115AFinal wrote:

If the eidolon begins its turn with a creature

grappled using its bite attack (see the grab evolution),
it can attempt a combat maneuver check to swallow the
creature.

The rule therefore "specifically states" that if the victim is currently being grappled by a bite attack (which snatch allows) at the start of the eidolon's turn, it can be swallowed. The part "(see the grab evolution)" could just as easily be a "refer to this paragraph to see more about grappling with a bite attack" entry, as the swallow whole entry doesn't state anything like "the eidolon must have the grab evolution to take this evolution".


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nazard wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Nazard wrote:
Any reason anyone can think of that a huge eidolon with the Swallow Whole evolution but not the grab(bite) evolution couldn't take the Snatch feat from the Bestiary and still use the Swallow Whole ability?
Perhaps because the rules specifically state that you need grab rather than snatch before you can get swallow whole?

Well, if the rules "specifically stated" that, I wouldn't have asked the question. As it is, the relevant description of swallow whole is

PZO1115AFinal wrote:

If the eidolon begins its turn with a creature

grappled using its bite attack (see the grab evolution),
it can attempt a combat maneuver check to swallow the
creature.
The rule therefore "specifically states" that if the victim is currently being grappled by a bite attack (which snatch allows) at the start of the eidolon's turn, it can be swallowed. The part "(see the grab evolution)" could just as easily be a "refer to this paragraph to see more about grappling with a bite attack" entry, as the swallow whole entry doesn't state anything like "the eidolon must have the grab evolution to take this evolution".

Yeah, I can buy that. Still, unless you were desperate to save evolution points, why would you? At best, snatch allows your eidolon to get a hold of a small sized creature. Grab on the other hand allows you to get a hold of a (at best) large sized creature.


A good point about the size limits, I missed that on my first read through. My main point, I guess, is that there are several evolutions that can be duplicated by feats from the Bestiary (Improved Natural Attack, for example). Not really a criticism or complaint, just an observation.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nazard wrote:
A good point about the size limits, I missed that on my first read through. My main point, I guess, is that there are several evolutions that can be duplicated by feats from the Bestiary (Improved Natural Attack, for example). Not really a criticism or complaint, just an observation.

Keep in mind that the Improved Natural Attack feat stacks with the Improved Damage evolution. You could potentially end up with a 12d8 + (1.5 x Str mod) slam attack (huge eidolon with sole slam attack and improved vital strike).

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