Following up Mr. Mona's suggestion when he, quite correctly, locked this thread.
Something that thread brought up is what does "Feminism" mean now-a-days?
The reason I asked there is that there have been many instances were extremists - on both sides of the issue - have pulled and distorted the meaning of the word Feminism that it may no longer mean what it says in the dictionary.
And before we could have any meaningful discussion about the impact of "Feminism on Gaming" we need to actually understand what we are talking about.
So what does "Feminism" mean now-a-days?
You guys do realize this is a role-playing game website, right?
You guys do realize this is a role-playing game website, right?
I do.
But, I am not sure I understand your comment. :/
I'm just thinking it's a strange choice of venue for sociological debate and discussion, beyond the topic of women in gaming.
ducks and runs
I'm just thinking it's a strange choice of venue for sociological debate and discussion, beyond the topic of women in gaming.
It is.
But this thread results from such a discussion thread about Women in Gaming because there were posters who clearly had very different understandings of what "Feminism" meant.
Threadjack warning:
I can only judge what I see in Greece of what feminism means. Women have the same equal right as men they hold the same positions as men plus they get certain benefits men do not receive. They get a year and a half paid maternity leave when they have a child. Mothers who have 4+ children receive a stipend from the government. They are given the option to retire early men are not. ....
And government sponsored health care too? No wonder Greece is broke.
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Something that thread brought up is what does "Feminism" mean now-a-days?
The reason I asked there is that there have been many instances were extremists - on both sides of the issue - have pulled and distorted the meaning of the word Feminism that it may no longer mean what it says in the dictionary.
I think that those radical elements have distorted the view society has of it, otherwise we wouldn't have the term 'feminazi'.
I believe there are plenty of women who still think that feminism should be striving for equal rights, but unfortunately there are plenty of women who prefer the idea of reversing the gender inequality for their own gain.
I'm sad I never got an answer from SKR on my question of the sins of the past excusing the sins of the future.
I think that those radical elements have distorted the view society has of it, otherwise we wouldn't have the term 'feminazi'.Something that thread brought up is what does "Feminism" mean now-a-days?
The reason I asked there is that there have been many instances were extremists - on both sides of the issue - have pulled and distorted the meaning of the word Feminism that it may no longer mean what it says in the dictionary.
True, but using a term coined by Rush Limbaugh is just troubling for me. :(
I believe there are plenty of women who still think that feminism should be striving for equal rights, but unfortunately there are plenty of women who prefer the idea of reversing the gender inequality for their own gain.
And plenty of men (and a handful women) who are exploiting the backlash against "feminism" for their own gain as well.
But for the most part I agree with you. Before we can talk about "feminism and (any other subject)", we really need to have a general agreement about what "femanism" actually is.
I'm sad I never got an answer from SKR on my question of the sins of the past excusing the sins of the future.
Unfortunately, if you read between the lines of his posts, I think he did answer you.
You mean like "Liberal" and "Conservative"?
Nah, it's probably not that meaningless...yet.
I'm sad I never got an answer from SKR on my question of the sins of the past excusing the sins of the future.
I obliquely hit that when I responded to the other guy's comment about a few women trying to punish their soon-to-be-ex-husbands do not represent a majority of the feminists in this country. My original comment was a bit off topic, and should have been clearer in stating, "I understand you're upset about the injustice to your friends, but you should take into account the injustice that many women feel based on the real-world facts about historical inequalities, some of which continue to this day. There are women alive today who were born before women had the right to vote. That sort of thing has to give women perspective on how much worse things can be--and how much farther they still need to go to gain equality.
Better a buzzword than a swearword.
You mean like "Liberal" and "Conservative"?
Nah, it's probably not that meaningless...yet.
Speaking of "Liberal" and "Conservative" and "meaningless"...
Sorry, couldn't resist. :P
I think that those radical elements have distorted the view society has of it, otherwise we wouldn't have the term 'feminazi'.Something that thread brought up is what does "Feminism" mean now-a-days?
The reason I asked there is that there have been many instances were extremists - on both sides of the issue - have pulled and distorted the meaning of the word Feminism that it may no longer mean what it says in the dictionary.
True, but using a term coined by Rush Limbaugh is just troubling for me. :(
A term which has a very specific meaning and has never been applied to all feminists. A feminazi is a member of the feminist movement who's over all goal is to see to it that as many abortions as possible occur. You know, like the ones who protested CBS running an ad during the Super Bowl where Tim Tebow's mom says I had a choice and I chose life. Those type of people don't have a pro-woman, pro-choice agenda, they have a pro-abortion agenda. You can count the number of feminazis in this country on two hands.
On the other side, you have idiots like Sarah Palin who actually do an interview where she actually said that she was glad she was able to choose whether to abort or not, but other women should not have that choice. The problem with defining a "femenist" is that even self-described feminists don't agree on what it means. Both Sarah Palin and NARAL define themselves as feminists, but they do not agree on most issues.
The dictionary definition only describes one type of feminist, the Classical feminist. There are also Liberal feminists, Post Modern feminists, Postcolonial feminists, Marxist feminists, Hyper feminists etc. A more complete discussion of the major subgroups is found here Until feminists can agree on what being feminist means, I find it highly doubtful that we will be able to. Ultimately, the sad thing is that you will find at least some subgroup of feminist that embodies and holds to every stereotype of feminism, both positive and negative.
Feminism...
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
This makes me a feminist.
I believe many lines are drawn (especially when it comes to behaviour) along sexist lines. Its not "Men are...", "Women just...", etc. Its People are, People just and so forth. If you find something unpleasant (or pleasant) in your own or the opposite sex take a moment and think. If you take someone's behavior and reverse the sexes of the people involved you often see what the person is/is doing without the smokescreen of sex in the way.
I hate it when someone says "women are <insert term here>" or "men are <insert term here>".
F-ing learn that it is a people problem and that both sexes do <insert term here> (sometimes in just slightly different ways do to socialization pressures). It is not a venus vs mars thing. Anyone who says that deserves a good dressing down.
Really it depends who says it. If the word is said by anyone on the Fox news network, then yes, it’s a buzz word. Just like terrorist means any criminal, or anyone they don’t like (terrorist fist jab, really?), feminist is a bad word they like to use to describe any woman who doesn’t agree with them and is up there with the gays on the destroying the American family front, and thus denying all of the Fox news correspondent’s dreams of living in Leave it to Beaver.
Feminism is an apparition summoned by people on internet forums after listening to Rush Limbaugh. These people have little or no exposure to actual feminists, but feel as though it is an encroaching threat on their own lives because they cannot distinguish his sexist ramblings from their own thoughts.
Dont believe everything you hear on the western media. Greece is not broke and the situation isnt as dire as it may seem. If anything its just a delay tactic to keep the European Union off our backs and eventually write the debt off.Threadjack warning:
I can only judge what I see in Greece of what feminism means. Women have the same equal right as men they hold the same positions as men plus they get certain benefits men do not receive. They get a year and a half paid maternity leave when they have a child. Mothers who have 4+ children receive a stipend from the government. They are given the option to retire early men are not. ....And government sponsored health care too? No wonder Greece is broke.
Unfortunately, the western media is all I have. But I will keep your advice in mind as I listen to the next story.
Odd thing.
I was just thinking that I am a feminist but I support equal rights for all. It made me wonder whether there was an opposite (somewhat) & equivalent word meaning "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of men equal to those of women".
Nope. Masculinist means "an advocate of male superiority or dominance".
Maybe there should be a neutral word that is defined as: "The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights to be equal between women and men".
It can then replace feminism and hopefully won't cause people to view the issue as one sex vs the other.
Edit: If such a word already exists inform me please.
Egalitarianism.
Of course, it has "gal" in it...
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Odd thing.
I was just thinking that I am a feminist but I support equal rights for all. It made me wonder whether there was an opposite (somewhat) & equivalent word meaning "the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of men equal to those of women".Nope. Masculinist means "an advocate of male superiority or dominance".
Maybe there should be a neutral word that is defined as: "The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights to be equal between women and men".
It can then replace feminism and hopefully won't cause people to view the issue as one sex vs the other.
Edit: If such a word already exists inform me please.
Equalitist would be a good term.
"I understand you're upset about the injustice to your friends, but you should take into account the injustice that many women feel based on the real-world facts about historical inequalities, some of which continue to this day."
So let me get this straight. You're advocating that it's okay that today's men pay for the apparent "sins" of their grandfathers while totally disregarding the fact that the vast majority of those men had no say in the system either and that modern women aren't suffering those same problems.
Think about that for a second. Do you really think it would make any sense for you to sit your great granddaughter on your knee and say "Sorry sweetie, but because the boys and men of my generation were discriminated against in my youth, you can't do x, y or z and there's no governement funding for girls only programs. You just need to understand that we lived through a time of historical inequalities some of which continue to this day."
More likely, you wouldn't be able to have her sit on your knee because with 2-3 generations of potential divorce between you, you might see once a year if that.
There are women alive today who were born before women had the right to vote.
So what if there are? There's plenty of men who died violent deaths in war to ensure that women continued to have that right to vote too.
That sort of thing has to give women perspective on how much worse things can be--and how much farther they still need to go to gain equality.
That's a nice tagline, but can you actually name some of them?
The glass ceiling? That's been throughly discredited by Warren Farrell.http://www.warrenfarrell.net/Summary/index.html
The pay gap is a direct consequence of women's choices. When you actually control for equal experience and work load in the same job, the pay is the same or in some cases better for women. The oft quoted 76 cents on the dollar is a function of an apples to oranges comparison which treats janitors and home makers on the same level of exectutives.
No doubt you've got other examples and if you're actually interested in discussing them, great I'm open to it. If you're not that's fine too, but if any one wants more information on these issues, I'd strongly encourage you to go to http://www.glennsacks.com/blog/ and read up on them yourself.
Tries to stack smnrfs and hide from Daisy Mae behind them.
Sh! Daisy Mae iza lookin fer me, and she's lookin to git hitched!
That ain't moonshine, izit? My pappy tol' me to stay away from moonshine. First ya git all lickered up, then the next thing ya know, some wily female iza wallkin ya down the aisle!
The existence of so much backlash againt the feminist movement ON THIS BOARD answers the question. It's not only far from meaningless.. it's more important than ever.
Because if the movement was truly meaningless... it would not stir up so much resentment.
The unfortunate thing about it, is that so much backlash has given us a less than savory picture of the gaming community to a female thinking of entering it on her own (as opposed to being dragged in by a male significant other)
Define resentment and bcklash.
The problem is you can't avoid the fact that for some on both sides of the argument..Female equality=Male inequality.
Now I have no problem with a woman getting equal pay for the same work as long as she is doing exactly the same work and as long as they don't expect allowances to be made for them.
However the impression I get from many 'Media Feminists' is that they want a reversal where men are in the situation women were in 100 years ago
Come my Fremen! Now is the time to stri....
Oh, you said Feminist. Oops. My bad.
No, it is not moonshine. Nor is it a highly corrosive acid that will dissolve your very flesh and bones into a protoplasmic soup.
I don't know...cuz there's definitely somethin eatin at posters roundherebouts, anda maybe itsa comin from this here barrel a yorn.
Come my Fremen! Now is the time to stri....
Oh, you said Feminist. Oops. My bad.
Hearing its master's call, a mighty literary phallic trope comes bursting into the thread
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No, it is not moonshine. Nor is it a highly corrosive acid that will dissolve your very flesh and bones into a protoplasmic soup.I don't know...cuz there's definitely somethin eatin at posters roundherebouts, anda maybe itsa comin from this here barrel a yorn.
I'll tell you what Lil Abnerzombie. Why don't you come by the house on Saturday. I'll have the missus fix you up some good food.
Hearing its master's call, a mighty literary phallic trope comes bursting into the threadCome my Fremen! Now is the time to stri....
Oh, you said Feminist. Oops. My bad.
Huzzah! Wormsign!
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The problem is you can't avoid the fact that for some on both sides of the argument..Female equality=Male inequality.
Now I have no problem with a woman getting equal pay for the same work as long as she is doing exactly the same work and as long as they don't expect allowances to be made for them.
However the impression I get from many 'Media Feminists' is that they want a reversal where men are in the situation women were in 100 years ago
In political science, we call that "Amazon Feminism."
I'll tell you what Lil Abnerzombie. Why don't you come by the house on Saturday. I'll have the missus fix you up some good food.
M-mm. I shore do love good eatin'.
After eatin, I hope you got a porch we kin nap on. A nice mess a brains and beans makes me tired sumthin fierce!
Braiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnssssssssss!