Alchermist Bomb Discoveries


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest


I'm planning out my Alchemist for our new campaign and I've run into a bit of a snag with bomb discoveries and the following text.

Quote:
Unless otherwise noted, discoveries that modify bombs do not stack. Only one such discovery can be applied to an individual bomb.

RAW this means that nothing that modifies a bomb stacks, save for multiple instances of the Potent Bomb discovery. Does this also mean that you can't mix and match discoveries (i.e. use Precision Bomb and Frost Bomb together). It appears to me that the intent of this rule is that you can't stack multiple occurrences of the same discovery (i.e. apply explosive bomb 5 times), but it seems to read that you can only apply 1 discovery to any 1 bomb.

Maybe I've been staring at this too long... this may come down to the definition of "stack".


I think that was meant to clarify that you can´t use the several fog clouds effects at the same time and/or the several energy bombs at athe same time, to attack ghost red dragon with frost/force for example.

Humbly,
Yawar


After a long discussion with my entire group we've decided on this interpretation.

Fast/Precise/Potent/Sticky/Explosive don't modify the bomb, they modify the alchemist (kind of like a feat). These can be used in combination with any other bomb discovery.

Frost/Acid/Force/Concussive/Shock - only 1 of these can be applied at a time as it says, "he can choose".

Inferno/Stink/Poison - Only 1 of these can be applied because they say, "instead of fog cloud".

Madness was the only one we haven't figured out where to place. I don't intend on using it though, so it won't be a big deal for our game.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
YawarFiesta wrote:

I think that was meant to clarify that you can´t use the several fog clouds effects at the same time and/or the several energy bombs at athe same time, to attack ghost red dragon with frost/force for example.

Humbly,
Yawar

Yeah, but the way it's written seems to indicate you can't have a precise/explosive bomb, for example. I don't have the APG PDF in front of me, but there was at least one discovery that referenced other bomb effects in a way that implied you could have another one, but it didn't specifically say it could b applied alongside other discoveries. Actually, I'm not sure if *any* of them spell out that they can be applied with other effects. It could stand a slight clarification.


Sidivan has spelled out the way, I think, that it SHOULD work. Because not being able to combine Explosive Bomb with the cloud effects is just sad.


If I can recall right, fast bomb does not modify the bomb, YOU create them faster. Precise bomb does not modify the bomb either as it says "when the alchemist throws the bomb". In other word this is an effect that comes into play after the bomb is thrown because of him. Not in the creation process. A nice guideline is: Every discovery that starts with the sentence: "When the alchemist creates a bomb" is not stackable. Because these effects directly modifies the bomb. Then comes the cloud questions. Well they replace the fog cloud ability (smoke bomb), wich also starts with the sentence "When the alchemist creates a bomb".

In other words:

fast+precise+elemental = good to go
fast+precise+fog (of any kind) = good to go
elemental+fog = no go

That is by the book though. Explosive bomb and madness bomb is a rather tricky subject since it seems like it's modifying the bomb, but in the text "it's just there". So I will leave that up to the individual players and their respective GM's\DM's. My suggestion is as following. Explosive bomb can stack with elemental, and madness bomb stack with fogs. Then again it's just a suggestion.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

That's clear and attentive analysis on your part, Nejrael, and basically I agree with you. I still feel clarification is in order. They should spell out which "modify bombs" and which don't using the same phrasing used in the mention that such discoveries don't stack. It's kind of like saying that all blue people need to be circled on a photo and then giving you a black-and-white picture of smurfs and gnomes. The expectations aren't right. If you know smurfs are blue, and you can tell the smurfs/gnomes apart, you'll do it right...but maybe that gnome looks kinda smurfy...

There shouldn't be edge cases. It should say explicitly whether a discovery can be combined or not. Heck, just adding "Bomb Modification: [type]" to the beginning of the discovery names that don't stack would work wonders without destroying word count/page formatting.


I truly agree with you RicoTheBold, it does need a clarification (liked your analogy with smurfs and gnomes btw).


And why did my avatar turn into a smurf with a trumpet?


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Every time you use the word "smurf" in a post, your avatar gets smurfed automatically by the message board for that post. I don't even have an avatar normally.

It's also the only reason a smurf analogy came to mind.


It's smurf-abolous!


Abraham spalding wrote:
It's smurf-abolous!

Now I feel like I have to make this Alchemist a smurf specialist. Constantly babbling about Gargamel and brewing up crazy potions. Take a page from Jokey and make all the bombs presents. Mutagens would turn me into Hefty. Start referring to the local old wizard as Father Time...

I could say stuff like, "Hmm... let me see if I can smurf something up real quick..."


Sidivan wrote:

After a long discussion with my entire group we've decided on this interpretation.

Fast/Precise/Potent/Sticky/Explosive don't modify the bomb, they modify the alchemist (kind of like a feat). These can be used in combination with any other bomb discovery.

Frost/Acid/Force/Concussive/Shock - only 1 of these can be applied at a time as it says, "he can choose".

Inferno/Stink/Poison - Only 1 of these can be applied because they say, "instead of fog cloud".

Madness was the only one we haven't figured out where to place. I don't intend on using it though, so it won't be a big deal for our game.

+1

That's exactly how I think it should work!


Sidivan wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
It's smurf-abolous!

Now I feel like I have to make this Alchemist a smurf specialist. Constantly babbling about Gargamel and brewing up crazy potions. Take a page from Jokey and make all the bombs presents. Mutagens would turn me into Hefty. Start referring to the local old wizard as Father Time...

I could say stuff like, "Hmm... let me see if I can smurf something up real quick..."

O.M.G!!

that would be soo totally awesome!!!! Even better, play as a Blue :)

I think i am so gonna steal this idea!!!

Kudos to you sir!!


Monkeygod wrote:
Sidivan wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
It's smurf-abolous!

Now I feel like I have to make this Alchemist a smurf specialist. Constantly babbling about Gargamel and brewing up crazy potions. Take a page from Jokey and make all the bombs presents. Mutagens would turn me into Hefty. Start referring to the local old wizard as Father Time...

I could say stuff like, "Hmm... let me see if I can smurf something up real quick..."

O.M.G!!

that would be soo totally awesome!!!! Even better, play as a Blue :)

I think i am so gonna steal this idea!!!

Kudos to you sir!!

Have at it! Let me know how it works out!

I'm working on the bio for my alch now. Over the years, I've done a lot of research into Alchemy, so I'm tossing a nod to Nicholas Flamel. My charactor is a novelist and while researching for his next book he stumbled upon the same book Flamel did, only it has maniacal writings all over it (from Flamel). He ends up spending 50 years in a lab (an elf of course) obsessing over it's meaning and driving himself mad, but ends up discovering mutagens and extracts. CN Elven Alchemist named "Lazel Nicoli"

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