Is a medium humanoid eidolon viable?


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest

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Honestly, if you're going for an archer you might as well drop the Eidolon to Small size. You get an extra +2 to hit that way (+1 Dex bonus, +1 size bonus), which more than makes up for the -2 to damage from the Strength penalty and the -1 to average damage from the die size decrease. Also consider going with a Serpentine base form for the extra Dex. Going with the 6th level examples being made, here's what I would suggest:

MightyEidolon
(any) Small Outsider (extraplanar)
Init +5; Senses Darkvision 60'; Perception +16
--------------
Defense
--------------
AC 26, touch 16, flat-footed 21 (+5 Dexterity, +4 armor, +6 natural armor, +1 size)
hp 30 (5d10+5)
Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +4 (+8 vs enchantment)
--------------
Offense
--------------
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee bite +6 (1d4) and tail slap +1 (1d4)
Ranged +1 longbow +6/+6 (1d6+1) and 3 +1 longbows +6 (1d6+1)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
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Stats
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Str 10, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
BAB +5; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats Multiweapon Fighting, Weapon Proficiency: Longbow, Rapid Shot
Skills Perception +16, Stealth +17, ...
SQ serpentine base form, devotion, evolutions, shield ally, evasion, link, share spells
Gear 4 +1 longbows
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Special Abilities
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Evolutions: bite (0 points), climb (0 points), tail (0 points), tail slap (0 points), limbs (arms x4, 8 points), skilled (perception, 1 point)

That's a decent base. Note that it does NOT have Point Blank and Precise Shot. There's simply not enough feats and evolution points to go around to get it the proficiencies it needs AND the archery feat tax. With its climb speed, you should be able to negate any firing-through-others soft cover penalties, at least, even if you have to eat the firing-into-melee one at this point.

Dark Archive

RicoTheBold wrote:
I don't get why anyone would say bipeds shouldn't be able to get claws on their feet. Plenty of bipedal creatures attack with their legs. Dinosaurs, flightless birds, regular birds, and humans are what come to mind at the moment, but limiting claws to quads only would be weird.

I just don't think it is feasible( besides pouncing on someone ) to 4x claw and bite in six seconds when you are clawing with the things you are supposed to be standing on. Apparently that's just me.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There are plenty of real martial artists who could get two kicks and two punches in six seconds, even being forced to use 1 attack per limb, and they are limited by human skeletons with human musculature. Something that only looks vaguely humanoid need not suffer those limitations at all.


Zurai wrote:

Honestly, if you're going for an archer you might as well drop the Eidolon to Small size. You get an extra +2 to hit that way (+1 Dex bonus, +1 size bonus), which more than makes up for the -2 to damage from the Strength penalty and the -1 to average damage from the die size decrease. Also consider going with a Serpentine base form for the extra Dex. Going with the 6th level examples being made, here's what I would suggest:

MightyEidolon

Spoiler:

(any) Small Outsider (extraplanar)
Init +5; Senses Darkvision 60'; Perception +16
--------------
Defense
--------------
AC 26, touch 16, flat-footed 21 (+5 Dexterity, +4 armor, +6 natural armor, +1 size)
hp 30 (5d10+5)
Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +4 (+8 vs enchantment)
--------------
Offense
--------------
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee bite +6 (1d4) and tail slap +1 (1d4)
Ranged +1 longbow +6/+6 (1d6+1) and 3 +1 longbows +6 (1d6+1)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
--------------
Stats
--------------
Str 10, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
BAB +5; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats Multiweapon Fighting, Weapon Proficiency: Longbow, Rapid Shot
Skills Perception +16, Stealth +17, ...
SQ serpentine base form, devotion, evolutions, shield ally, evasion, link, share spells
Gear 4 +1 longbows
--------------
Special Abilities
--------------
Evolutions: bite (0 points), climb (0 points), tail (0 points), tail slap (0 points), limbs (arms x4, 8 points), skilled (perception, 1 point)

Your example is missing Point-Blank Shot (the prereq. for Rapid Shot). Here's my example:

Big Archer
(any) Large Outsider (extraplanar)
Init +1; Senses Darkvision 60'; Perception +16
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Defense
--------------
AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21 (+1 Dexterity, +4 armor, +8 natural armor, -1 size)
hp 40 (5d10+15)
Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +4 (+8 vs enchantment)
--------------
Offense
--------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee claws +12/+12 (1d4+7) or greatsword +12 (3d6+10)
Ranged +1 longbow +7 or +5/+5 (2d6+8)
Space 10 ft.; Reach ? ft.
--------------
Stats
--------------
Str 24, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
BAB +5; CMB +13; CMD 25
Feats Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Longbow, Rapid Shot
Skills Perception +16, ...
SQ biped base form, devotion, evolutions, shield ally, evasion, link, share spells
Gear +1 longbow (24 Str)
--------------
Special Abilities
--------------
Evolutions: claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs), skilled (perception, 1 point), large size (4 pts), increased dex (2 pts), weapon proficiency (2 pts)

No worse in ranged combat, but much better in melee. The -4 penalty for multiple longbows really isn't worth it, I think.


hogarth wrote:
No worse in ranged combat, but much better in melee. The -4 penalty for multiple longbows really isn't worth it, I think.

You're right about the missing pre-req, but your example isn't valid, either. It isn't proficient in longbows (they're a martial weapon, and 2 points in weapon proficiency only grants a single simple weapon proficiency), which means it's also not allowed to have focus in longbows.


Zurai wrote:
hogarth wrote:
No worse in ranged combat, but much better in melee. The -4 penalty for multiple longbows really isn't worth it, I think.
You're right about the missing pre-req, but your example isn't valid, either. It isn't proficient in longbows (they're a martial weapon, and 2 points in weapon proficiency only grants a single simple weapon proficiency), which means it's also not allowed to have focus in longbows.

O.K., switch it for +2 Dex and replace Weapon Focus with MWP: longbow.


RicoTheBold wrote:
There are plenty of real martial artists who could get two kicks and two punches in six seconds, even being forced to use 1 attack per limb, and they are limited by human skeletons with human musculature. Something that only looks vaguely humanoid need not suffer those limitations at all.

I know a couple people who could pull it off in 1/2 that time. 6 seconds is a long time in a fight.

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