3 Wild Shaping Questions


Rules Questions


1)As far as I can tell, nowhere in the RAW does it suggest that you get the reach of the animal you shift into. It would make -sense- that you would; after all if you turn into a Gorilla, it isn't as though you aren't proficient in his slam attacks, and your arms are still long... or to take to the extreme, i think few dm's could argue that it makes sense that an elasmosaurus, with it's long neck that normally offered 20 foot reach, would be reduced to 5 feet.

The only RAW argument I can come up with is that space and reach come on the same line in the Bestiary, which suggests that they come hand-in-hand, but that's a pretty weak argument.

2) How exactly to multiple attacks from a higher BAB work when you shape change into an animal that gets multiple attacks?

For instance, my 8th level druid transforms into a deinonychus. My druid has a Str 16, BAB of +6/+1. A deinonychus gets 2 claws at +5 (1d8+2), a bite at +5 (1d6+2) and a talons attack at +0 (1d4+1). so what bonus to attack should I have, and damage, and what happens to my +1 iterative attack?

3) Has anyone worked out a wild shaping "cheat sheet" for PF? A sheet that could autofill stat changes from wild shaping would be helpful, as well as a reference for the available shapes and the abilities they offer, attacks, etc.

Shadow Lodge

Michael Fellows wrote:

1)As far as I can tell, nowhere in the RAW does it suggest that you get the reach of the animal you shift into. It would make -sense- that you would; after all if you turn into a Gorilla, it isn't as though you aren't proficient in his slam attacks, and your arms are still long... or to take to the extreme, i think few dm's could argue that it makes sense that an elasmosaurus, with it's long neck that normally offered 20 foot reach, would be reduced to 5 feet.

The only RAW argument I can come up with is that space and reach come on the same line in the Bestiary, which suggests that they come hand-in-hand, but that's a pretty weak argument.

I would imagine that it would be part of the Polymorph that says you gain all the creatures Natural Attacks, (with those being based off of Size and if the creature is Long or tall). See page 211 for Polymorph. I don't see a specific answer here, either, but think it is safe to assume so. Especially with the latet Beast Shape spells that Wild Shape emulates, as your size increases, so does your reach.

Michael Fellows wrote:


2) How exactly to multiple attacks from a higher BAB work when you shape change into an animal that gets multiple attacks?

For instance, my 8th level druid transforms into a deinonychus. My druid has a Str 16, BAB of +6/+1. A deinonychus gets 2 claws at +5 (1d8+2), a bite at +5 (1d6+2) and a talons attack at +0 (1d4+1). so what bonus to attack should I have, and damage, and what happens to my +1 iterative attack?

See page 182 about Natural Attacks, and also 211 again. You use your BaB + Str/Dex for attacks and yor Str for Damage. With natural Attacks, you do not get the normal BaB Attack progression, but rather MUST use the natural Attack progression. Primary attacks are at full BaB, Secondary Attacks (all of them) are at BaB -5. So, a 20th Level Druid, (+15 BaB with +3 Str) and a Bite (primary), 2 claws (secondary), a tail (secondary), and 2 wing attacks (secondary), your attacks would look like:

Bite +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Tail +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage

Michael Fellows wrote:


3) Has anyone worked out a wild shaping "cheat sheet" for PF? A sheet that could autofill stat changes from wild shaping would be helpful, as well as a reference for the available shapes and the abilities they offer, attacks, etc.

Somewhere around here, I believe there is a TreanMonk's Guide to Druids. I'm sure there are other things as well. The Beastiary does a good job, too.

The Exchange

Beckett wrote:

See page 182 about Natural Attacks, and also 211 again. You use your BaB + Str/Dex for attacks and yor Str for Damage. With natural Attacks, you do not get the normal BaB Attack progression, but rather MUST use the natural Attack progression. Primary attacks are at full BaB, Secondary Attacks (all of them) are at BaB -5. So, a 20th Level Druid, (+15 BaB with +3 Str) and a Bite (primary), 2 claws (secondary), a tail (secondary), and 2 wing attacks (secondary), your attacks would look like:

Bite +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Tail +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage

It is entirely possible that I am wrong, but if I recall correctly claw attacks are also considered primary attacks, so this should be the little summary

Bite +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +18 Full Str to Damage
Tail +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage

Shadow Lodge

AlanM wrote:
Beckett wrote:

. . .

Bite +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Claw +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Tail +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage

It is entirely possible that I am wrong, but if I recall correctly claw attacks are also considered primary attacks, so this should be the little summary

Bite +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +18 Full Str to Damage
Claw +18 Full Str to Damage
Tail +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage
Wing +13 1/2 Str to Damage

As I understand it, you would only have one primary attack when full attacking. You can have more than one type of Primary Attack, and attack types by themselves are not automatically a Primary or Secondary attack, but I'm not clear on this. In 3.5, whichever attack you wanted could be your Primary Attack.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bite and Claw are always primary attacks and go off the full bonus. Attack types are by themselves automatically primary or secondary, refer to Natural Attacks in universal monster rules.


Michael Fellows wrote:
3) Has anyone worked out a wild shaping "cheat sheet" for PF? A sheet that could autofill stat changes from wild shaping would be helpful, as well as a reference for the available shapes and the abilities they offer, attacks, etc.

I made one, once, to list the available WS creatures depending on druid level (including AC and ability modifiers), as well as summons (with the Augment Summoning option) and animal companions. I'll try to find it this evening (I'm @work at the moment).


Louis IX wrote:


I made one, once, to list the available WS creatures depending on druid level (including AC and ability modifiers), as well as summons (with the Augment Summoning option) and animal companions. I'll try to find it this evening (I'm @work at the moment).

That would be much appreciated, thanks!


I'm comtemplating doing something for my character sheet program as well, as my primary character is a druid who is in elemental form most of the time, so a buff section is looking more and more an option I want.

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