Eidolon: Evolution Claws (on Legs)

[Maezer]

I think the wrong path with limiting Claw attacks on legs was taken. The problem as I saw it was, the creature attacking with every limb leaving it nothing to stand on.

This change doesn't fix that though. The bipedal eidolon can still attach claws to all 4 limbs and do a belly spin (or whatever) to get all claws into combat as primary weapons.

Instead I think the restriction should be, the evolution should be restricted to the not be on the first set of legs. Letting the creature stand/rise up on its first pair of legs, and attack with all other limbs.

I think a better option. Though differing more greatly from the bsaeline is to seperate limbs into locomotion and offensive.

Limbs (locomotion) increase the creatures base speed by 10 feet (but cannot be used as a weapon). The creature has a pair of limbs that facilite its movement abilities, but are poorly suit for attacks. (Possibly only costing on 1 evolution point).

Limbs (offensive). The creature has a pair of limbs well suited to making attacks. (2 points) Then Claws/Slam/Pincers evolution are limited to the number of offensive limbs the eidolon has.

Also considering the adjustment to Max number of natural attacks (and how this has made weapon wielding eidolons so much more powerful) I would consider making Slam the default attack option rather than hands capable of wielding weapons. And make hands capable of wielding weapons cost 1 point akin to claws.

Just my thoughts.

[Kaisoku]

The problem is that many quadruped creatures have claws on their front legs, but also have 40+ speed scores (and bonuses to stability, etc) because they have 4 legs for movement.

The better wording would probably to simply say that any set of limbs(legs) after the first can have claws attached. Rake giving the claws used under special circumstances (grappling I believe) on the first set of legs.

If they come up with a "Hoof/Talons" weapon evolution, it would be allowed to apply to the first set of limbs(legs), allowing extra attacks (hoof=1pt but 1d4 dmg secondary attacks, talon=2pt but 1d4 dmg primary attacks).

[Maezer]

Kaisoku wrote:

The problem is that many quadruped creatures have claws on their front legs, but also have 40+ speed scores (and bonuses to stability, etc) because they have 4 legs for movement.

Solution:

Evolution: Limb Locomotions - You grow of pair of limbs that help you move faster and provide stability, increasing your base speed by 10 feet.

Evolution: Speed. Increase your base speed by 10'. For 1 evolution point.

This would let creatures run faster without requiring them to have extra pairs of legs which seems somewhat silly. Spiders, Centipedes, Etc. just don't go that much faster despite having extra legs. Where are there numerous beastary examples of 2 legged creatures moving at 40'+.

So the base quadreped would have, Limb Locomotion, limb offensive, speed, bite. And have the same base stats and the same number of limbs. Though they'd lose +2cmd against trip attacks.

Kaisoku wrote:

If they come up with a "Hoof/Talons" weapon evolution, it would be allowed to apply to the first set of limbs(legs), allowing extra attacks (hoof=1pt but 1d4 dmg secondary attacks, talon=2pt but 1d4 dmg primary attacks).

Talons fit well as offensive limbs with claws. I don't see why an bird of prey needs an improved land walking speed.

I could see hooves, as 1d4 seconardies, putting them costed with tentacles (1 point per attack once you include in the required legs). I would put the restriction that it can't go on the first set of locomotive limbs as Centuar's get 2 hoof attacks, Satyr's none.