summoners are outrageous


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest

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Is it truly outrageous?


Spacelard wrote:
Madcap Storm King wrote:
Spacelard wrote:


As people have pointed out this is no different from the Druid/Animal Companion/Summon Nature's Ally or Wizard/Familiar/Summon Monster.
I don't see any complaints about that.
Its not a concern for me or the designers and to keep bringing this up doesn't make it so. If there is a problem then it is probably down to disorganised players thumbing through books because they haven't got critter stat blocks to hand.

Can the Druid's Animal companion really take down an encounter by itself?

Could you elaborate a bit?

I am replying to the concern raised about a single player having multiple actions in a round. I fail to see what your question has to do with either the question or answer.

Quote:
Up in the first post in this giant chain the poster expresses concern over the Summoner dominating encounters. I was simply wondering if you were addressing that concern. No word-twisting intended.
Quote:

I replied to that concern. The poster was concerned that the Summoners total number of actions during a round with Eidolon and summnoned critters.

I still fail to see what your question "Can the Druid's Animal companion really take down an encounter by itself?" has to do with a concern about a players actions per round.

It doesn't have anything to do with it. I interpreted things differently than you did.

Also it appears there is a bug in the reply function with where to put the {quote} tag.


Madcap Storm King wrote:


It doesn't have anything to do with it. I interpreted things differently than you did.

Also it appears there is a bug in the reply function with where to put the {quote} tag.

My original post did mention the Summoner dominating combat (although it was lost in the flurry of responses refuting any kind of action discrepancy). IMO, the Eidolon is a little more potent than a familiar, or even an animal companion.


Madcap Storm King wrote:

Stuff

Okay lets try and clarify things a bit!

Does the number of actions per round mean the Summoner dominates those rounds? IMO no. The Summoner player uses the up no more time than a Wizard player with a familiar and Summon Monster spells or a Druid player with an animal companion and Nature's Ally spells running. Anyone can spam with SM or NA but the Summoner can't spam his SM SLA anymore.

Is the Eidolon more "powerful" than a Druid's Animal Companion? Yes it is but the point of the Summoner as Jason has said is that you aren't playing a Summoner but playing the Eidolon. A more accurate comparison would be "is the Eidolon more powerful than the Druid?" as IMO the Eidolon is the PC and the Summoner his animal companion.

I hope this helps in clearing up what I'm thinking about :)


Spacelard wrote:


Okay lets try and clarify things a bit!
Does the number of actions per round mean the Summoner dominates those rounds? IMO no. The Summoner player uses the up no more time than a Wizard player with a familiar and Summon Monster spells or a Druid player with an animal companion and Nature's Ally spells running. Anyone can spam with SM or NA but the Summoner can't spam his SM SLA anymore.

Is the Eidolon more "powerful" than a Druid's Animal Companion? Yes it is but the point of the Summoner as Jason has said is that you aren't playing a Summoner but playing the Eidolon. A more accurate comparison would be "is the Eidolon more powerful than the Druid?" as IMO the Eidolon is the PC and the Summoner his animal companion.

I hope this helps in clearing up what I'm thinking about :)

Perfectly, and I'll have to reexamine the class with the new perspective you've provided. It's a very interesting role reversal.


Robert Young wrote:
Spacelard wrote:


Okay lets try and clarify things a bit!
Does the number of actions per round mean the Summoner dominates those rounds? IMO no. The Summoner player uses the up no more time than a Wizard player with a familiar and Summon Monster spells or a Druid player with an animal companion and Nature's Ally spells running. Anyone can spam with SM or NA but the Summoner can't spam his SM SLA anymore.

Is the Eidolon more "powerful" than a Druid's Animal Companion? Yes it is but the point of the Summoner as Jason has said is that you aren't playing a Summoner but playing the Eidolon. A more accurate comparison would be "is the Eidolon more powerful than the Druid?" as IMO the Eidolon is the PC and the Summoner his animal companion.

I hope this helps in clearing up what I'm thinking about :)

Perfectly, and I'll have to reexamine the class with the new perspective you've provided. It's a very interesting role reversal.

Thank you.

Just for the record I'm not a great lover of the Summoner class so I'm neither defending or rallying against it.
Would the Summoner be a viable, playable PC without the Eidolon? I think not.
Is the Druid a viable, playable PC without the Animal Cmpanion? I would say yes


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Spacelard wrote:


Thank you.
Just for the record I'm not a great lover of the Summoner class so I'm neither defending or rallying against it.
Would the Summoner be a viable, playable PC without the Eidolon? I think not.
Is the Druid a viable, playable PC without the Animal Cmpanion? I would say yes

But, I'd say that the Eidelon is not a viable playable PC in it's current iteration either. Just a tiny bit too much nerfing.

I do agree though that the Summoner should be compared to the Druid's animal companion, and the Eidelon to the Druid, when comparing power levels. It does put a new spin on the 'Eidelon is too powerful' argument.


mdt wrote:
Spacelard wrote:


Thank you.
Just for the record I'm not a great lover of the Summoner class so I'm neither defending or rallying against it.
Would the Summoner be a viable, playable PC without the Eidolon? I think not.
Is the Druid a viable, playable PC without the Animal Cmpanion? I would say yes

But, I'd say that the Eidelon is not a viable playable PC in it's current iteration either. Just a tiny bit too much nerfing.

I do agree though that the Summoner should be compared to the Druid's animal companion, and the Eidelon to the Druid, when comparing power levels. It does put a new spin on the 'Eidelon is too powerful' argument.

I think part of the problem is (and I may be very wrong here!) people looking at the Eidolon/Summoner as separate entities when the whole package should be viewed. You can't have one without the other.

To compare the Eidolon alone against the Animal Companion alone of course its going to kick a$$. And a lone Summoner is going to be in a world of pain against a lone Druid. Its a bit like saying the Paladin is underpowered because his warhorse is cr@p.
I would suggest people check out Dark Joy's thread with a Summoner/Eidolon against a party of four it is very insightful.

LINK

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