Alchemist Discoveries, feats and equipment my group thought out.


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest


My group has been hard at work playtesting the Alchemist since it was first released. 2 weeks ago we began experimenting with some add-ons which we had a lot of fun with. Most of them turned out to be useless but the rest of these worked out really well. I decided to publish them here for inspirational purposes (not that you guys need it, evidently):

EDIT: I have most of these notes at the Game Masters house. I'll update this list during the weekend when I meet him.

Equipment:

"The Launcher"

A two-handed monstrosity of a bomb-launcher that comes equipped with a magazine capable of holding 10 bombs at a time. It has a range increment of 50 feet and the bombs fired from it counts as projectiles rather than thrown weapons.

It also comes in a one handed variety that has a range increment of 30 feet and a magazine capable of holding 5 bombs.

"The syringe"

One of these lovely things:
http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/3306623071_6419bba6ca.j pg
It's a device that allows you to inject an extract Potion (or poison) directly into the body of a creature as a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature targeted. To hit an unwilling target you must succeed on an attack roll just as with a regular attack.
It’s main use is to apply a healing extract or potion to an ally who would not be able to drink it otherwise, such as an unconscious or grappling one. I have saved a lot of allies with this, I can tell you!

Feats:

Controlled explosion [Bomb]
Prerequisites: Alchemist, Disable device skill rank 3.
By expending one of his daily uses of bomb the Alchemist receives circumstance bonus on one disable device check equal to his class level.

The last resort [Bomb]
Prerequisites: Alchemist, BAB +3.
The Alchemist may detonate a bomb on her person while grappling as a standard action. The opponent she grapples takes damage as if she’d been hit with a direct hit whilst the Alchemist takes normal splash damage.


I like the feats, but the equipment tinkers with certain concepts of the alchemist that you probably shouldn't. Particularly:

-The bomb launchers hold multiple shots, but the alchemist must normally spend a standard action to prepare and throw a single bomb. Is the alchemist priming shots individually? Have you considered the implications for an alchemist using feats like rapid shot/iterative attacks? It would seem they'd dish more damage than a rogue's full sneak attack routine, from 50 ft. away, as ranged touch attacks, plus splash damage.

-You can normally administer potions to incapacitated allies, so either the bioshock needle-gun is pure fluff, or it skirts the need for the infusion discovery, which is what you normally need to share extracts with allies.

The Exchange

Administering a potion to an unconscious ally is, if I'm not mistaken, a full-round action. Having equipment that allows you to do this as a standard action (assuming you also have the Infusion discovery) makes this a godsend. Especially if you could have special darts that contain the potions/extracts and fire them from a blowgun. Sure, you would do 1 point of damage, but you could do it at a range if need be. Hey, it might be weird, but if it works then someone'll do it


Maeloke wrote:

I like the feats, but the equipment tinkers with certain concepts of the alchemist that you probably shouldn't. Particularly:

-The bomb launchers hold multiple shots, but the alchemist must normally spend a standard action to prepare and throw a single bomb. Is the alchemist priming shots individually? Have you considered the implications for an alchemist using feats like rapid shot/iterative attacks? It would seem they'd dish more damage than a rogue's full sneak attack routine, from 50 ft. away, as ranged touch attacks, plus splash damage.

-You can normally administer potions to incapacitated allies, so either the bioshock needle-gun is pure fluff, or it skirts the need for the infusion discovery, which is what you normally need to share extracts with allies.

I am a victim of my own laziness and never bothered to add that you still can't attack more often than what is usually possible with those weapons. :)

For instance, if you want to be able to make more than 1 attack in a round you must have:

A) a BAB of +6 or more. B) the "Fast Bomb" discovery. In fact since the magazines have a limited capacity, you might need to waste some time to reload it occasionally.

And let's not forget about disarms, brrr!

Rapid shot is a possibility with bombs as a whole, not just these weapons. I'm still waiting for the book to see the final judgment on that...

Also, like Hunterofthedusk puts it, the syringe let's you use a potion on a knocked out party member as a standard action rather than a full-round action. My party's sorcerer owns her life to that thing (and me) three times over. :D

The old image of the syringe seem to have disapered. Here is another one:

http://www.wonderlandblog.co/.a/6a00d834515f7269e20111689c22f4970c-800wi

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the criticism, btw!

The Exchange

Yeah, one of my party members almost died this past session because I couldn't move to him and administer a potion in the same round. Luckily, he made his save to stabilize that round. In hindsight, I guess I could have cast Bear's Endurance on him. Oh well, he lived ;)


My Alchemist discovery

New Discovery: Re-Animation Elixir
Injected into a corpse less than 24 hours old this Elixir re-animates the remains as a mockery of life itself. The Alchemist may re-animate any corpse this way up to half his class levels in HD. Hit Dice gained from classes gained in life are not concidered. Its stats remain the same except for constitution which it is no longer treated as having. The corpse does not need to be whole for the Elixir to work.

For every hour since the creatures death it re-animates with 1 point of intelligence less that it originally had and it loses an additional point per hour. These points can be regained only through the Regeneration spell. The recipient of the elixir may be Ressurected in the normal way.

The recipient of the elixir may not even realise that it has died if killed through non-violent means. If it does realise the recipient spirals into insanity and rage. Within a short time they become comatose

On very rare occasions (DM dependent) the victim doesn't lose intelligence. Such creatures usually come about after the re-animation elixir has been injected into a creature that has died non-violently. These poor souls are generally unaware of their undead status until the creeping realisation that they no longer feel hungry and can not sleep. Wounds do not heal, neither do they bruise. Spellcasters lose any spells memorised before death and can not regain them since they can not rest.

Once the creatures intelligence reaches zero it becomes a standard fast zombie.

The creature so animated gains the undead template


I think the effect and usage of the syringe is too nonsensical even for my amount of suspension of disbelief.

Half the time I get a nurse at the doctors office who couldn't find the right place to put a needle if they had a road map and two hours on their hands. This is not only saying that they could do it in the amount of time it takes to swing a sword, but that they could do it and the injectee wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

@Spacelard
I like the Lovecraft idea, but I think it might be a little too complicated. Make it more like a ritual (with the alchemist changing the levels of chemicals to fit the body) than a simple tap on the arm and it might work better.


Dedwrekka wrote:

I think the effect and usage of the syringe is too nonsensical even for my amount of suspension of disbelief.

Half the time I get a nurse at the doctors office who couldn't find the right place to put a needle if they had a road map and two hours on their hands. This is not only saying that they could do it in the amount of time it takes to swing a sword, but that they could do it and the injectee wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Well he could DODGE. :P

Also this isn't Gurps we're playing, it's Pathfinder. The rules are already a little lax when magic comes into the equation so I don't see a problem with getting creative with medical utensils.

The Exchange

Well, I personally think that the idea of a syringe has merit. Keep in mind that (at least in my vision of it) the syringe would be doing damage to the recipient (1 damage, as it is not an ideal weapon for causing wounds), representing that they did not take the time to apply the needle with finesse, and you could easily reason that when used in this manner the syringes become worthless afterwords due to the damage. Also, in addition to the -4 non-proficiency penalty, I would say that without an exotic weapon proficiency you would draw an AoO whenever making an attack with one against a non-willing target. For a willing target, success is automatic (except in the case of blow-dart potions).


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Well, I personally think that the idea of a syringe has merit. Keep in mind that (at least in my vision of it) the syringe would be doing damage to the recipient (1 damage, as it is not an ideal weapon for causing wounds), representing that they did not take the time to apply the needle with finesse, and you could easily reason that when used in this manner the syringes become worthless afterwords due to the damage. Also, in addition to the -4 non-proficiency penalty, I would say that without an exotic weapon proficiency you would draw an AoO whenever making an attack with one against a non-willing target. For a willing target, success is automatic (except in the case of blow-dart potions).

I agree that it would be good if they did some damage that way. It would make using them a bit more exiting to use.

The version we used were not one shot weapons though but an (exotic) melee weapon (that looks like the picture above) whic had to be preloaded with a potion or an extract. I used my syringe a lot and got quite attached to it after a while.


Okay, so, all we need is a refinement of rules:

Potion Syringe- This device is essentially a large needle with a handle and an open clamp in back, designed to accommodate most standard potion vials. If loaded with a potion, a vial of poison or other alchemical substance, or an alchemist's extract, it can be used to inject its payload in an adjacent creature. Doing so is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity and requires an attack roll against the target (helpless or willing targets are hit automatically). Being hit with the needle deals 1 damage, after which the contents of the syringe are injected. The syringe only holds a single dose or potion, and takes a full round to reload.

About this: it rides the line between device and exotic weapon, but it makes for better rules control to just have it be a device. I like the idea of adding it in as a bonus on an attack - picture a rogue sneak attacking with the thing, shooting the baddies full of poison and then doing 1+4d6 damage with attacks 2 and 3. Unfortunately, potions are supposed to be a standard action with AOO, so I think it's gotta nonweapon.

Even so, unless the things weigh or cost a lot (wondrous item?), most characters will immediately buy a whole set; the utility is pretty ridiculous, never mind the cool factor of having a whole holster of needles with crazy vials attached.


@Syringe

You can rule also that it must cause damage to inject its payload. So, monsters with DR would be like "WHAT?! You broke my needle, bastard! Do you know how much it costs?! Damn... time to buy that adamant/silver/cold iron needles."


The Fool wrote:


The old image of the syringe seem to have disapered. Here is another one:

http://www.wonderlandblog.co/.a/6a00d834515f7269e20111689c22f4970c-800wi

it didn't disappear... there is a space i "jpg" if you remove it it shows up fine... and it tells me the above link "can't find the server"


Eberron had some good syringe rules. They were called bloodspikes if I remember correctly. Fun stuff for an alchemist.

The Exchange

Goblinoid Toad wrote:
Eberron had some good syringe rules. They were called bloodspikes if I remember correctly. Fun stuff for an alchemist.

You are correct, they are from Magic of Eberron. They weren't used to deliver potions, there were 5 specific varieties. They were stil pretty neat


Goblinoid Toad wrote:
Eberron had some good syringe rules. They were called bloodspikes if I remember correctly. Fun stuff for an alchemist.

I love those things! We had several campaigns that centered around the Mournlands. I eventually allowed a slight alternate version of the Alchemical Healing Salve from the 3.0 Tome and Blood that could be used with the Blood Spikes as a non-magical alternate version of healing.


The Fool wrote:
Dedwrekka wrote:

I think the effect and usage of the syringe is too nonsensical even for my amount of suspension of disbelief.

Half the time I get a nurse at the doctors office who couldn't find the right place to put a needle if they had a road map and two hours on their hands. This is not only saying that they could do it in the amount of time it takes to swing a sword, but that they could do it and the injectee wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Well he could DODGE. :P

Also this isn't Gurps we're playing, it's Pathfinder. The rules are already a little lax when magic comes into the equation so I don't see a problem with getting creative with medical utensils.

So I coat my dagger with a healing potion and it becomes a healing shiv?

The Exchange

Dedwrekka wrote:
So I coat my dagger with a healing potion and it becomes a healing shiv?

That's not really an effective delivery system as potions are all watery and would just run off the blade, not allowing you to administer the concoction... I've seen DMs allow weirder stuff, though. Oh, and sarcasm doesn't help you make your point.


Dedwrekka wrote:
The Fool wrote:
Dedwrekka wrote:

I think the effect and usage of the syringe is too nonsensical even for my amount of suspension of disbelief.

Half the time I get a nurse at the doctors office who couldn't find the right place to put a needle if they had a road map and two hours on their hands. This is not only saying that they could do it in the amount of time it takes to swing a sword, but that they could do it and the injectee wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Well he could DODGE. :P

Also this isn't Gurps we're playing, it's Pathfinder. The rules are already a little lax when magic comes into the equation so I don't see a problem with getting creative with medical utensils.

So I coat my dagger with a healing potion and it becomes a healing shiv?

LOL


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Dedwrekka wrote:
So I coat my dagger with a healing potion and it becomes a healing shiv?
That's not really an effective delivery system as potions are all watery and would just run off the blade, not allowing you to administer the concoction... I've seen DMs allow weirder stuff, though. Oh, and sarcasm doesn't help you make your point.

Just pointing out that if you can just stick a needle in anywhere and push the potion in quick as you like, and have it be believable, that you could just pour it into cuts and have it be believable (Last Crusade style healing potion), or just force it down their throats (not that hard to do).

...or you could just say you make the potion a little thick and stick it on a sword. Same dif.


Dedwrekka wrote:
Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Dedwrekka wrote:
So I coat my dagger with a healing potion and it becomes a healing shiv?
That's not really an effective delivery system as potions are all watery and would just run off the blade, not allowing you to administer the concoction... I've seen DMs allow weirder stuff, though. Oh, and sarcasm doesn't help you make your point.

Just pointing out that if you can just stick a needle in anywhere and push the potion in quick as you like, and have it be believable, that you could just pour it into cuts and have it be believable (Last Crusade style healing potion), or just force it down their throats (not that hard to do).

...or you could just say you make the potion a little thick and stick it on a sword. Same dif.

Well it is quite a big difference there.

A syringe is actually designed to pump a liquid into something, whilst a sword is designed to do damage to flesh.

In the game it's possible to smear stuff onto a blade and have it effect a character. Poison works that way, magical potions doesn't, but they aren't really dependent on the gastronomical system either. A lich with no functioning organs can benefit from a potion just as much as a human could.

That's also why I wanted this device to be an exotic weapon. It shouldn't be something everyone could use straight out of the blue...

I like your idea of salve-like healing potions though. That too would save a lot of time on the battle field.

The Exchange

Applying oils to a helpless character is also a full-round action


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Applying oils to a helpless character is also a full-round action

Mental image there is just a little off-putting...


Maeloke wrote:
Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Applying oils to a helpless character is also a full-round action
Mental image there is just a little off-putting...

"It rubs the lotion on its skin, or it will get the hose again."


Lokie wrote:
Maeloke wrote:
Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Applying oils to a helpless character is also a full-round action
Mental image there is just a little off-putting...
"It rubs the lotion on its skin, or it will get the hose again."

Sounds just about something my character would say. ;) He's not keen on moths though...


Howdy. Long time lurker, first time poster. I had an idea for an alchemist discovery and have used it in a PF game for two sessions now. Check it out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alchemical Missile: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can use two of his bombs and any single arrow, bolt or bullet to create an Alchemical missile. An Alchemical missile deals it's standard damage as well as the bomb's damage on a successful attack. On a miss it deals it's splash damage centered on the missed target. Alchemical missiles are treated exactly as an alchemist's bomb except they are no longer a thrown weapon, and do not require a standard action to fire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It uses two bombs because I can see this being a bit powerful in the sense that the bomb stacks with a missile weapon so it has some increased damage. However, it is also, in most cases, less likely to hit as it is a standard ranged attack rather then a ranged touch attack. There is also the added range to consider in relation to a thrown bomb's 20ft entry. The ammunition cannot be handed to another party member as a bomb cannot (To my knowledge). So there is no problem with an alchemist handing a few Alchemical missiles to the party rogue and having them stack with sneak attack. If the alchemist is a rogue himself, I see no problem with the stacking as a bomb's damage increases by 1d6 every other level just as a rogue's sneak attack.

And now a feat I thought up.. it's pretty basic. >_>

Extra Bombs
Prerequisites: Bomb class feature
Benefit: You receive two extra bombs a day.
Special:You can gain Extra Bombs multiple times, it's effects stack.


Carlos Torres wrote:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alchemical Missile: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can use two of his bombs and any single arrow, bolt or bullet to create an Alchemical missile. An Alchemical missile deals it's standard damage as well as the bomb's damage on a successful attack. On a miss it deals it's splash damage centered on the missed target. Alchemical missiles are treated exactly as an alchemist's bomb except they are no longer a thrown weapon, and do not require a standard action to fire.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember that the standard bomb's restriction is that is must be fired on the same turn that it was made or else the bomb becomes inert. I don't think it's really necessary to make it use 2 bombs because of this fact. Otherwise, this seems really interesting.


Mmmm. Well let's tweak it then. So, let's say when made it lasts until used, much like a extract, and it uses up a bomb slot until it is used or the Alchemist decides to use the slot for something else... once again, like an extract.

Maybe the two bomb use is a bit harsh? I'm not sure. Maybe it should be allowed to be given to someone else?

The main reasoning I had behind the two bomb use was that this adds to a standard ranged weapon like a light cross bow; let's say that light crossbow was enchanted with Shock or something akin to it. Not only is the bomb's range now the cross bow's range (80ft), it's damage includes the crossbow's 1d8piercing + 1d6electric. The only downside to all of this being it is now a ranged attack rather then a ranged touch attack. If this does not warrant the use of the second bomb then I'd be more then happy with it being the standard one bomb.

Thoughts, comments?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My, I forgot to add the Discoveries!

Knock-out gas:

This bomb creates a cloud of transparent gas filling an area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round. The effects of the smoke created by an
alchemist’s bomb can duplicate the effects of the Sleep spell except as mentioned below.
Creatures within the area must make a Fortitude save or fall asleep for 1 minute/per Alchemist level. When the attack is made the attacker rolls bomb damage as per usual. The result determines how many HD he can effect.
An alchemist must possess the smoke bomb discovery before selecting this discovery.

Bomb Blast (the name sucks, I know!):

An Alchemist can overcharge a bomb when he makes it, resulting in to explode in a 30 ft a cone shaped blast. The blast deals twice the usual amount of splash damage, but can’t make direct hits. This discovery can be used in combination with other discoveries that change the damage type of your bombs, but you can’t use it with Fast bombs.
An Alchemist must be 10th level or above to select this Discovery.

I made some more, but in hindsight I don't think they were any good.

Cheers!

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