Witch Familiar, Really Pig? No Monkey?


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest

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The pig sounds fun, but thinking about it for a moment, how should you adventure with a PIG in tow?
A pig is a big and heavy beast, the first climb check could be the end of your partnership because it can't climb and you can't really carry it, you can't take it with you into formal locations and the impression on authorities if you bring a pig to an audience, well.....

On the other hand, the wizard gets monkey and weasel, both are fun and can look after themselves a bit, that is important for a witch familiar because you have a problem if your familiar dies. I could really see a jungle with with a monkey, sounds great. So why no monkey or weasel?


Also, I'm pretty sure that every animal ever thinks that pigs are tasty and will immediately go for the pig when the fight breaks out to try and eat it.

God forbid you and your party get stuck out in the middle of nowhere and no one has any ranks in survival and there is no more food and everyone is just staring at the delicious looking bacon factory next to you.

Most.Expensive.Meal.Ever.


The Bane Company wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure that every animal ever thinks that pigs are tasty and will immediately go for the pig when the fight breaks out to try and eat it.

God forbid you and your party get stuck out in the middle of nowhere and no one has any ranks in survival and there is no more food and everyone is just staring at the delicious looking bacon factory next to you.

Most.Expensive.Meal.Ever.

and maybe the group has a druid with a predator as companion,

just imagine the pig sitting innocently at one side of the campfire, on the other side a wolf or leppard licking its lips in anticipation


Maybe some one really wanted to use the Pig Farmer miniature...

Liberty's Edge

If a witch had a pig familiar in any group containing me they would quickly end up with a BBQ familiar.

Sovereign Court

I like the concept, I know if I had a witch, that would be the animal I chose, and a pig doesn't necessarily have to be a farm bread, teacup potbelly pigs are still pigs and can be picked up and carried.


The pig was often the "pet" of those who were thought to have magical powers. A pig is a very smart animal and a classic for a witch. Greek priestesses often had pigs as animal friends. Pigs in the wild are mean as well. You do not want to meet a ferial pig with no protection he will turn you into lunch. Look up monster pig in google and you wont laugh at a pig any more.


Also a pig was a pet that if times got hard you could eat it I know a pathfinder witch would never but bacon is good ham is good.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Also pretty much the entire editorial staff watches True Blood, soooo....


Erik Mona wrote:

Also pretty much the entire editorial staff watches True Blood, soooo....

Is that a good show? I watched the last part of a show and was lost in the plot. I also have problems with "good" vampires, are there ones that really like to be vamps cus if so I might give it a try.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Yerv Kinkash wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Also pretty much the entire editorial staff watches True Blood, soooo....

Is that a good show? I watched the last part of a show and was lost in the plot. I also have problems with "good" vampires, are there ones that really like to be vamps cus if so I might give it a try.

It actually is quite good. There's certainly "good" vampires in it, but there's also PLENTY of bad vampires. And since it's on HBO, there's PLENTY of gore, sex, violence, and profanity... which is more or less a requirement if you're telling a story about vampires and demons and werewolves and the like.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

The Bane Company wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure that every animal ever thinks that pigs are tasty and will immediately go for the pig when the fight breaks out to try and eat it.

God forbid you and your party get stuck out in the middle of nowhere and no one has any ranks in survival and there is no more food and everyone is just staring at the delicious looking bacon factory next to you.

Most.Expensive.Meal.Ever.

Tears are streaming down my face from the laughter. Thank you.


James Jacobs wrote:
Yerv Kinkash wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Also pretty much the entire editorial staff watches True Blood, soooo....

Is that a good show? I watched the last part of a show and was lost in the plot. I also have problems with "good" vampires, are there ones that really like to be vamps cus if so I might give it a try.
It actually is quite good. There's certainly "good" vampires in it, but there's also PLENTY of bad vampires. And since it's on HBO, there's PLENTY of gore, sex, violence, and profanity... which is more or less a requirement if you're telling a story about vampires and demons and werewolves and the like.

So not just vamps but other creatures I think Ill order the first season. Thanks James

Dark Archive

Yerv Kinkash wrote:


So not just vamps but other creatures I think Ill order the first season. Thanks James

First season was *very* good. The sound track is amazing, ("I wanna do. Bad things With you") now I'm just resisting the temptation not to buy all the books and hence ruin the rest of the series they may make.


remember pigs are also boars and javelina. Hogzilla was a pig as well


Mark Thomas wrote:
The Bane Company wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure that every animal ever thinks that pigs are tasty and will immediately go for the pig when the fight breaks out to try and eat it.

God forbid you and your party get stuck out in the middle of nowhere and no one has any ranks in survival and there is no more food and everyone is just staring at the delicious looking bacon factory next to you.

Most.Expensive.Meal.Ever.

Tears are streaming down my face from the laughter. Thank you.

You're welcome. :)


Mark Thomas wrote:
The Bane Company wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure that every animal ever thinks that pigs are tasty and will immediately go for the pig when the fight breaks out to try and eat it.

God forbid you and your party get stuck out in the middle of nowhere and no one has any ranks in survival and there is no more food and everyone is just staring at the delicious looking bacon factory next to you.

Most.Expensive.Meal.Ever.

Tears are streaming down my face from the laughter. Thank you.

+1

DUDE! We even laugh at the same jokes.


Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.

Sovereign Court

Frostflame wrote:
Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.

they suffocate inn a bag of holding


Pig and goat are classic witch familiars I for one am glad they included them

Grand Lodge

lastknightleft wrote:
Frostflame wrote:
Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.
they suffocate inn a bag of holding

bloodless bacon


lastknightleft wrote:
Frostflame wrote:
Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.
they suffocate inn a bag of holding

"If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate."

As long as combat doesn't take more than like 600 rounds, i think the familiar will be ok.

Although a 600 round battle. Hmnn... there's an idea in there somewhere. I just know there is.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Pig Familiar Small enough to fit in a Witch's purse, and not meaty enough to make good eatin's.

Other Useful Information About Pigs

I would still like to see a Monkey familiar... possibly with the winged template. The vest and fez should cost extra.


Pigs are as intelligent as most dogs and surprisingly fast and agile. Not all breeds are as slow as the domestic pig.

Sovereign Court

The Bane Company wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Frostflame wrote:
Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.
they suffocate inn a bag of holding

"If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate."

As long as combat doesn't take more than like 600 rounds, i think the familiar will be ok.

Although a 600 round battle. Hmnn... there's an idea in there somewhere. I just know there is.

He also said "when it comes to climbing". The kind of climbing that only takes 10 minutes isn't the kind of climbing that having a pig with you is likely to present much of a challange. 50ft of rope will be a better solution since that's probably easier to just tie the rope around the pig and haul them up after you, but whatever.

Sovereign Court

Thraxus wrote:
Pigs are as intelligent as most dogs and surprisingly fast and agile. Not all breeds are as slow as the domestic pig.

The domestic pig isn't even as slow as most people think. A domestic pig can run just as fast as a human in many circumstances.


ok,ok, so there are hardcore pigs who could be adventure-y
(but the big problem remains: the animal is very big for a familiar, and the witch will have a very hard time protcting it, same thing with the goat)

but why no monkey for the witch?

Sovereign Court

aeglos wrote:

ok,ok, so there are hardcore pigs who could be adventure-y

(but the big problem remains: the animal is very big for a familiar, and the witch will have a very hard time protcting it, same thing with the goat)

but why no monkey for the witch?

once again you are assuming a farm pig, there are just as easily available breeds of pigs that (I've had as housepets) are smaller than dogs and only slightly larger than cats (and good luck trying to catch them, they'll outrun you every time). The goat is more problematic than the pig because there are fewer varieties and less range in size even the smallest are the size of mid-size dogs, but they also don't pose much of a threat. No-one is going to see a goat in combat and think, oh I'll take the time out from getting stabbed by this gentleman and roasted alive by that lady to stab a goat. And what if you just travel with 3-4 goats, how is the goat slayer supposed to know which goat to hit? if he wants to waste three rounds killing the decoy goats well that's 3 rounds he's not hitting heroes that they're hitting him.

As to why no monkeys well that's a seperate discussion that I'm not gonna guess at, probably to give variety between casters familiars.


The pig farmer miniature is CARRYING a pig.
A goat is somewhat more problematic...


lastknightleft wrote:
The Bane Company wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Frostflame wrote:
Actually the pig and goat familiar was the first thing that stuck out to me as awkward in the game of how you are going to move them about in tough situations, and of course the constant threat of becoming breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Well heres a solution i came up with now on the fly stick them into a bag of holding when it comes to climbing or when a dangerous encounter comes up.
they suffocate inn a bag of holding

"If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate."

As long as combat doesn't take more than like 600 rounds, i think the familiar will be ok.

Although a 600 round battle. Hmnn... there's an idea in there somewhere. I just know there is.

He also said "when it comes to climbing". The kind of climbing that only takes 10 minutes isn't the kind of climbing that having a pig with you is likely to present much of a challange. 50ft of rope will be a better solution since that's probably easier to just tie the rope around the pig and haul them up after you, but whatever.

Before one goes and ties a rope to a pig, you climb at a quarter of your speed at a DC 5 if someone went ahead and tied a rope ahead of you. 2 move actions a round to climb. Even if your speed is 20ft, that's 10 ft a round. So unless you roll a 1 or the wall you are climbing is higher than 1000 ft or your friends are jerks and no one has any rope, i think it'll be ok throwing Ms Piggy in a Handy Haversack and climbing your way to victory.

You could also tie yourself to a piton and let him have some air every 9 minutes/900 feet.


Guinea pigs!

Your familiar issue has been solved ;p

-runs!

-S

Shadow Lodge

Selgard wrote:

Guinea pigs!

Your familiar issue has been solved ;p

-runs!

-S

YES! +10


I'm glad they included the pig...it caters to at least one literary/mythological source: Henwen the prophetic pig from the Chronicles of Prydain (loosely based on Welsh mythology)...

So power to the pigs!


Well, I'm sure that the Pig Familiar would be included into the Bestiary II, and I believe that its size would be more or less comparable to this one...

As you can see, the little Babe is about the size of a common duck - it should be Tiny at best.

Easy to carry along, I might add (of course, there IS the problem of the rest of the world wanting to kill it and eat it, but let's face it - it would not be easy for a common predator to kill a Pig Familiar, since it has half the maximum hp of the Witch...)


The Wraith wrote:

Well, I'm sure that the Pig Familiar would be included into the Bestiary II, and I believe that its size would be more or less comparable to this one...

As you can see, the little Babe is about the size of a common duck - it should be Tiny at best.

Easy to carry along, I might add (of course, there IS the problem of the rest of the world wanting to kill it and eat it, but let's face it - it would not be easy for a common predator to kill a Pig Familiar, since it has half the maximum hp of the Witch...)

At first level with max hp and no con score, 3 hp is not very much at all. :/

and at second level, with max hp and no con score, 6 hp is not very much. It would be devastating at first level when replacing it is 500gp. More than you get for starter gold even if your DM loves you and gives you max gold, even worse if you're getting wizard average gold (70gp). 1000gp at 2nd level is also pretty steep. That's at least a few battles without spells and only your hexes to carry you. and 6 damage can easily be inflicted by creatures you'll face at those levels. Even the random dog does 1d4+1. A familiar would be taken down in no time. :(

Alas, it seems that the witch familiar will never see anything resembling battle.

Also, I'm glad they put in the pig too. Ever since I saw that mini, I knew i wanted to play a class with it. Now i have an option other than that one time I played as a commoner named Billy William Walker the severely underpowered and almost useless(he could Handle Animal and Perform(Jig) like nobody's business) PC and his pet pig Ornery. Things are looking up.

Sovereign Court

The Bane Company wrote:
The Wraith wrote:

Well, I'm sure that the Pig Familiar would be included into the Bestiary II, and I believe that its size would be more or less comparable to this one...

As you can see, the little Babe is about the size of a common duck - it should be Tiny at best.

Easy to carry along, I might add (of course, there IS the problem of the rest of the world wanting to kill it and eat it, but let's face it - it would not be easy for a common predator to kill a Pig Familiar, since it has half the maximum hp of the Witch...)

At first level with max hp and no con score, 3 hp is not very much at all. :/

and at second level, with max hp and no con score, 6 hp is not very much. It would be devastating at first level when replacing it is 500gp. More than you get for starter gold even if your DM loves you and gives you max gold, even worse if you're getting wizard average gold (70gp). 1000gp at 2nd level is also pretty steep. That's at least a few battles without spells and only your hexes to carry you. and 6 damage can easily be inflicted by creatures you'll face at those levels. Even the random dog does 1d4+1. A familiar would be taken down in no time. :(

Alas, it seems that the witch familiar will never see anything resembling battle.

Also, I'm glad they put in the pig too. Ever since I saw that mini, I knew i wanted to play a class with it. Now i have an option other than that one time I played as a commoner named Billy William Walker the severely underpowered and almost useless(he could Handle Animal and Perform(Jig) like nobody's business) PC and his pet pig Ornery. Things are looking up.

but buying 5 pigs is only like 10gp at best and having 6 pigs running around you and if someone manages to get your actual familiar they are a lucky bastard.


Why stop at 5? 20 pigs is a good investment if it keeps my familiar safe.


...and then someone drops a blade barrier on you and then you have Deli-goodness!!!!


The Bane Company wrote:


Also, I'm glad they put in the pig too. Ever since I saw that mini, I knew i wanted to play a class with it. Now i have an option other than that one time I played as a commoner named Billy William Walker the severely underpowered and almost useless(he could Handle Animal and Perform(Jig) like nobody's business) PC and his pet pig Ornery. Things are looking up.

One of our players insist on using his Pig Farmer miniature for roughly everything. Drives the DM crazy. I think he almost lost it when he realized 2 other people had it too and were thinking of forming a Pig Farmer party.

Sovereign Court

Piety Godfury wrote:
...and then someone drops a blade barrier on you and then you have Deli-goodness!!!!

In all honesty I'd love to see a person manage to get to 5-10 pigs when they aren't trapped in a pen and your shooting him full of arrows.


Cartigan wrote:
The Bane Company wrote:


Also, I'm glad they put in the pig too. Ever since I saw that mini, I knew i wanted to play a class with it. Now i have an option other than that one time I played as a commoner named Billy William Walker the severely underpowered and almost useless(he could Handle Animal and Perform(Jig) like nobody's business) PC and his pet pig Ornery. Things are looking up.
One of our players insist on using his Pig Farmer miniature for roughly everything. Drives the DM crazy. I think he almost lost it when he realized 2 other people had it too and were thinking of forming a Pig Farmer party.

Lol. I have a player that loves the lizardman mini. It got to the point that every time he doesn't use it, I can't keep track of which mini is his. I keep on looking for lizardman.

And if you use the handle animal skill, you can teach them tricks. :) It'd take time, but defend, attack, guard, or heel would all be good candidates for controlling your mass of walking ham sandwiches.


lastknightleft wrote:
Piety Godfury wrote:
...and then someone drops a blade barrier on you and then you have Deli-goodness!!!!
In all honesty I'd love to see a person manage to get to 5-10 pigs when they aren't trapped in a pen and your shooting him full of arrows.

Blade Barrier, unless they've changed it, is an erea effect spell

Shadow Lodge

Everyone's worried about the pig, but what do you do when someone wants to play a witch with an octopus familiar? You make kalimari, that's what!


they may not drop the spell just for that reason.

Sovereign Court

Piety Godfury wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Piety Godfury wrote:
...and then someone drops a blade barrier on you and then you have Deli-goodness!!!!
In all honesty I'd love to see a person manage to get to 5-10 pigs when they aren't trapped in a pen and your shooting him full of arrows.
Blade Barrier, unless they've changed it, is an erea effect spell

Sorta it's a wall or a ring, unless all of your pigs are standing in a line, (I'd assume you'd just let them wonder aimlessly) then you're either penning them inside or not getting all of them. maybe on the surprise round you could possibly get them all if they're traveling in a heard.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Everyone's worried about the pig, but what do you do when someone wants to play a witch with an octopus familiar? You make kalimari, that's what!

Served with lemon and accompanied by ouzo it makes a great appetizer...Unless your playing in an aquatic environment how do you transport it around. A fishbowl is to small, and would be just awkward. Not to mention it needs a saltwater environment to survive. Plus I dont see the witch lugging around a tank big enough for it to be able to fit comfortably. Tying a rope around a pig or goat for climbing is a good solution. Of course the familiar might have other opinions. Even though I like all three familiars they seem too much of a liability to me especially at the lower levels.


Frostflame wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Everyone's worried about the pig, but what do you do when someone wants to play a witch with an octopus familiar? You make kalimari, that's what!
Served with lemon and accompanied by ouzo it makes a great appetizer...Unless your playing in an aquatic environment how do you transport it around. A fishbowl is to small, and would be just awkward. Not to mention it needs a saltwater environment to survive. Plus I dont see the witch lugging around a tank big enough for it to be able to fit comfortably. Tying a rope around a pig or goat for climbing is a good solution. Of course the familiar might have other opinions. Even though I like all three familiars they seem too much of a liability to me especially at the lower levels.

Hmm, it looks like some people here are unaware of a lesser known octopus variety found in the Pacific Northwest. I submit to you The Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus

I suggest doing a google image search for the "Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus" to see some wonderful images of this beast in its natural habitat.

The short of it is, a witch's octopus familiar can probably get along just fine both in and out of water.


Caedwyr wrote:


Hmm, it looks like some people here are unaware of a lesser known octopus variety found in the Pacific Northwest. I submit to you The Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus

[url=http://images.google.com/images?q=tree+octopus&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=okVrS_raFdTg8QaD4dGVCQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBwQsAQwAw]Here is a link[/url[ to some pictures of this lesser known variety of cephalopod.

The short of it is, a witch's octopus familiar can probably get along just fine both in and out of water.

that rules!

Liberty's Edge

Caedwyr wrote:
Frostflame wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
Everyone's worried about the pig, but what do you do when someone wants to play a witch with an octopus familiar? You make kalimari, that's what!
Served with lemon and accompanied by ouzo it makes a great appetizer...Unless your playing in an aquatic environment how do you transport it around. A fishbowl is to small, and would be just awkward. Not to mention it needs a saltwater environment to survive. Plus I dont see the witch lugging around a tank big enough for it to be able to fit comfortably. Tying a rope around a pig or goat for climbing is a good solution. Of course the familiar might have other opinions. Even though I like all three familiars they seem too much of a liability to me especially at the lower levels.

Hmm, it looks like some people here are unaware of a lesser known octopus variety found in the Pacific Northwest. I submit to you The Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus

I suggest doing a google image search for the "Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus" to see some wonderful images of this beast in its natural habitat.

The short of it is, a witch's octopus familiar can probably get along just fine both in and out of water.

The Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus Hoax

You almost had me...it's actually a fairly plausible idea 2bh.

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