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Final Revelation (Wind)
Upon reaching 20th level, you become
a master of air and electricity. You can apply any one of
the following feats to any air or electricity spell without
increasing the level or casting time: Enlarge Spell, Extend
Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell.
I don't get this. They don't have any electricity spells do they?
And they don't have that many air spells.
gust of wind, control winds, Wind Wall, Wind Walk, Air Walk
But overland flight isn't one neither is storm of vengeance or control weather.
In fact they have no air or electricity damage spells. A bit weak Isn't it?
You're forgetting that the APG has new spells.
You're forgetting that the APG has new spells.
It's still confusing. I just want to point out that it's odd. And we don't know clerics will get any electricity spells or new Air spells.
If wind is about manipulateing air and electricity shouldn't he have some sort of electricity spell among his bonus spells?Look at the Flame bonus spells:
produce flame (3rd), resist energy (5th), fireball (7th), wall of fire (9th), summon monster V (fire elementals only, 11th), fire seeds (13th), fire storm (15th), incendiary cloud (17th), elemental swarm (fire only, 19th).
Wind do look weak.
I agree with the OP, and I'll also add that I find the Flame/Wind/Stone/Water Final revelations to be kinda boring compared to the rest of Pathfiner's capstone abilities.
I agree with the OP, and I'll also add that I find the Flame/Wind/Stone/Water Final revelations to be kinda boring compared to the rest of Pathfiner's capstone abilities.Seconded. All the non-elemental capstone powers are really cool, these seem really vanilla. I never got the whole 'all elements are created equal' logic; the whole point of the four elements is that they're wildly different. Earth is stable and solid and unmovable, water is fluid and flowing and purifying, etc.
The problem with builts that are based on concepts, like the elements, are that the creator must find spells tied to that concept.
A healing concept is no problem but Wind? - Hey lets see if we can find any air spells.It doesn't matter if the suck or are too good. Just as long as the fit the concept. Often this lead to balance issues. The concept becomes a straitjacket. You can see the same problem with the witch.
I agree that the problem with four elements outlook is that mostly they tend to be pull out damage effect X and insert damage effect Y.
The trouble is that their often isn't a solid concept to damage effects in the background upon which a consistant development is based.
Personally, I would prefer something that has more grit in the concept.
I mean, do you want to be a Wind/Air Oracle or a Tempest Oracle.
Which is more evocative; an Earth/Stone Oracle or an Earthquake Oracle?
Many elements like Fire and Water have associations with things like Volcanism and Tidal Waves that could be the base for a very strong concept to build a meaty development.
You can also choose to go with some thought on keeping the traditional ideas of Water is liked to cold and go with Glacier Oracle.
I think that if the developers broke out a thesaurus and wrote down some words assoicated with air, earth, fire, and water that they could get the ideas to develop a perkier concept set instead of the four flavours of vanilla.
That said, I am happy that the power lists have gotten worked over and some of the powers and times have been improved.
As an additional note, there is only one acid spell available to the 20th level Stone oracle, unless I've missed something. Acid Arrow.
Have fun enlarging that, Stone oracle! If you ever cast a 2nd level damage spell in 20th level combats, that is. Utterly useless.
Those capstones need some serious work.
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You're right. There are no electricity spells on the Oracle list.
I found this out when I went to go make a high level Wind oracle for a playtest. It's an excellent showcase of why design by copy paste isn't a good idea.
But they also improved the damage on the Wind damage abilities.
Lightning Breath went from 1d4 per level to a maximum of 10d4 to a straight 1d4 per level with no maximum.
Thunderburst got the range defined and damage typed to bludgeoning (avoids Sonic damage issue). Damage is 1d6 per level with no maximum.
Wind Sight remains at rounds per level. I think this is too short as it is pretty hard to observe a target when the ability is measured in seconds (6 sec to the round) of duration compared to regular clairvoyance ro clairaudience which lasts min per level.
Wind kicks now more then it did in the original.
The big advantage with the final revelation is that you get to apply those feats unlimited times a day to spells.
Still, I don't worry much on level 20 capstone abilities because I just rarely get to epic level play.
Those capstones need some serious work.
It needs serious work because of how hilariously overpowering the other capstones are.
A battle oracle can take his full attack and move his full speed, can't die unless at x2 his negative CON score (and won't, with combat healer quickening heals to keep him alive) and ignores DR when critting and has a bonus AC against getting crit.
A heavens oracle is immune to fear, gets cha to saves, automatically confirms all criticals, auto-stabilizes if below 0, and if killed, comes back to life in 3 days and to full power in 7 after that.
A nature oracle can turn into a plant or animal. Animal is pointless, but plant gains
• Low-light vision
• Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms,
compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
• Immunity to paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep effects,
and stunning.
• Proficient with its natural weapons only.
• Not proficient with armor.
• Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep.
A lore oracle can cast wish once per day with no component, but can't cast spells with expensive components or make his stats go up. So just a free ressurection spell once per day with no component and a once a day full heal for the party.
Meanwhile, a Stone oracle can enlarge acid arrow.
... Really?!
A battle oracle can take his full attack and move his full speed, can't die unless at x2 his negative CON score (and won't, with combat healer quickening heals to keep him alive) and ignores DR when critting and has a bonus AC against getting crit.
That's basically a monster.
It needs serious work because of how hilariously overpowering the other capstones are.
Those capstones need some serious work.
Well, because of more than that. I agree the other Oracle abilities are all better, some much better. Also, they're all much more interesting.
So, however, are most of the core class capstones. Check out the various sorcerer capstones, or paladin, or even druid's which may be bland but is damn useful. Or rogue. Or bard.
I think one of the main points is that the final Revelation for wind WOULD be useful if it had any good spells to apply it to. I was really disappointed that the bonus spells did not get changed. I know new spells will be added when the APG comes out - BUT they should be added in as the mystery specific bonus spells in my opinion. In other words, rather than making a bunch of new elemental spells available to all in a universal divine spell list - I feel like the air/electricity should be available only to the wind oracle, likewise with ice/water for Waves and so on. To me that improves the flavor of the class and just plain makes sense. The bonus spells should be useful - and honestly - which would you use more - lightning bolt or freedom of movement?
So based on the divine spell list I could take... searing light? Flamestrike? And no doubt I will just to get some offensive fire power. But wouldn't it be so much better for a wind oracle to not need those spells because they actually get a couple of lightening spells? It would certainly make the RP better. Even if they just did an elemental damage type substitute and changed searing light to something called searing bolt and made the type electricity it would help.
I know there is some overlap now with the Heavens mystery but I have a hard time understanding how Heavens gets overland flight at 11 (wind gets it at 13) and then Heavens gets Chain Lightning at 13 (wind does not get it at all). Considering the wind revelations progression has a heavy use of lightning/electricity abilities, it seems like Chain Lightning and Lightning bolt should be added to the wind spell list - and they should be available before they are to the Heavens mystery.
As a side note on the Heavens and Winds stuff - Does it seems like control weather should be a Heavens spell and not a wind spell?
I was also sad to see that the level req for Wings of Air was increased to put it in line with the wings of flame from fire mystery. I felt like wings of air helped to pump up the wind oracle a little bit considering they do not get an elemental shape ability the way fire does but both get flight.
Lastly, I have to agree with Smerg that it would be nice to flesh out the concepts of the elemental oracles so that they are less one dimensional. I was really impressed/intrigued by the new mysteries (I even considered switching over from Wind to Heavens for my playtest campaign).
[...]I see your point to a degree, but the capstone doesn't *have* to be tied into spellcasting[...]
First. I don't think you see my point to a degree. That's partly my fault. I've should probably named this thread differently. This threads isn't just about the capstone. It's about the spells and about wind being a weak mystery.
Second. Agree the capstone doesn't *have* to be tied into spellcasting, but in this case it is.The text: ...you become a master of air and electricity. You can apply any one of the following feats to any air or electricity spell...How come a master of air and electricity don't have any electricity spells?
I know there is some overlap now with the Heavens mystery but I have a hard time understanding how Heavens gets overland flight at 11 (wind gets it at 13) and then Heavens gets Chain Lightning at 13 (wind does not get it at all). Considering the wind revelations progression has a heavy use of lightning/electricity abilities, it seems like Chain Lightning and Lightning bolt should be added to the wind spell list - and they should be available before they are to the Heavens mystery.
I for one agree with KaiLunKat
When you base a Domain, Mystery, Familiar Bonus Spells or a Bloodline on a theme/concept they will usually get messy or get unbalanced. In 3.5 how many chose the Travel or War domain and how many took the Law domain?
I’m not saying Wind is a bad Mystery, I just don’t like the spell list and think the capstone prove there is something wrong.
Just as another illustration of the mismatch of abilities versus spell list with the Wind mystery - the vortex spells revelation is an offensive spell ability that can be taken at 1st level - but what are we supposed to use it with?
The offensive power revelations are great and I would love to be able to use them. But it kind of ruins the RP when your air/electricity master has to cast light and fire spells.
I think another issue that we have all been alluding to is that for wind revelations there is not a lot of flexibility in terms of what a player would actually select to use in game. I find vortex spells, spark skin, and air barrier to be somewhat unattractive choices and I think most people would tend to agree. Then there are 4 revelations that cannot be taken before 7th level. That leaves only 4 choices for levels 1 and 3. My point is that compared to the new mysteries this seems pretty constraining and I am willing to bet that there wouldn't be a lot of variation in revelation builds.
My old build was:
1 - Lightning Breath
3 - deferred to lvl 5 to take Wings of Air
7 - Thunderburst
With the lack of offensive spells I would guess that many people were thinking the same way. You get forced into taking the offensive revelations to compensate for the lack of offensive spells.
I agree with some of what you are saying Kai.
My own, build was
1> Invisibility
3> Wind Sight
7> planning to take Wings of Air
11> planning to take Gaseous Form
The reason for the move of Wings of Air to level 7 was for two things.
i> They don't like giving minutes of flight to characters prior to level 5 (just a design limit that they generally like to keep for GM's balance and adventure design)
ii> Picking revelations is supposed to be like picking known spells, feats, and switching spells. When you get the opportunity then you need to select the ability and can not 'hold' or 'delay' to a later level. The Oracle progression was set at 1, 3, 7 which meant that there could not be a '5' level ability.
They had a few of the '5' level abilities in the playtest that they fixed in this version. I know that there is a feeling that Wind should get it first but we do get the opportunity to reach perferct mastery and 90' per round with flight which are pretty snazzy abilities.
My problem with Vortex is that 'Staggard' as a condition is not very limiting compared to similar conditions. It also occurs only with spells that do 'criticals' (that is usually touch attack and ranged touch attack spells).
Compared with Water's Freezing Spells that cause slow on any target that fails the saving throw (a much more common trigger) with a cold attack.
It is somewhat comparable to Stone's Clobbering Strike that also requires a critical to trigger. By the way, what is the modifier with Clobbering Strike when you attempt the trip??
Compared with Flames' Burning Magic that causes +1 damage / spell level for up to d4 rounds on a failed saving throw it is far less useful. Fire though is hampered by the lack of spells that need saving throws to avoid fire damage.
[...] Fire though is hampered by the lack of spells that need saving throws to avoid fire damage.
Agree, This has been brought up up in this therad, link.
There is the possability that a player might multi-class as a mixture of Oracle/Sorcerer or Oracle/Wizard.
A combination like this could benefit from the Revelation and the dip into Oracle with any of the spell modifier Revelations.
You could also make more use of the Armour Revelations from the Oracle paths as you would get armour without damaging your Arcane casting.
I might even suggest that the original thinking on the Elements Mysteries was for an Arcane Class (Variation on the Sorcerer or Wizard).
It was only later made into a Divine Spontaneous Caster where the creators grafted the Spontaneous Divine Casting onto the prior Element Mysteries to make the new 'Oracle' class.
I mean, not much of the Revelations on the lists really says 'Divine' to me when I look through them. The new 'Nature', 'Heaven', and 'Lore' are more Divine but they came later. The original four elements really do look like the list of powers and abilities you would select for an Arcane Caster rather than for a Divine Caster.
I mean, generally Divine Casting and abilities have a component of support, protection, and insight with the focus not on the caster but on the people of the party. It is usually the Arcane Casting that has the abilities with the focus on the caster and their ability to deliver damage. Divine Caster can do similar things to Arcane Casters but usually the talents (Mysteries in this jargon) are fairly different.
Look at the new Mysteries and you see some of the differances in development;
Heavens
i> Guiding Star - Know location and add Cha to Wis on Wis based checks
ii> Mantle of Moonlight - Heal Lyncanthrope and rage
iii> Star Chart - Commune
Lore
i> Automatic Writing - Divination ability
ii> Focused Trance - Int based skill check with big modifier
iii> Handy Book - use Cha as bonus on Int checks
iv> Think on It - Re-attempt Int check with modifier
Nature
i> Bonded Mount - why the text reads like it was lifted from the Cavalier and is forced to be a mount when it should be druid like animal companion, I don't know.
ii> Friend to Animals - another Druid style gain
iii> Natural Divination - Bonus to Saving Throw or Skill check. Though a Nature person cutting up animals might offend some Druid types.
iv> Speak with Animal - Another Druid style ability
v> Transdential Bond - Avatar connection to your surroundings.
All have strong Divine choices and connections.
I agree that the Original Mysteries are pretty much focused on bash up choices and would fit better with an Arcane list of spells then a Divine list of spells.
There is the possability that a player might multi-class as a mixture of Oracle/Sorcerer or Oracle/Wizard.
A combination like this could benefit from the Revelation and the dip into Oracle with any of the spell modifier Revelations.
Maybe for some of the lesser revelations, but you do agree that the capstone abilities are still irrelevant, yes? I mean, an oracle that dips for a bit of arcane power isn't going to make it to level 20...
There is the possability that a player might multi-class as a mixture of Oracle/Sorcerer or Oracle/Wizard.
A combination like this could benefit from the Revelation and the dip into Oracle with any of the spell modifier Revelations.
I highly doubt it. Class features/abilities seldom affect other classes. A Bard can cast bards spells in light armor, but he can't cast sorcerer spells.
Now I for one don’t think the capstone abilities are a big problem, but if they are irrelevant it proves the design is flawed. If it’s flawed it need to be corrected.
They way I see it the spell list need to be fixed. Seriously, how many play up to level 20?
The most popular levels are 5 to 13 and most AP doesn’t run higher than level 15.
I might as well have named this thread: Oracle Wind: fix the spell list.
How good/fun are really control winds, control weather and Whirlwind?
And overland f light at 13th level? You do get to pick Wings of Air at 7th level and at level 12 you can pick Wind Walk. I’m not saying they should all be removed from the spell list I just think having them all on the list make the Wind Mystery a bit boring.
Gust of wind and freedom of movement are two great spells. Shield is fun and Levitate is a good utility spell, but the rest of the spell list is a bit disappointing.
The oracle really lacks spells known and giving them the same kind of spells on all spell slot is problematic if they aren’t spells you would normally use.
Look at Heavens domain:
Wind isn’t the only Mystery with a problematic spell list but it is one of the weakest spell list.
Again, I don’t think Wind is a broken Mystery, but it could do with some damage dealing spells or some spells that you will use often. Stuff like resist energy and Lightning Bolt.
If you pick flame you can first cast resist fire on your allies and the cast fireball or use Fire Breath or Heat Aura. But how is a wind master going to protect his allies from Thunderburst?
A simple fix would be to give the Wind Mystery
...or something.
Thoughts?
Why is there a dot after the name of this thread? Anyone knows?
Why is there a dot after the name of this thread? Anyone knows?
No dot for me - yet. Mostly there is a dot on a thread (for you) if you have posted in it... helps you keep track of threads you've posted in.
*edit* And now, I have a dot.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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This thread is very interesting. I was able to give Jason a bit of a hand with the new mysteries, so it's cool to see discussion of those elements. We've still got a chance to tweak these classes a little before the playtest is formally finished, so feedback like this is very helpful.
This thread is very interesting. I was able to give Jason a bit of a hand with the new mysteries, so it's cool to see discussion of those elements. We've still got a chance to tweak these classes a little before the playtest is formally finished, so feedback like this is very helpful.
Thanks for the feedback. :-) I will try keep it constructive.
For example, you say above the "wind isn't the only one with a problematic spell list..." So which ones do you consider problematic. The analysis of the heavens list was interesting. Let's see more of that, please.
I will look into it during this week? Or do you want it today?
And I'm not just talking to you, either. Everyone, join in the fun!
Yes I kow I just got carried away LOL.
The Flame mystery is discussed in this thread, link .
What the thread boils down to is the Burning Magic revelation and the lack of fire spells with a save at lower levels.
Here are three suggestion on fixes
If there is any other problem with the Flame spell list? I don’t think so. Perhaps it is too good. Or let me rephrase that. Perhaps it too focused on damage. But I guess that’s not really a problem to most people ;-)
Why is there a dot after the name of this thread? Anyone knows?
I am pretty sure that means you have posted in the thread
Maybe for some of the lesser revelations, but you do agree that the capstone abilities are still irrelevant, yes? I mean, an oracle that dips for a bit of arcane power isn't going to make it to level 20...There is the possability that a player might multi-class as a mixture of Oracle/Sorcerer or Oracle/Wizard.
A combination like this could benefit from the Revelation and the dip into Oracle with any of the spell modifier Revelations.
1> I think that I said previously that I am not really concerned with Capstone Abilities. In the last 10 years of playing (mostly at least once a week), I have been in only 1 campaign that was above level 20 and that was for roughly 2 months before we started over (ACs and other related issues to Epic play made us return to lower levels again). Any ability that doesn't come before level 16 or 17 is pretty much a philosophical discussion.
2> I agree that if you start diping into things like Oracle then you won't make a solid level 20 character with capstone ability (Capstones are rewards for not doing a dip). My comment was that the dip would be usual purpose a 'class dip' to pick up one or two 'useful' abilities. A wizard or sorcerer would like to pick up something that 'added' to their attack spells or provided them with an armour option that they didn't have to use a spell slot to provide. A Flame Oracle might like to do a 3 level dip into Wizard to get Burning Hands and Scorching Ray (which would also help pave the way for Mystic Theurge).
3> It would be an interesting question on whether the term 'Attack' spell would be for strictly Divine spells from the Oracle or apply to any known spells (especially when many of the bonus spells on the Oracle lists are taken from the normally Arcane lists). It would become more interesting when you combined in the possability of a class like Mystic Theurge which mixes the Spell Slots with Memorized Spells.
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To expand upon this discussion multiclassing is the only way to make the burning magic revelation relevant before level 7. I know because I had a player who in our normal game has a sorcerer/oracle moving into mystic theurge and with flaming sphere he has a useful spell that makes his burning magic relevant, but when he made a level 5 oracle for a playtest he didn't have a single spell he could cast with the revelation.
I think fire may be one of the only revelations that maybe should be focused on damage dealing (with water being about healing, wind being about travel/manueverability, and earth being about defense), and actually zark made a good recomendation of switching produce flame to burning hands. Me personally I would also be fine if burning magic was reworked to apply to any fire spells, but if that's not the way they want to go I understand. Still definitely see the thread zark linked to where we discuss it.
To expand upon this discussion multiclassing is the only way to make the burning magic revelation relevant before level 7. [...]
I don't think it has to relevant before level 7. A magic user can pick quicken spell at level 1 but he can use it.
The arcane bloodline (sorcerer) get Metamagic Adept at level 3 but can't use it.
First of all, on the choice of spells for Wind.
I happened to pick up a copy today of Unearthed Arcanna (second hand). Amongst the stuff they had was 'Domain Specialists'.
Storm Domain list was interesting and listed;
1st - Obscuring Mist, 2nd - Gust of Wind, 3rd - Lightning Bolt, 4th - Ice Storm, 5th - Control Winds, 6th - Chain Lightning, 7th - Control Weather, 8th - Whirlwind, 9th - Storm of Vengance
This would be a list that doesn't have any built in flight or freedom of movement but does have a good focus on wind and lighting spells.
-------------------------------------
Second is how to improve the Revelations on the Elements lists.
I agree that each of the elements should be more then just a damage type change but should have a 'theme'. They should also express a few more Divine related abilities.
Wind
I like the current focus on movement that is in the Wind Mystery. You have the Invisibility, Gaseous Form, and Wings of Air (flight offering Perfect Manuverability).
Wind Sight provides some ability to gain information (though per round instead of per minute is a bit short).
What I think is needed to improve the list is the 'Divine' touch.
Samples of what I think would be good choices would be
i> Buffetting Winds - This would be a 'Doom'/'Curse' debuffer modifier on a target. Number of uses, Number of targets, and amount of debuff would be related to the level of the Oracle.
ii> Rescuing Wind - This would be a movement 'slide'/'telekinetic push' that could be used on an ally. The action cost to use could improve from standard action to swift action to interrupt action as the Oracle advanced. While the aim would be to pull an injured person out of combat, there would be other possible uses.
iii> Gossip on the Wind - Augury/Divination style of benefit. Amount and type of information gathered would depend upon the level.
iv> Air Heritage - Immunity from breathing effects like suffocation or air based poisons (always able to generate a supply of clean air in lungs). Might be something to combine with Spark Skin. Possibly at higher level might be able to extend this benefit to others for so many minutes per day.
iii> Gossip on the Wind - Augury/Divination style of benefit. Amount and type of information gathered would depend upon the level.
I just love this. The other suggestions sound good too.
I just love this. The other suggestions sound good too.iii> Gossip on the Wind - Augury/Divination style of benefit. Amount and type of information gathered would depend upon the level.
Agree, although I’m no big fan of Control Winds and Control Weather. I wouldn’t mind having Ice Storm as a 5 level spell and freedom of movement as a 4 level spell. But Gossip on the Wind sound really cool.
Unlike Flame and Waves, Wind (and Stone) doesn't have an elemental form. I'm not sure why.
Anyway, Since Eric wanted more feedback I have started a new thread.
I started with a review of The Oracle of Stone and will add more stuff later on.
Link.
A lore oracle can cast wish once per day with no component, but can't cast spells with expensive components or make his stats go up. So just a free ressurection spell once per day with no component and a once a day full heal for the party.
The text says: the wish cannot be used to grant ability score bonuses, "nor can it be used to replicate spells with expensive material components." (my bold)
To cast Resurrection you need a diamond worth 10,000 gp, so you can't cast Resurrection.Can you explain to me what you mean by "once a day full heal for the party"? Are you referring to one heal spell per day or one Mass Cure Serious Wounds per day?
Please can a brotha get Scintillating pattern on the heavens spell list please! As a pattern spell aficionado, I would greatly enjoy this :D Possibly in place of Chain Lightning, or Prismatic Spray!
Some thought on Nature and some other stuff. Link.
Please can a brotha get Scintillating pattern on the heavens spell list please! As a pattern spell aficionado, I would greatly enjoy this :D Possibly in place of Chain Lightning, or Prismatic Spray!
I have this feeling that chain lightning is actually a placeholder for a new APG spell. It doesn't seem to fit the rest of the list.
Unlike Flame and Waves, Wind (and Stone) doesn't have an elemental form. I'm not sure why.
I think that Wind did not get an elemental form because they got Gaseous Form.
I think that Stone doesn't have an elemental form because they got Steelbreaker Skin.
-----------------
These are not 1 to 1 equivelents to the elemental forms of fire and water but they are comparable and have both good and bad things to them.
Gaseous Form for example has a duration measured in minutes while the Elemental forms (Form of Flame and Form of Water) have a duration measured in hours.
Gaseous Form can divide up the duration in units of time of 1 minute length while the Elemental Forms have a longer duration but only 1 activation per day.
Gaseous Form can be used on the caster or someone else while the Elemental Forms get bigger and tougher combat strength as the Oracle levels.
Gaseous Form is often a better defensive power than Elemental Form of Air but it is only really good for defence (and squeezing through small spaces).
Steelbreaker Skin is another more defensive power.
Steelbreaker Skin is measured in mintues, 1/day, and damages weapons striking you. It can be pretty potent in some situations up to destroying magical weapons in a few chops.
[...]Gaseous Form is often a better defensive power than Elemental Form of Air but it is only really good for defence (and squeezing through small spaces).[...]
I think you are wrong. Gaseous Form is not good for defence. It is mostly a utility spell - only really good for squeezing through small spaces. It gives you:
Let’s look at Elemental Body I
Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small water elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Constitution and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, the ability to create a vortex, and the ability to breathe water.
Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20, vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.
And all this just get better and better at higher levels. At 11th level you are immune to critical
hits and sneak attacks while in elemental form. Eventually you get DR 5/—. Far better than DR 10/ magic.
Armor? No problem, Waves can use Ice Armor and Flame can use mage armor or Wild armor.
And all this last 1 hour per level.
Sure,
Elemental Body is superior to Gaseous Form.
I was responding to the statement that the designers didn't give Wind or Stone any power of a similar type.
Wind was given Gaseous Form instead of Elemental Body.
If I could have both on the list then that would be great for Wind.
Earlier on in the thread it was discussed that there was no need to make Wind, Fire, Water, and Stone a duplicate set of powers with just the element modifier substituted from list to list.
The real question is whether Wind and Stone have no good choices.
A one to one comparison leaves you saying that a sorcerer and an oracle should have identical lists of spells. The point of spells are that they are different and balance comes from making a decision if at a particular level is this a useful pick.
So,
1> Yes, elemental body is a superior choice to gaseous form.
2> While it is superior, there are enough advantages and utility in gaseous form that it stands as a pick in the Wind Mystery.
3> If I can have both than that is great but if I can have only one then I will accept either gaseous form or elemental body on the wind list. They are both useful picks and different people will gravitate to different picks based on character concept, campaign, and personal preference.
stuff
Thanks for the answer. Reading my last post again I can see it comes of as a bit aggressive. It wasn't my intention. I think your posts are some of the best on the Messageboards.
stuffThanks for the answer. Reading my last post again I can see it comes of as a bit aggressive. It wasn't my intention. I think your posts are some of the best on the Messageboards.
Don't worry, I am pretty thick skinned and I know people get passionate in their discussion of ideas. People that don't care, don't tend to spend the time to participate and to post.
Thanks for the compliment. It is always good to know once and a while that people appreciate what you are contributing.