Cackle is listed as extending the duration of the Ward hex by 1 round. However, Ward really doesn't have a duration of it's own as it wears off once the target is hit or fails a save. Does this extend it one round past that? And if that is the case, will continuing to cackle keep Ward going indefinitely?
Ward Hex has no range listed, and touch is not implied anywhere in the text.
I'd like some clarification on Evil Eye, as well.
I assume that it is mind effective/influencing because it says it "...creeps in the mind..." in the flavor text. Thus implying it is an enchantment effect. But it doesn't come out and say this, it is only in flavor text.
My issue is that this hex is almost identical to the "hexblade curse" which was a necromantic effect and, thus, stuck on undead, constructs etc.
Can I get a ruling on if this is an enchantment effect?
I'd like some clarification on Evil Eye, as well.
I assume that it is mind effective/influencing because it says it "...creeps in the mind..." in the flavor text. Thus implying it is an enchantment effect. But it doesn't come out and say this, it is only in flavor text.
My issue is that this hex is almost identical to the "hexblade curse" which was a necromantic effect and, thus, stuck on undead, constructs etc.
Can I get a ruling on if this is an enchantment effect?
In the first playtest my GM already asked for a clarification on this, and is disappointed that it wasn't clarified. It came up against a golem.
They don't have shiled, blur or Displacement. Only a witch with a Fox get mirror image.
This will probably be a problem.
If you look at their spell list for familiars; Why does all the animals get their relative ability buff spells (ex: Cat & Cats Grace) but Fox gets Mirror Image not Fox's Cunning, arguably the most important stat buff for an int-based caster?
If you look at their spell list for familiars; Why does all the animals get their relative ability buff spells (ex: Cat & Cats Grace) but Fox gets Mirror Image not Fox's Cunning, arguably the most important stat buff for an int-based caster?
Could be because of just that; maybe they thought it a bit unbalancing compared to the other animals.
If you look at their spell list for familiars; Why does all the animals get their relative ability buff spells (ex: Cat & Cats Grace) but Fox gets Mirror Image not Fox's Cunning, arguably the most important stat buff for an int-based caster?Could be because of just that; maybe they thought it a bit unbalancing compared to the other animals.
The silliness abounds.
My concerns:
1. Do Spell Focus feats affect Hexes that have spell effects? Specifically, I'm thinking the Slumber Hex basically doing a sleep spell with no HD cap. Does Spell Focus (Greater) for enchantment increase this DC?
Or... can the Witch pick up Ability Focus (Hexes).. or would it be (Slumber Hex) in this case? Spell Focus needs two feats to match the +2, but Hexes are a bit shorter list than spells (11 max, and you'll most likely have a bunch that aren't attacking a save).
2. Can the Witch use her Familiar to deliver a Hex touch attacks when it gets the "deliver touch spell" feature? There's less that require a touch attack now, but they are still there... and I can think of some really nice thematically appropriate situations where a Tiny/Diminutive Familiar might sneak in and apply the touch surreptitiously.
3. If a Witch is learning a new spell by having her Familiar commune with another Familiar... can it learn the Familiar-unique spells? It says "spells on the Witch list", so I'm guessing since those spells are listed in a different section they don't count, but it's could be left open to interpretation and arguments if not specifically called out.
4. The Tongues Hex entry has a sentence that seems a bit chopped from cut'n'paste I believe.
See the bolded text. It looks like there was supposed to be more (especially considering there's no period before "Activating".
5. The Coven Hex... does that mean 3 Witches can start casting Coven spells? Or does it require at least one Hag to initiate it?
I'm assuming you just use the spells listed in the Green Hag entry... although it does mention the GM can decide to allow additional spells on a whim... kind of leaves things a bit open for the player to pester his GM.
6. The Nightmare Hex has a ranged of 60 feet. While this neatly bypasses the "need to know the subject" bits, it drastically changes the way you'd use the spell effect compared to the actual spell.
This isn't so much a "unexplained" or "broken" thing.. but rather a suggestion on expanding the effect.
Perhaps letting it be a "a target within sight"... which would allow clairvoyance and Hag's Eye use, as well as scrying.
7. Does the Natural Disaster storm of vengeance part last beyond the 2nd round? It only mentions the acid rain, and the spell normally requires concentration (max 10 rounds)... so does the Witch automatically stop concentrating on the second round when the earthquake goes off, or does she get to keep concentrating to get the remaining 8 rounds of effects (lightning, hail and torrential rains). If she does get the extra rounds, does she have to continue concentrating... maybe tie it in with the Cackling Hex.. that would be hilariously great!
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Overall I really like the Witch class. The spell list is the closest I've seen to a working Mystic Theurge build without having crazy multiclassing and MAD.
I'd really like to play the class as a player, however I'm getting tons of wicked ideas as a DM.
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My concerns:
1. Do Spell Focus feats affect Hexes that have spell effects? Specifically, I'm thinking the Slumber Hex basically doing a sleep spell with no HD cap. Does Spell Focus (Greater) for enchantment increase this DC?
Or... can the Witch pick up Ability Focus (Hexes).. or would it be (Slumber Hex) in this case? Spell Focus needs two feats to match the +2, but Hexes are a bit shorter list than spells (11 max, and you'll most likely have a bunch that aren't attacking a save).3. If a Witch is learning a new spell by having her Familiar commune with another Familiar... can it learn the Familiar-unique spells? It says "spells on the Witch list", so I'm guessing since those spells are listed in a different section they don't count, but it's could be left open to interpretation and arguments if not specifically called out.
1. My gut feeling to 1 is the answer is no, because they are SU but it does beg the question, as an SU and not SL, is the effect "magical." IE are creatures immune to magical sleep immune to this effect? This doesn't need to be in the book, but it is FAQ worthy.
3. I think there was an official ruling on this that those spells are not considered "on the list"
1. My gut feeling to 1 is the answer is no, because they are SU but it does beg the question, as an SU and not SL, is the effect "magical." IE are creatures immune to magical sleep immune to this effect? This doesn't need to be in the book, but it is FAQ worthy.
Well, for Ability Focus, it doesn't require the special ability to be spell-like, so it's being Su doesn't preclude it automatically.
In the first playtest my GM already asked for a clarification on this, and is disappointed that it wasn't clarified. It came up against a golem.
And I am very sad.
:( <- sadface
In the first playtest my GM already asked for a clarification on this, and is disappointed that it wasn't clarified. It came up against a golem.And I am very sad.
:( <- sadface
It is supernatural so no spell resistance... it's not labeled a mind affecting ability so it is not a mind affecting ability therefore golems are valid targets.
It is supernatural so no spell resistance... it's not labeled a mind affecting ability so it is not a mind affecting ability therefore golems are valid targets.In the first playtest my GM already asked for a clarification on this, and is disappointed that it wasn't clarified. It came up against a golem.And I am very sad.
:( <- sadface
Yes, but as stated above, the flavor or many of the abilities does not match the effect. Evil eye specifically states you affect their mind in the flavor but not in the effect.
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I don't believe that the flavor text is the deciding factor of how it works, also it just says that "The witch can cause doubt to creep into the mind of a foe" it doesn't necessarily mean that the foes mind is affected in any way other than doubt. Doubt doesn't need a very intelligent if at all intelligent creature to be affected, doubt just means you feel like you can not complete what you are trying to do.
As it stands, my current ruling is that creatures that are immune to mind-affecting are also immune to this ability EXCEPT those with 0 intelligence. This, of course, is pretty messy and makes no sense, but it's the best I can do at this point.
Flavor text matters.
I use flavor text to adjudicate HOW things happen in the game and how I describe them to the players. If I had a Witch NPC, I wouldn't say "She uses Evil Eye on you", I'd use the flavor text to describe what they see and feel.
If I were a player who was using a spell to protect themselves from mental intrusion, heard the DM describe an effect that was planting doubtful thoughts in their minds, and didn't receive the protection they were warding against... I'd feel kinda cheated.
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As it stands, my current ruling is that creatures that are immune to mind-affecting are also immune to this ability EXCEPT those with 0 intelligence. This, of course, is pretty messy and makes no sense, but it's the best I can do at this point.
Flavor text matters.
I use flavor text to adjudicate HOW things happen in the game and how I describe them to the players. If I had a Witch NPC, I wouldn't say "She uses Evil Eye on you", I'd use the flavor text to describe what they see and feel.
If I were a player who was using a spell to protect themselves from mental intrusion, heard the DM describe an effect that was planting doubtful thoughts in their minds, and didn't receive the protection they were warding against... I'd feel kinda cheated.
Seems like a simple rewording of flavour could be done here, like
"the witch draws upon the forces of the beyond to thwart her foes actions."
That this wasn't clarified is disappointing. One of the first threads about the Witch was about the ability and how it is unclear.
Seems like a simple rewording of flavour could be done here, like
"the witch draws upon the forces of the beyond to thwart her foes actions."
However they do it. Don't care as long as it's clear.
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However they do it. Don't care as long as it's clear.Seems like a simple rewording of flavour could be done here, like
"the witch draws upon the forces of the beyond to thwart her foes actions."
I'm with you on that. It needed the rewording. Personally I take the opposite view...the fact that they were making fixes and changed nothing about Evil Eye, and specifically did not add the mind-affecting descriptor to it, convinces me that it is not a mind-affecting ability. But, of course, that's my interpretation, not the DM's.
...or something as simple as in the description of hexes, themselves, it said:
"Unless otherwise noted all hexes are considered 'X' effects."
'X', of course, being (most likely) necromantic or enchantment.
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It also never states that the witch is putting any kind of thought into the targets head, just that it makes them doubt themselves. As I stated before doubt isn't necessarily mental, it just means you don't believe you can do whatever you are trying to do. But yes I am in agreement with everyone that it does need clarification, but as of now as a DM I rule it is not Mind Affecting because it doesn't say so, just like other spells and abilities. I would say it works like Bestow Curse since this is what I think the ability is supposed to be like, a minor curse.
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...or something as simple as in the description of hexes, themselves, it said:
"Unless otherwise noted all hexes are considered 'X' effects."
'X', of course, being (most likely) necromantic or enchantment.
As SU abilities do they need/should they be associated with schools?
The flip side, if they do have schools associated with them would spell focus feats apply?
Just going on this thread a little father, if someone is under the effects of a a hex would they be detectable by detect magic, and would that magic be subject to dispel magic. Going one step more, would they work in a area of dead magic?
just that it makes them doubt themselves. As I stated before doubt isn't necessarily mental, it just means you don't believe you can do whatever you are trying to do.
Actually, that's kind of the definition of mental. If you're mindless, like a computer, you can't feel "doubt". Doubt is a quite advanced feeling, something probably most animals can't even feel. It's a far more complex feeling than fear, and fear is mind-affecting.
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Doubt could apply to a golem or a sophisticated computer program in the 'believe yourself unable to complete your instructions' way.
That is, it could make fallback programming kick in. 'Go kill joe unless joe is unreachable in which case return to base', well doubt here would mean 'joe is unreachable' even if he was patently reachable, so the golem would just 'return to base'. If no alternative programming exists, it would do what it would really do if joe were unreachable, which is either stand still and wait for joe to be reachable or wander off looking for a way to reach joe.
Spells like evil eye are probably not intended as mind affecting either, the flavour text tells you what you feel if you are able to feel but I believe that type of spell is in fact 'luck' or 'probability' affecting and works on anything since a golem can be negatively affected by random environmental factors as anything alive.
As SU abilities do they need/should they be associated with schools?The flip side, if they do have schools associated with them would spell focus feats apply?
Whether or not hexes were associated with schools, spell focus feats wouldn't apply to them because they aren't spells. Metamagic feats even for Spell like abilities are different from the ones for spells, so considering a "Spell" feat for Su would be... hard to justify.
Just going on this thread a little father, if someone is under the effects of a a hex would they be detectable by detect magic, and would that magic be subject to dispel magic. Going one step more, would they work in a area of dead magic?
Supernatural abilities are magical, so, visible to detect magic (I would think) and vulnerable to anti-magic (specifically stated). They are specifically listed as not dispellable and of course aren't bothered by SR, or subject to arcane spell failure chance.
(Although, a witch is mostly going to want to cast spells as well, and while a fighter-witch might have some interesting abilities I think you'd lose too much base attack to be able to hit things and too many caster levels to have the duration for pre-buffing. Also, any rounds spent hexing enemies aren't rounds spent hitting them with something pointy, so... no.)
I really hate doing this, but...bump. The Evil Eye thing is starting to get to be a pain for PFS, seeing as how I need to get a ruling at the start of every session and plan accordingly.
I asked Josh about this. He made a ruling in the PFS boards.
..............................................................Josh:
Whenever an ability is a mind-affecting effect it's listed as such in the ability. RAW, the Evil Eye hex is not a mind-affecting effect.