Welcome to the Discussion thread.
I'm going to do a quick mechanical and expectations post, and please feel free to ask questions any time.
Posting: The goal is daily. I know that might not always happen, life gets in the way of that, but that's the goal. I'll let you all know if I happen to have anything that will limit my posting.
Agency: I want to keep as much of the dice rolling in your hands as possible. While I will roll initiatives for all combatants and an occasional secret check, most secret checks will be rolled by you. Yes, that may lead to meta-gaming, and I'm willing to risk that.
Recall Knowledge: Recall Knowledge is one of the normally secret rolls that I will not be making. When you encounter a creature, I'll do something like:
Wolf (Nature).
This will let you know what skill you can use to roll RK. There may be times when other skills can also be used.
Now, what information will you get with RK? I prioritize telling you about Immunities, Resistances, and Weaknesses. I think this gives the best chances for players to not waste actions and to make better plans. Special abilities and the like are also high on my list of things to reveal with RK.
Sky Kings Tomb uses most of the subsystems in PF2E, and when we hit one, I'll go over the base rules and any special rules for that use of the subsystem.
Free Archetype: As I said in the recruitment thread, I am open to discussing this now that I've chosen a group. If people have opinions on if they'd like it or not, please post them.
Shopping: Once you have more resources, it's not hard to spend them. When in Highhelm, you have access to all common items of level 14 and below, all Uncommon Dwarf items of level 14 and below, and all common weapons and armor of up to 17th level.
Lastly, Chapter 1 of Book One, is called Highhelm Heroes. The goal of the chapter is for your group to establish itself, and earn a reputation. It's a very sandbox-style chapter, with a number of events that you'll get the chance to learn about and explore.
Sounds good to me!
As for Free Archetype, overall I'm a huge proponent. It opens a lot of build possibilities without adding a lot of power. That being said, we are using Paragon Ancestry, which I feel does add some potency; it allows you to get things like additional movement types, resistances, all kinds of stuff. Again, I think the extra power comes in the form of versatility and survivability as opposed to, say, huge debuffs or damage output, so it's not enormous. However, I've never used the two variant rules together so I don't know how they'd interact.
All in all, I'm willing to find out, but I definitely suggest we leave that decision in your hands. You're the one who has to do the extra work to power up combats if we end up being too beefy, after all!
If we do go FA, I know exactly what I'll be taking with Batsu: vigilante! I've never played the archetype in 2e and I'm curious how it plays. The Startling Appearance feat is a nice opening debuff. I'd go for Shadowdancer at 8th, but I don't see Batsu as a performer and you need Expert Performance to qualify. Might just grab all Vigilante feats, who knows. I usually try to plan builds out but I feel like since this is a playtest class, maybe I'll just play it by ear level to level. Do what feels appropriate to his experiences.
Also, a big fan of the Free Archtype rule. We use it in the tabletop game I run, and it just gives more flexibility of choice. I also like the Paragon Ancestery as it better identifies / differentiates the ancestries.
As far as I know, the Free Archetype wouldn't/shouldn't make us too powerful alongside the Paragon Ancestry. It gives us all a fair few more options, but nothing that really makes us more powerful. If anything Paragon Ancestry is what'll make us more powerful overall. Some Ancestry feats can be rather strong.
I dont mind using free archetype but I am also happy not to. I see you have taken 6 players. Most APs are written assuming 4, free archetype on top of that likely means a fair bit of extra work for you in amending things so there is a decent challenge.
Thank you for allowing me on the game GM. As for FA or not. To me it's a coin flip. I can see it being good and I can see it being bad when meshed with PA and the number of players.
So your choice.
D'oh. That's what I get for not paying attention. Vigilante requires Trained in Deception. Well, I can probably find an interesting archetype to tack on. There are plenty to choose from!
And of course, this is even assuming we use FA. Could be a moot point.
You all can start to RP if you'd like. I'll get us going Monday or Tuesday, but it's fine to start to IC getting to know you process.
Jeez, I am a class A jerk. I didn't even thank you for inviting me into the game! I really am grateful, I've been excited to play Sky King's Tomb ever since it was announced. Thank you!
As chapter one is very sandboxy and yet rather important to creating the groups' cohesion, and establishing them in Highhelm, I wanted to explain a little more in order to lessen the chance of 'we don't know what to do' settling in.
The core of the chapter is the group of PCs creating a group identity and reputation in the city. This is done through up to 13 events. Some of them are very simple, and some of them are rather involved. You will learn of events as time goes by, or by your own efforts to learn of things happening in Highhelm.
You'll start off aware of three of the events. The party, especially at six people, may choose to split up and investigate varied events or do other things, or they can stay together. That's up to you.
Each of these events will reward you with at least one of new character options, loot, or reputation, and they do not all need to be explored.
Each day, each player can choose one activity they are pursuing for the day. These can be:
1. Investigate one of the rumors that you are aware of.
2. Gathering information to learn of more opportunities.
3. Earn Income.
4. Crafting. You are in a city after all. Materials and time are both plentiful.
5. You can pitch ideas to me for things you want to do.
I'll keep the group aware of what in game day it is, and the group's current overall reputation as it grows.
Feel free to ask any questions that you may have.
Since Angar used a hero point, I've been debating how I'll handle them in this chapter. As it's very sandboxy, I've decided to do it this way.
For the chapter, each character has 3 hero points. So, Angar now has 2/3, and the rest of you have 3/3. When we get to Chapter 2, which has a very different feel, the way I do it may well change, and I'll let you all know when we get there.
To all my GM's,
My stepdad passed away this morning. I will not be able to post for a few days. I will check in when I can but my posting, if any, will be spotty. I hope you understand.
I've been called away on a family emergency. Probably out of touch till Saturday so feel free to move things along.
Sorry to hear that for both of you. Thanks for letting us know.
Until at least one of Batsu or Borox is back, I won't advance us to the next game day. However, Kilian may still make tryout rolls if he wants to, people can RP, and if there are other things you'd like to do, bring them up, and I'll see if it's possible.
I am afraid that I am going to have to drop out of this game, time has become too tight.
Sorry to hear that, and thanks for letting us know.
We'll be replacing Angar with Zothan. I'll work him in as soon as I can, which may be a few days.
HA! So we'll be getting the Cat and Mouse dynamic in this game after all! XD
Sorry to see you go, Angar! Best of luck on your next game(s)! Though our interactions were brief, I enjoyed them very much.
HA! So we'll be getting the Cat and Mouse dynamic in this game after all! XD
”Indeed! And allow me to express how much I’m looking forward to our imminent cooperation. I can assure you that any reservations you might have about working with someone of a feline heritage are entirely unwarranted.
This whole “cat and mouse” dynamic is merely the result of old stereotypes and a few unfortunate misunderstandings long past. Now, if you would kindly stop looking so appetizing, it is rather distracting.”
I've decided to let Zothan join in the Burnside group at the forge. He can join in starting this phase, which is phase two so that he's not sitting on the sidelines for what could be a while.
Welcome to the Quest, Zothan!
Understood and appreciated. I have some urgent work tonight, but will try to find time to drop a quick post.
Ok, before posting, let me just make absolutely certain I understand how the Burntown tasks work.
I'm a bit fussy on the destinction between "phase", "stage" and "step". In the description, I suspect that Phase and Step are used as synonyms. Is this correct?
Helping Elga is a multi-phase skill challenge. There are three morning phases, a break for lunch, two afternoon phases, and one - for now - mystery phase. In each phase, you will make a roll for one of the projects, with a success giving you one point towards completion, a crit success giving two, and any failure just being no progress. You do not go backwards. In addition, should a crit success give you excess on a completion, you can make another roll on any project that phase or rehydrate.
Now, you might be asking why you need to rehydrate. The reason is that none of you are used to the very high temperatures of Burntown. Starting with Phase Two, in addition to your Skill check, you'll need to make a Fortitude save to resist heat exhaustion, which is simulated with an affliction called 'Burntown Burnout'. If you rehydrate, you may get a bonus on that save, and/or reduce the level of the affliction if you are suffering it.
There are three initial projects. Steps must be done in order, except with a and b steps, which can be done in any order.
The first project laid out for you are the materials to build a wrought iron fence. You are not putting the fence together, or working on the more intricate scrollwork. Rather you are creating the pickets, points, and crossbars that comprise the fence. This requires consistent heat, steady labor, and careful measurement.
The stages for this project are:
Step 1: Stoking Fires. You may use Survival, Athletics, or Fortitude for this check.
Step 2a. Hammering Iron. You may use Crafting or Athletics.
Step 2b. Quality Control. You may use Crafting or Perception.
The second project is a crossbow. It was hit with a boulder from a giant, and the front arm was damaged. While Elga will perform the detailed work, it needs a lot of heat, and her flame elementals (which look like a pair of cats), are being stubborn. Once the elementals are cooperating, and the arm is forged, the party will need to put the bow together and calibrate it with test firing.
The stages for this project are:
Step 1: Elemental Encouragement. You may roll Intimidation, Deception, Diplomacy, Nature, Stealth, or Thievery.
Step 2: Reassembly. You may roll Crafting, Thievery, Perception, or a Reflex save.
Step 3: Calibration. You'll need to make a ranged attack and may make three rolls in one phase.
Finally, there is a shield to be finished. It needs its enchantments stabilized, and a heraldic design that requires "A decorative element celebrating dwarven achievement." You may create that element as you see fit.
There are two steps here:
Step 1a. Creating the Design. You may use Art Lore, Dwarf Lore, Genealogy Lore, Crafting, Religion, or Society.
Step 1b. Stabilizing the Enchantment. You may roll Arcana, Occultism, or Religion.
As with all skill challenges, you may think that other skills, especially lores, would work. If you do, roll the normal skill for the challenge, and the lore, in your post, and explain why you think it works. If I agree, I'll use the higher of the two rolls. If I disagree, then I'll just use the step's skill roll.
You can now make your choices for Phase 1. You may work on the three projects as you see fit. You do not have to do them in order.
So, for phase 2, what exactly are Zothan's options?
Is it one of these:
1) Either Hammering Iron or Quality Control on the Fence.
2) Reassembling the crossbow
Or starting at Step one for one of the projects? Or something third?
Double-check with GM, but I believe QC on the fence was already successful, so your options would be:
- Step 2a on the fence;
- (Assuming Korox was just successful) step 2 of the crossbow; or
- Step 1 (a OR b) of the shield.
Good questions.
Phases are terms for unspecified lengths of time. The are three morning phases, then lunch, then two afternoon phases.
Each of the three projects has multiple steps that must be completed in order. So, step 1 (or 1a and 1b) need to be done before step 2, etc.
The Burntown group is going into Phase 2. So, you have the hammering iron on the fence and all of the crossbow and shield. Note that I am answering this before looking at Korox's post, so part 2 of the crossbow may be ready.
In addition, now that we are in Phase 2, there is a Fortitude save as part of every phase in order to deal with heat exhaustion.
Batsu is correct that the fence QC is done.
I hope that clears it up. If not, let me know.
Thanks, I think I got it. Posting now.
Can we retry the same task? Or do we need to either try again with a different skill or pick a new project?
Yes, you can try the same task or a different one. There's no limitations in that regard.
I promise most of Batsu's posts won't be that long, but I did say this guy will be doing dramatic inner monologues! :P
Hello everyone. Player of Dyrm Stonefist here. I'll be joining you when the time is convenient for the story.
Dyrm is a classic dwarven fighter type, easier for me as I'm still newish to 2nd Ed compared to some. His personal story? He's doing this for love, because when you think romance in fantasy, you think dwarf!
;)
To nutshell it. He and a lady of Tolorr are in love and plan to get married, but said lady wants her grandfather's blessing before they do. Dyrm is going to earn that blessing by assisting Clan Tolorr.
Hello everyone. Player of Dyrm Stonefist here. I'll be joining you when the time is convenient for the story.
Dyrm is a classic dwarven fighter type, easier for me as I'm still newish to 2nd Ed compared to some. His personal story? He's doing this for love, because when you think romance in fantasy, you think dwarf!
;)
To nutshell it. He and a lady of Tolorr are in love and plan to get married, but said lady wants her grandfather's blessing before they do. Dyrm is going to earn that blessing by assisting Clan Tolorr.
Huzzah! Welcome to the game. I think you'll find that 2e fighters are a lot of fun to play. I play Gnome fighter in my RL 2e game, and find that I have a lot of cool options available, while still being able to dish out plenty of damage.
Huzzah! Welcome to the game. I think you'll find that 2e fighters are a lot of fun to play. I play Gnome fighter in my RL 2e game, and find that I have a lot of cool options available, while still being able to dish out plenty of damage.
Thanks for the kind welcome! I've been hearing only nice things about the 2nd Edition fighter so far. I'll be open to suggestions on tactics and the like if you feel so inclined.
Dyrm will be replacing Kilain and will be ICly introduced once both groups are finished with their current events.
As for the Recall Knowledge Zothan brought up earlier, we'll play around and see the best way to do it. I fully support heavy use of RK, and we'll just have to find the most effective way to run it as we go.
Dyrm, if you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to ask. That goes for anyone, of course!
Dyrm will be replacing Kilain and will be ICly introduced once both groups are finished with their current events.
As for the Recall Knowledge Zothan brought up earlier, we'll play around and see the best way to do it. I fully support heavy use of RK, and we'll just have to find the most effective way to run it as we go.
Dyrm, if you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to ask. That goes for anyone, of course!
I suppose my first question regards more his backstory and bride to be. Ularrka Tolorr and her grandfather are rather vague now, and that's fine with me, but did you want me to name them both? or change the names to fit any other NPCs of the Clan that may already exist? etc.
If I can keep the imagination going, I'll have Dyrm writing letters/journal entries to his bride to be reminiscent of civil war soldiers to their beloveds while they were in the field but that's more for my own amusement.
Welcome, welcome!
I love the idea of letters and journal entries. I'm hamming it up with the inner monologues so you'll get no judgment from me! I can't wait to read 'em! ^_^
The Iron Lagoon seems like as good a place as any to introduce Dyrm. I’m thinking that if we announce that we are guests of Clan Tolorr, he’ll jump at the chance to aid us.
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I don't need them named, no. You can name and detail them if you want, but I have no need of that from the GM side of things, That said, any of you can flesh out backstories as you see fit. Letters, Batsu's inner musings, all kinds of fleshing out are more than welcome! They're fun to read.
As for the intro, I'll do that after both groups are finished with their current tasks. One, because it's just a little easier on me, and second to combine Kilain's leaving with Dyrm's arrival.
Don't mean to be a backseat driver, but just wanted to give group 1 a gentle reminder that everyone started the game with 3 hero points, if you want to retry those skill checks. But they are our only hero points for quite a while (all of chapter 1, I believe?) so understandable if you want to save them. Just an FYI. :)
Thank you, Batsu! I had completly forgotten about Hero Points, and the current situation certainly calls for some extra heroics.
GM Lia still needs to roll for Kilain, but if he fails as well, I would strongly consider spending my point. So, don’t resolve anything too soon.
And don’t hesitate to point out this kind of thing in the future. I’m still a fairly new 2e player and appreciate when others point out rules options or implications I might be missing.
I would agree that backseat driving, when used the way you did Batsu, is very good. Reminding people about things like Hero Points, or other things, without saying 'You should do this' or 'You should play like that', is a very good thing.
On a side note, when you refer to me in a post, just Lia is fine. You don't need to add the GM part :)
Well, D’oh! The asyncronous nature of PbP strikes again. While I was busy composing my heroic novella, Korox ninja’d me with a much more sensible and straight forward solution.
Guess we’re double heroic. At least it should be enough to get the fire fully under control.
Hey, wanted to apologize for vanishing for a bit. Some stuff happened IRL and I wound up being really distracted. I'm back now though!
I'm glad you're back.
I want to hit a couple of GM things, as both groups are bringing in some treasure.
Money: How do you guys want to handle it? Even split between the party members or a group pool? When it comes to mundane equipment, once you're in some fights, I'll assume you leave it behind unless someone says they take something, with magical gear being auto taken.
As for gems, jewels, paintings, etc (like the soapstone goat, for example), I'll assume they are sold and treated like money, unless, again, someone says 'I want to keep that.'
Magical Items: When you're in an active adventure area and find an item you learn is magic, via Read Aura, Detect Magic, etc, you'll need to make a roll to ID it. However, when in Highhelm or other large settlements, those rolls will be handwaved, as you have effectively as much time as you need, and having to do a series of rolls could be tedious in PbP.
When you are exploring the Darklands, you will need the rolls.
A couple more GM things.
The Remaaster: I know I'm excited about it, and I want to touch on how I plan to bring it in. Once I read the new Player Core, I'll let you all know, and anyone playing a class covered by it, will have a week to swap features out for free. So, if a new class feat or subclass fits your concept better, you could swap to it without retraining.
The same goes for Skill and General feats. They can be swapped, but backgrounds will stay the same.
Things like rogues gaining all Martial weapons will just go into effect. Spell names we'll probably all need adjustment time for, so using either version is fine. :)
RK: I have seen some previews that indicate the direction of RK will be to let the player ask gamey questions like 'Which save is lowest.' I will not be using that. Instead, I'll be sticking to what I do with my physical table, and that is emphasizing Immunities, Resistances, and Weaknesses for monsters with RK. Now, you can still ask for specific information, in case you already know, or they have none of, the above, but by default, you'll get what I see are the most important bits of information. You'll also get a little flavor blurb about something the first time you encounter it, and this could also give tactical information.
As an example, pretend you've been fighting goblins with swords, and some with spears, and then you encounter a group that has some slingers, and Zothan RKs on the slingers. I could say "Goblin Slingers are known to use Alchemists' Fire as ammunition", and that would give you tactical information.
Free Archetype: I've decided to use it. There will have to be a narrative reason that your character takes an archetype. Uncommons or Rates will have to be run by me first, and it's not mandatory at all. If you don't want to take one, don't. You can also save the slots in case the AP introduces any down the road, or later books add them.
As always, questions and comments are welcome.
I'm good with sharing the loot as group treasure myself. Though it takes more bookkeeping in my tabletop games we also award an equal share to "Party Treasure" to be used as all agree. I agree that if someone wants to keep an art/bauble item they should just take the resell value as part of their loot share. ie... if the resale value of an item is 5gp you get 5gp less of the party treasure.
I've been struggling with the whole RK thing since I started GM'ing PF2. I've got a new campaign starting this Saturday and am going to try the following... at least till I see what the Remaster rules offer.
Monster Rarity:
(If trained*)
Difficulty to know what it is... No other information.
*Common; DC10
*Uncommon: DC12
*Rare: DC 15
*Unique: DC 20-30 depending upon familiarity with generality.
*If not trained DC is 5 higher.
If you hit a number equal to this +5 GM will provide additional pertinent information. If you hit +10 you can ask a question, and if you roll a nat 20 you get to ask two questions.
I'm considering having the expertise level of the character adjust the DC downward, but since that is partially offset by the proficiency going up by 2 I'm still considering.
Definitely in favor of the free archtype rule. I find it doesn't really affect the DC of things just allows you to fill out your characters role.
Archives of Nethys gives DCs for RK, and uncommon and rare go up, and you can also DC by level to figure out typical ranges. You don't want to make it too low, especially for uncommon and rare creatures, or they don't feel uncommon or rare.
Just as an example, in the two challenges, you guys have been facing, there have been quite a few 18s for DC when you use Perception (lower for using other skills), and you've beat them quite easily at level 1. So, a 15 DC for a rare creature becomes trivial pretty quickly.
DC by level also works for basically anything that you're not sure what to set a DC for GMing. But, in the end, use whatever works for your table.
Group Pool sounds good to me as well.
I'm a bit nervous about the Remaster as I'm still getting used to 2nd but I understand fighter is one of the least changed? So that may not be anything to worry about for me. I'll probably stick with the 2nd.
Free Archetype.. mmm, I think I need to play Dyrm a bit to see which way he leans personality wise