Apple Products and their Business Model


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Andrew Turner wrote:
<SNIP>As to the iOS and App Store issue, until the iPhone is the majority market device, the very notion of a monopoly is, in my nonlegal opinion, silly. If you don't like the system used by Apple, buy a Droid; speak with your wallet.</SNIP>

Which is exactly what I'm advocating people do. Just because a monopoly doesn't currently exist is no reason not to be concerned about one developing. Products with strong networks effects often end up all-or-nothing, at least within a particular market. Ebay, Facebook, iPod, etc., the list goes on. There are literally TONS of less expensive, more fully-featured MP3 players than the iPod, but so many people have established iTunes libraries that can't easily* be decrypted and synced to another device that they're effectively locked to the iPOD. And yeah, there's this factor

If Apple suceeds in supplanting the open PC platform with a closed alternative, one needn't look too far for overwhelming historical evidence that consumers will be the ultimate losers.

*Burning CDs and re-ripping hundreds of songs is simple, but it's anything but "easy."

Liberty's Edge

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bugleyman wrote:


Which is exactly what I'm advocating people do. Just because a monopoly doesn't currently exist is no reason not to be concerned about one developing. Products with strong networks effects often end up all-or-nothing, at least within a particular market. Ebay, Facebook, iPod, etc., the list goes on. There are literally TONS of less expensive, more fully-featured MP3 players than the iPod, but so many people have established iTunes libraries that can't easily* be decrypted and synced to another device that they're effectively locked to the iPOD. And yeah, there's this factor

If Apple suceeds in supplanting the open PC platform with a closed alternative, one needn't look too far for overwhelming historical evidence that consumers will be the ultimate losers.

*Burning CDs and re-ripping hundreds of songs is simple, but it's anything but "easy."

I am so glad music in Itunes no longer has DRM, I updated my whole collection to Non DRM format.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

lynnfredricks wrote:
Right! Now give me a reset button to do that AND the ability to deploy applications into that sandbox without going through the monopoly App Store. Such a reset would eliminate many of the issues Apple would have if developers were not forced to use the App Store

Backing up, updating, and restoring your iPod or iPhone

It's really not that hard. Considering it even let's you restore the iPhone to the condition it was in beforehand.

Regarding the ability to install anything you want without using the App Store. You can already do this. Because I fear the web-monkey around here I won't tell you how though. Other than it is very very easy and anyone with the internet can figure it out.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
lynnfredricks wrote:
Right! Now give me a reset button to do that AND the ability to deploy applications into that sandbox without going through the monopoly App Store. Such a reset would eliminate many of the issues Apple would have if developers were not forced to use the App Store

Backing up, updating, and restoring your iPod or iPhone

It's really not that hard. Considering it even let's you restore the iPhone to the condition it was in beforehand.

Regarding the ability to install anything you want without using the App Store. You can already do this. Because I fear the web-monkey around here I won't tell you how though. Other than it is very very easy and anyone with the internet can figure it out.

But can it be done without violating the DMCA? Jail-breaking is beside the point.


Dragnmoon wrote:
I am so glad music in Itunes no longer has DRM, I updated my whole collection to Non DRM format.

That was free, right? :P

And for those who don't choose to pay/aren't aware, the network effect remains a strong incentive. In any event, the damage has pretty clearly already been done. Not even the Zune, in my experience a flat-out superior device, could eek out meangingful marketshare; that ship has sailed.

Shadow Lodge

bugleyman wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
I am so glad music in Itunes no longer has DRM, I updated my whole collection to Non DRM format.

That was free, right? :P

And for those who don't choose to pay/aren't aware, the network effect remains a strong incentive. In any event, the damage has pretty clearly already been done. Not even the Zune, in my experience a flat-out superior device, could eek out meangingful marketshare; that ship has sailed.

The iPod had no advantages and just out-cooled the Zune? I don't buy that idea. The iPod is a really good player, it had a great interface and managing your library is easy. Essentially that integration and clean product design is what won the day. Zune was fraught with problems from it's parent.

Microsoft discarded their previous DRM solution without an upgrade path when they started up the Zune line alienating some of their best customers. Later they shut down the servers for those DRM servers without giving a DRM-free upgrade path, leaving their customers with music they couldn't move from device to device... seriously weak. Zune's failure wasn't a huge surprise; you can't expect to develop a loyal customer base when you shaft your customers.

Sadly iTunes is getting more and more cumbersome to use and Apple keeps changing the interface on the iPod. My third party software can't access current gen iPods so you are stuck with a big clumsy app. Worse, the new iPods don't work with accessories I bought for the previous generation. I am honestly really hesitant to buy another iPod right now, quite a bit frustrated with the two alarm clocks I own (different makes) that don't work with my new iPods.

Kind of a sad evolution, overall the iPod line is going backwards in my opinion.


0gre wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
I am so glad music in Itunes no longer has DRM, I updated my whole collection to Non DRM format.

That was free, right? :P

And for those who don't choose to pay/aren't aware, the network effect remains a strong incentive. In any event, the damage has pretty clearly already been done. Not even the Zune, in my experience a flat-out superior device, could eek out meangingful marketshare; that ship has sailed.

The iPod had no advantages and just out-cooled the Zune? I don't buy that idea. The iPod is a really good player, it had a great interface and managing your library is easy. Essentially that integration and clean product design is what won the day. Zune was fraught with problems from it's parent.

Microsoft discarded their previous DRM solution without an upgrade path when they started up the Zune line alienating some of their best customers. Later they shut down the servers for those DRM servers without giving a DRM-free upgrade path, leaving their customers with music they couldn't move from device to device... seriously weak. Zune's failure wasn't a huge surprise; you can't expect to develop a loyal customer base when you shaft your customers.

Sadly iTunes is getting more and more cumbersome to use and Apple keeps changing the interface on the iPod. My third party software can't access current gen iPods so you are stuck with a big clumsy app. Worse, the new iPods don't work with accessories I bought for the previous generation. I am honestly really hesitant to buy another iPod right now, quite a bit frustrated with the two alarm clocks I own (different makes) that don't work with my new iPods.

Kind of a sad evolution, overall the iPod line is going backwards in my opinion.

"Out-cooling" it has nothing to do with it. As I've already stated, it was the network effect.

Shadow Lodge

Because the music player my buddy is using affects what music player I'm using? I don't see the network effect coming into play on this sort of thing.

Edit: Once you buy one iPod the second one is much easier to use than a new player. Hmm that's not really the network effect though.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
lynnfredricks wrote:
Right! Now give me a reset button to do that AND the ability to deploy applications into that sandbox without going through the monopoly App Store. Such a reset would eliminate many of the issues Apple would have if developers were not forced to use the App Store

Backing up, updating, and restoring your iPod or iPhone

It's really not that hard. Considering it even let's you restore the iPhone to the condition it was in beforehand.

Regarding the ability to install anything you want without using the App Store. You can already do this. Because I fear the web-monkey around here I won't tell you how though. Other than it is very very easy and anyone with the internet can figure it out.

Thanks! That's good to know - I didnt realize that iPhone was easy as iPod for that. The additional problem is that Apple has created various legal barriers to selling your iPhone apps without using the App Store.


Disenchanter wrote:
So, web developers should still be coding with IE6 in mind. Not that I suggest they do.

And some are, over Chrome and Opera even.


0gre wrote:

Because the music player my buddy is using affects what music player I'm using? I don't see the network effect coming into play on this sort of thing.

Edit: Once you buy one iPod the second one is much easier to use than a new player. Hmm that's not really the network effect though.

Sure it is. But it's also that the more people have iPods, the more musicians/labels Apple attracts, which in turn attracts more people to the iPod. Like, say, a game console attracting more software, and in turn selling more hardware.

No offense intended, but the iPod is a pretty clear-cut case of the network effect.

Shadow Lodge

bugleyman wrote:
0gre wrote:

Because the music player my buddy is using affects what music player I'm using? I don't see the network effect coming into play on this sort of thing.

Edit: Once you buy one iPod the second one is much easier to use than a new player. Hmm that's not really the network effect though.

Sure it is. But it's also that the more people have iPods, the more musicians/labels Apple attracts, which in turn attracts more people to the iPod. Like, say, a game console attracting more software, and in turn selling more hardware.

No offense intended, but the iPod is a pretty clear-cut case of the network effect.

Hmm... Facebook is pure network effect. The more people use it the more value it has and the harder it is to escape.

You are presuming the Zune failed based on lack of an adequate music/ media library and I just don't think that is the case. At the time the Zune was released MS access to a library roughly the size of the iPod's and it just didn't gain any traction at all. At the time many (most?) people had large libraries of MP3s on their computers and didn't rely on iTunes for their music needs. This also ignores the music players from other makers which were around well before the iPod (including some running Microsoft's. Microsoft was in the MP3 player market before Apple.


0gre wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
0gre wrote:

Because the music player my buddy is using affects what music player I'm using? I don't see the network effect coming into play on this sort of thing.

Edit: Once you buy one iPod the second one is much easier to use than a new player. Hmm that's not really the network effect though.

Sure it is. But it's also that the more people have iPods, the more musicians/labels Apple attracts, which in turn attracts more people to the iPod. Like, say, a game console attracting more software, and in turn selling more hardware.

No offense intended, but the iPod is a pretty clear-cut case of the network effect.

Hmm... Facebook is pure network effect. The more people use it the more value it has and the harder it is to escape.

You are presuming the Zune failed based on lack of an adequate music/ media library and I just don't think that is the case. At the time the Zune was released MS access to a library roughly the size of the iPod's and it just didn't gain any traction at all. At the time many (most?) people had large libraries of MP3s on their computers and didn't rely on iTunes for their music needs. This also ignores the music players from other makers which were around well before the iPod (including some running Microsoft's. Microsoft was in the MP3 player market before Apple.

So let's agree to disagree about the iPod. Can we agree that the potential for the network effect exists in the case of iOS devices? That's what I'm actually concerned about.

Shadow Lodge

bugleyman wrote:
So let's agree to disagree about the iPod. Can we agree that the potential for the network effect exists in the case of iOS devices? That's what I'm actually concerned about.

I don't know, it seems like this should be the case but strangely the Android has been making traction in the market in spite of a relatively late start. It is going to be nearly impossible for new entrants to get into the market soon because they won't be able to attract developers.

Blackberry and Microsoft both had early entries in this market and though Blackberry still has market share they have clearly entrenched themselves into the corporate world with no escape in sight. Microsoft has simply not been able to attract a fan base, whether thats due to lack of developers or poor product I'm not sure.

I have an old school phone and beyond GPS and perhaps some photo software I'm not sure what apps I would use on my phone. In my opinion ubiquitous access to the web is a huge equalizer.


0gre wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
So let's agree to disagree about the iPod. Can we agree that the potential for the network effect exists in the case of iOS devices? That's what I'm actually concerned about.

I don't know, it seems like this should be the case but strangely the Android has been making traction in the market in spite of a relatively late start. It is going to be nearly impossible for new entrants to get into the market soon because they won't be able to attract developers.

Blackberry and Microsoft both had early entries in this market and though Blackberry still has market share they have clearly entrenched themselves into the corporate world with no escape in sight. Microsoft has simply not been able to attract a fan base, whether thats due to lack of developers or poor product I'm not sure.

I have an old school phone and beyond GPS and perhaps some photo software I'm not sure what apps I would use on my phone. In my opinion ubiquitous access to the web is a huge equalizer.

I really hope you're right; I'd hate to see the PC as an open platform die.

Shadow Lodge

bugleyman wrote:
I really hope you're right; I'd hate to see the PC as an open platform die.

Hmm... I think IBM, then later Microsoft proved that you can only milk/ abuse a market so much and people will go a different direction.


Another nail in the Flash coffin:

Hulu - Plus for mobile devices.

Hulu was one of the big reasons being touted about as to what the iPhone/iPad would miss if they didn't include Flash. Note that Android isn't even listed as an available device. This is not a good thing for Adobe.

Greg

Edit: url encoding fixed. Now it works... Thanks Scipion.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

That link is dead as a nail as well.


GregH wrote:

Another nail in the Flash coffin:

Hulu - Plus for mobile devices.

I'm not certain it counts as a nail. Under the PC requirements, you need Adobe Flash Player.

It certainly doesn't help Flash...

-------------------------------

A California law firm is looking for Apple users to file complaints against Apple.

-------------------------------

Do not want to get a micro sim card for your iPad 3g, or iPhone 4? Cut your existing one to size.


Disenchanter wrote:
I'm not certain it counts as a nail. Under the PC requirements, you need Adobe Flash Player.

Fair enough. Flash will likely never disappear. But...

Disenchanter wrote:
It certainly doesn't help Flash...

No it doesn't. The only thing Flash has going for it, is it is required for most internet multimedia (movies, games, etc.)

With games like Farmville being ported to iOS (as an example) and now Hulu available without Flash, it is not looking good.

As soon IE9 comes out with full HTML5 support, Adobe is going to wondering what was the number of the truck that hit them.

Greg

Shadow Lodge

GregH wrote:
Disenchanter wrote:
I'm not certain it counts as a nail. Under the PC requirements, you need Adobe Flash Player.

Fair enough. Flash will likely never disappear. But...

Disenchanter wrote:
It certainly doesn't help Flash...

No it doesn't. The only thing Flash has going for it, is it is required for most internet multimedia (movies, games, etc.)

With games like Farmville being ported to iOS (as an example) and now Hulu available without Flash, it is not looking good.

As soon IE9 comes out with full HTML5 support, Adobe is going to wondering what was the number of the truck that hit them.

Greg

Flash had 2 big things going for it.

  • it was the only cross platform rich media web environment around that had good penetration.
  • It was the only decent way to stream video on the web consistently across platforms

    Since there is a big javascript performance race the first advantage has all but disappeared. Javascript games on Chrome/ safari/ firefox aren't quite as fast as flash games but it's pretty close.

    Obviously html5 video is going to kill the need for flash to stream video.

    There are tons of flash games and things like farmville out there but ultimately it's days are numbered.


  • Apple tech support script allegedly leaked.
    The most telling of this story, is the lack of mentioning a software fix. Everything else needs a healthy dash of salt.

    Shadow Lodge

    Interesting survey on iPad satisfaction.

    Quote:

    Executive summary in case you don’t feel like reading the rest of this article: They like it. A lot. Ninety-eight percent say they’re satisfied with their iPads overall; ninety-six percent think it’s a good value. <snip>

    In only one major area did unhappy campers dominate: A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process. More than half also wish Apple had given the tablet printing capabilities, a memory-card slot, and a front-facing camera.

    The extremely warm response for the iPad isn’t astonishing. (Come to think of it, it’s reminiscent of the raves we heard about Windows 7 in our survey about that operating system.) Early adopters, pretty much by definition, are people who are extremely excited about a new product; unless it abjectly fails to deliver on its promises, it makes sense that they’d be inclined to be upbeat. (Here’s a story idea for somebody–maybe us–for another time: Conduct a survey of people who bought iPads and then returned them.)

    Some interesting commentary on the flash video from the worlds biggest internet video company.

    Quote:
    We’re very happy to see such active and enthusiastic discussion about evolving web standards - YouTube is dependent on browser enhancement in order for us to improve the video experience for our users. While HTML5’s video support enables us to bring most of the content and features of YouTube to computers and other devices that don’t support Flash Player, it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube’s video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it.

    RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

    Disenchanter wrote:

    Apple tech support script allegedly leaked.

    The most telling of this story, is the lack of mentioning a software fix. Everything else needs a healthy dash of salt.

    Your link is dead so I can only hazard a guess as to what it's about, but I have heard that Apple phone support is all unscripted. I have no idea where I heard that from.


    0gre wrote:

    Some interesting commentary on the flash video from the worlds biggest internet video company.

    Quote:
    We’re very happy to see such active and enthusiastic discussion about evolving web standards - YouTube is dependent on browser enhancement in order for us to improve the video experience for our users. While HTML5’s video support enables us to bring most of the content and features of YouTube to computers and other devices that don’t support Flash Player, it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube’s video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it.

    I skimmed this article. They phrased it as a "this is why Flash is better than HTML5" list, but if I were working on HTML5, I'd read it like a to do list.

    That's just me, though.

    Greg

    Shadow Lodge

    GregH wrote:

    I skimmed this article. They phrased it as a "this is why Flash is better than HTML5" list, but if I were working on HTML5, I'd read it like a to do list.

    That's just me, though.

    Greg

    The problem is HTML 5 is a shared standard made by committee. There is so much infighting in the governing body that it's very difficult to implement changes and they take years to get through.


    0gre wrote:
    The problem is HTML 5 is a shared standard made by committee. There is so much infighting in the governing body that it's very difficult to implement changes and they take years to get through.

    I'm sure you're right. I was just kinda wondering if Youtube was sending a coded message to the HTML5 people obliquely while praising Flash in the forefront of the piece.

    Probably just my overactive imagination, though.

    Greg


    Scipion del Ferro wrote:
    Disenchanter wrote:

    Apple tech support script allegedly leaked.

    The most telling of this story, is the lack of mentioning a software fix. Everything else needs a healthy dash of salt.
    Your link is dead so I can only hazard a guess as to what it's about, but I have heard that Apple phone support is all unscripted. I have no idea where I heard that from.

    Are you sure it isn't blocked?

    Because it works fine for me.

    ---------------------------------------

    Apple is hiring antenna engineers.

    Shadow Lodge

    GregH wrote:

    I'm sure you're right. I was just kinda wondering if Youtube was sending a coded message to the HTML5 people obliquely while praising Flash in the forefront of the piece.

    Probably just my overactive imagination, though.

    Greg

    Well keep in mind the YouTube folks are Google employees so they have their own agenda.

    RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

    Disenchanter wrote:

    Are you sure it isn't blocked?

    Because it works fine for me.

    ---------------------------------------

    Apple is hiring antenna engineers.

    That is a possibility. My center has only recently discovered the wonders of server blocking. Seems an obscure site to block though. Usually they just focus on Failbook and that other one.


    0gre wrote:
    Well keep in mind the YouTube folks are Google employees so they have their own agenda.

    That should put them on the VP8 and WebM bandwagon, then, shouldn't it?

    Greg

    Shadow Lodge

    GregH wrote:
    0gre wrote:
    Well keep in mind the YouTube folks are Google employees so they have their own agenda.

    That should put them on the VP8 and WebM bandwagon, then, shouldn't it?

    Greg

    They are defintiely on the webm bandwagon but they also have a huge library of videos in h.264 and they are likely to maintain that since it's pretty much required for iPhone


    Apple actually being sued over antenna problem.
    Wired article,
    The Register article.


    Disenchanter wrote:

    Apple actually being sued over antenna problem.

    Wired article,
    The Register article.

    I wonder if Apple will bring Consumer Reports to the stand as a defence witness?

    Greg


    GregH wrote:
    Disenchanter wrote:

    Apple actually being sued over antenna problem.

    Wired article,
    The Register article.

    I wonder if Apple will bring Consumer Reports to the stand as a defence witness?

    Greg

    Did you read the AnandTech article the consumer reports article links to?

    It shows that the attenuation problem is worse on the iPhone 4 than any other phone. But you know, when Apple fixes the bar display problem, that will all go away. So there is nothing to worry about.


    Disenchanter wrote:

    Did you read the AnandTech article the consumer reports article links to?

    It shows that the attenuation problem is worse on the iPhone 4 than any other phone. But you know, when Apple fixes the bar display problem, that will all go away. So there is nothing to worry about.

    I've read a few articles. So, yes I know there is an attenuation problem, but it also seems that Apple has been overinflating the representation of the signal strength. Which, in this instance, would visibly magnify the attenuation issue.

    Y'know I ain't defending Apple. I said earlier in this thread that its going to be a PR disaster for Apple. But when Consumer f*** Reports comes out and says that it's not as big a deal as being made out to be, maybe people should take it into consideration, no?

    Or do we only accept that information that is damning to Apple?

    Greg


    GregH wrote:
    But when Consumer f*** Reports comes out and says that it's not as big a deal as being made out to be, maybe people should take it into consideration, no?

    You mean the same Consumer Reports that have edited their previous article (the one you linked) to include an admission that their journalist can reproduce the signal loss/dropped calls outside of their testing lab? That Consumer Reports?

    ((It appears that their testing lab gets very good reception. I am betting they have a tower on their building, or just outside.))

    And I have been thinking about it a bit. It seems to me that this might be a similar issue to the iPad reception problems we do not hear anything about anymore.

    Alex Albrecht said on Diggnation that he predicts this will be Apples' "Red Ring of Death," meaning Apple will try to deflect it, and deflect it, but will eventually have to step up and accept responsibility for a serious flaw in their design.


    0gre wrote:
    The problem is HTML 5 is a shared standard made by committee. There is so much infighting in the governing body that it's very difficult to implement changes and they take years to get through.

    What is bothering me is that SJ is making an argument that HTML 5 is a replacement for Flash, and that people are really buying that.

    These are technologies that work just fine together and one does not eliminate the other at all. Yes, you can do many things with HTML 5 that you used to rely on Flash for - but you can develop very sophisticated applications right now in a mature editing environment with Flash, that you just cannot do with HTML 5.

    Don't do an SJ and in turn say I am saying HTML 5 is a bad thing - except for the promotion of closed source/patent paying video technologies, I think its great - it would be even better if it was supported cleanly in all shipping browsers.

    I don't like being put into the position of defending Flash because it isn't my favorite tool, but SJ is targeting cross platform development. Cross platform development gives developers choice and control that goes beyond browsers and operating system vendors.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    As this thread is where the Apple experts are hanging out, I'd like some advice? Just bought an iPad and would like some idea of what pdf reader app you guys would recommend? I was told that the ebook reader will be abel to deal with pdfs 'soon' but I know how long 'soon' can be in software development.

    Advice on a decent word processor app wouldn't go amiss, either.

    Thanks in advance.

    Grand Lodge

    Paul Watson wrote:

    As this thread is where the Apple experts are hanging out, I'd like some advice? Just bought an iPad and would like some idea of what pdf reader app you guys would recommend? I was told that the ebook reader will be abel to deal with pdfs 'soon' but I know how long 'soon' can be in software development.

    Advice on a decent word processor app wouldn't go amiss, either.

    Thanks in advance.

    I would go with Goodreader. It was 0.59 pounds in the UK and I think 0.99 dollar US. Works fine - you can even directly connect to the store. Doesn't.t like the five sec redirection (throws an error message) but you can then browse to the personalised PDF and download it.

    It's even easier if you already have all files on the computer.

    There is one drawback - due to fonts used the headings tend to be garbled a lot . It's mainly the 'a' that causes issues. Text is fine and cheap enough to wait for iBook .

    Thod

    Liberty's Edge

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    Thod wrote:
    Paul Watson wrote:

    As this thread is where the Apple experts are hanging out, I'd like some advice? Just bought an iPad and would like some idea of what pdf reader app you guys would recommend? I was told that the ebook reader will be abel to deal with pdfs 'soon' but I know how long 'soon' can be in software development.

    Advice on a decent word processor app wouldn't go amiss, either.

    Thanks in advance.

    I would go with Goodreader. It was 0.59 pounds in the UK and I think 0.99 dollar US. Works fine - you can even directly connect to the store. Doesn't.t like the five sec redirection (throws an error message) but you can then browse to the personalised PDF and download it.

    It's even easier if you already have all files on the computer.

    There is one drawback - due to fonts used the headings tend to be garbled a lot . It's mainly the 'a' that causes issues. Text is fine and cheap enough to wait for iBook .

    Thod

    Thanks. I've been assured, repeatedly, that it's fairly easy to use itunes to sync pdfs from my computer to the ipad. I hope that's true. If not, any suggestions?

    Shadow Lodge

    lynnfredricks wrote:
    0gre wrote:
    The problem is HTML 5 is a shared standard made by committee. There is so much infighting in the governing body that it's very difficult to implement changes and they take years to get through.

    What is bothering me is that SJ is making an argument that HTML 5 is a replacement for Flash, and that people are really buying that.

    These are technologies that work just fine together and one does not eliminate the other at all. Yes, you can do many things with HTML 5 that you used to rely on Flash for - but you can develop very sophisticated applications right now in a mature editing environment with Flash, that you just cannot do with HTML 5.

    Don't do an SJ and in turn say I am saying HTML 5 is a bad thing - except for the promotion of closed source/patent paying video technologies, I think its great - it would be even better if it was supported cleanly in all shipping browsers.

    I don't like being put into the position of defending Flash because it isn't my favorite tool, but SJ is targeting cross platform development. Cross platform development gives developers choice and control that goes beyond browsers and operating system vendors.

    Let me start with this. I've never cared for flash. This isn't something new, I've hated proprietary plug-ins from day one. The fact that most of them are gone and Flash is about the only surviver makes life much easier but there are still tons of issues with it.

    The fact that the respective groups have finally gotten their stuff together and come up with a decent set of standards is awesome to me.

    Flash supports the platforms Adobe sees fit to port it to, were I to come out with a new platform I would have to beg adobe to play nice with me. It was years before Flash was reasonably supported under Linux. I can port Webkit, or Firefox to get HTML5 support on whatever platform I want. Further html5 can degrade gracefully to older platforms that don't support the full spec.

    Flash is more or less a necessary evil that is becoming less necessary by the day.

    On the other hand Jobs abuses the HTML5 moniker. The whole reason Jobs is pushing flash away isn't because it competes with the HTML5 it's because it competes with the apps that run natively on the iPhone. Steve Jobs did a really nice switcheroo on that one.

    Shadow Lodge

    Developers prefer Android

    Considering how important Apps are the fact that developers are interested in Android and planning to support Android long term suggests Android has a decent future in spite of the head start the iPhone has.

    Similarly the complete lack of interest in the Windows 7 phone and Symbian pretty much foreshadows a slow death for those platforms. They might survive by making some sort of support for Android apps.


    Paul Watson wrote:
    Thanks. I've been assured, repeatedly, that it's fairly easy to use itunes to sync pdfs from my computer to the ipad. I hope that's true. If not, any suggestions?

    I'm only going by hearsay... But I've read enough people complain that iTunes doesn't sync non-media files enough to be concerned that if it does, it isn't obvious enough.

    From what I read on these forums is that when you have Goodreader installed, you have the option to download your Paizo PDFs "into Goodreader." Meaning you have the option to download to whatever method iOS and Goodreader use to associate those PDFs with Goodreader.

    Beyond that, I do not have any knowledge on the subject, sorry.

    EDIT:: For another thread, I was looking up cloud storage and came across ZumoDrive. It stood out to me because they have an iPhone app that lets you access your cloud drive from the iOS. That might be the best way to access files on an iPad.

    Liberty's Edge

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    Paul Watson wrote:

    Thanks. I've been assured, repeatedly, that it's fairly easy to use itunes to sync pdfs from my computer to the ipad. I hope that's true. If not, any suggestions?

    Goodreader has a program on their webpage called either goodreaderusb or usbgoodreader, that allows transfer of files much easier then any other method. The program runs on your pc, it is not an app, almost makes the iPad act like an external storage device, but only adds stuff to good reader app on the iPad.

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    Dragnmoon wrote:
    Paul Watson wrote:

    Thanks. I've been assured, repeatedly, that it's fairly easy to use itunes to sync pdfs from my computer to the ipad. I hope that's true. If not, any suggestions?

    Goodreader has a program on their webpage called either goodreaderusb or usbgoodreader, that allows transfer of files much easier then any other method. The program runs on your pc, it is not an app, almost makes the iPad act like an external storage device, but only adds stuff to good reader app on the iPad.

    Cheers. I'll look into that.


    Paul Watson wrote:


    Thanks. I've been assured, repeatedly, that it's fairly easy to use itunes to sync pdfs from my computer to the ipad. I hope that's true. If not, any suggestions?

    Very easy to transfer files using a number of modalities. First can drag and drop files in iTunes when device connected to sync. Other options are accessible within Goodreader itself: can connect to your computer using wifi local network and again drag and drop; you can access Cloud based files (my favourite being Dropbox) with the most common sources already setup just waiting your account info; download from email servers; and I believe there is another way that I can't recall right now but the above are simple enough that someone like myself who knew nothing about these things 3 months ago, was able to figure it out. Goodreader has very good step by step help files.


    GregH wrote:


    I've read a few articles. So, yes I know there is an attenuation problem, but it also seems that Apple has been overinflating the representation of the signal strength.

    Isn't that false advertising?

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    KaeYoss wrote:
    GregH wrote:


    I've read a few articles. So, yes I know there is an attenuation problem, but it also seems that Apple has been overinflating the representation of the signal strength.
    Isn't that false advertising?

    I think it would be more along the lines of "inaccurate readings."


    Scipion del Ferro wrote:
    KaeYoss wrote:
    GregH wrote:


    I've read a few articles. So, yes I know there is an attenuation problem, but it also seems that Apple has been overinflating the representation of the signal strength.
    Isn't that false advertising?
    I think it would be more along the lines of "inaccurate readings."

    The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

    I do not know much about China based manufacturing plants, but if they run anything like the ones I have worked for in the US, the likelihood of absolutely no one within the Apple organization knowing about the signal display falsely reporting higher results is very unlikely.

    Before anyone explodes, let me say this in not the same thing as claiming it was done intentionally. Although, that is possible as well. I can see an executive decision to make sure Apple phones consistently report one or more bars of reception than every other phone in the same situation to make theirs appear to be better.

    But what I mean is that it is all too likely that there was a middle management decision to ignore the inaccuracies to meet production pressure. So, it isn't likely a full accident. But I wouldn't claim intentionally misleading either.

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