OK, there seems to be one major thing missing here: what about Pitax? The Concluding the Adventure section in War of the River Kings says this volume was supposed to have details on the takeover of Pitax and how that process could affect the First World invasion. I mean we don't even have proper building lists for the city, or a map of the whole country and the other villages and their buildings, etc. So what got cut in development or just plain overlooked?It pretty much got cut. As in, by the time we realized what we had to do with the adventure there was no room for more about Pitax in the last adventure, especially since we'd have to do a LOT of coverage to provide advice and rules for various possibilities on how Pitax ends up in the previous adventure.
The last adventure's not really about Pitax, in other words, so we had to let that go. An adventure where we explore the stabilization of Pitax would have been just that, an entire adventure, and that's no the direction we wanted to go with the Stolen Lands since it would have taken us TOO far out of the sandbox.
I know my players and they will want to annexe the entire country and probably go after all the River Kingdomes they consider to be in need of 'Regime Change'
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I know my players and they will want to annex the entire country and probably go after all the River Kingdoms they consider to be in need of 'Regime Change'
Mivon is the next on my list after Pitax, as well as the southern part of Brevoy (the former Rostland). Honestly, I could see the path of conquest taking a party all the way to the Sellen River itself, with Outsea and Artume.
I noticed Narissa only has an SR or 20 meaning a PC can role a 3 or maybe even less. James is that a typo?
In a related note I think making her into an arcane heirophant. I will probably take 3 levels of Scout to get trackless step. That should keep her around a CR 21, 22 at the most.
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I know my players and they will want to annexe the entire country and probably go after all the River Kingdomes they consider to be in need of 'Regime Change'OK, there seems to be one major thing missing here: what about Pitax? The Concluding the Adventure section in War of the River Kings says this volume was supposed to have details on the takeover of Pitax and how that process could affect the First World invasion. I mean we don't even have proper building lists for the city, or a map of the whole country and the other villages and their buildings, etc. So what got cut in development or just plain overlooked?It pretty much got cut. As in, by the time we realized what we had to do with the adventure there was no room for more about Pitax in the last adventure, especially since we'd have to do a LOT of coverage to provide advice and rules for various possibilities on how Pitax ends up in the previous adventure.
The last adventure's not really about Pitax, in other words, so we had to let that go. An adventure where we explore the stabilization of Pitax would have been just that, an entire adventure, and that's no the direction we wanted to go with the Stolen Lands since it would have taken us TOO far out of the sandbox.
hmm. After reading this PF all I can say is wow!! It definitely is a stand alone. Yet, it does tie everything in nicely. I'm not sure about Choral the Conquerer coming back but how awesome would that be? I believe if the pcs beat Choral how much of Brevoy would back them? My pcs probably would not have even thought of attacking Brevoy. I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
My group would also fill the first world elders with sharp pointy things if they tried to humble the party.
Ok, am I the *ONLY* one that noticed the worm that walks? AWESOME! KYUSS LIVES!
Strangely enough I was going to tie AoW into this campaign to avoid a 3rd reset. I still might tie it in, but run AoW for the 3rd time(sigh). The forest could be where Kyuss old fortress was, and the fey magic could have been what was keeping him at bay. The current PC's have unwittingly unleashed another evil to be handled by a new group of adventurers.
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Ok, am I the *ONLY* one that noticed the worm that walks? AWESOME! KYUSS LIVES!Strangely enough I was going to tie AoW into this campaign to avoid a 3rd reset. I still might tie it in, but run AoW for the 3rd time(sigh). The forest could be where Kyuss old fortress was, and the fey magic could have been what was keeping him at bay. The current PC's have unwittingly unleashed another evil to be handled by a new group of adventurers.
lol I like that idea.
Creative Director
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My group would also fill the first world elders with sharp pointy things if they tried to humble the party.
I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
Keep in mind that the Elders are demigods. They're the same power level as a demon lord. That means CR 30 to 40 or thereabouts. They're not pushovers.
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Keep in mind that the Elders are demigods. They're the same power level as a demon lord. That means CR 30 to 40 or thereabouts. They're not pushovers.My group would also fill the first world elders with sharp pointy things if they tried to humble the party.
I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
My peeps would feel like they are being railroaded by me after all they've been through. Really?...
Keep in mind that the Elders are demigods. They're the same power level as a demon lord. That means CR 30 to 40 or thereabouts. They're not pushovers.My group would also fill the first world elders with sharp pointy things if they tried to humble the party.
I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
Then again maybe some leveling up is in order before backtalking the elders.
One possible route to continue that is not explored in the module is Gyronna. Over the course of the AP, the players have likely destroyed a fledgling cult of hers, killed two mid-ranking priestesses of her and at last a really high-ranking hag follower. Would give her a good reason to want some revenge...
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One possible route to continue that is not explored in the module is Gyronna. Over the course of the AP, the players have likely destroyed a fledgling cult of hers, killed two mid-ranking priestesses of her and at last a really high-ranking hag follower. Would give her a good reason to want some revenge...
I'll probably make the Gyronna encounters more meaningful especially the one where they've switched babies out with ? their own versions. I want to make this thread something that they may take to be more important. Maybe from ap 31 when they clean out stag lord's hideout I'll have more history of the monks there etc.
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My peeps would feel like they are being railroaded by me after all they've been through. Really?...Keep in mind that the Elders are demigods. They're the same power level as a demon lord. That means CR 30 to 40 or thereabouts. They're not pushovers.My group would also fill the first world elders with sharp pointy things if they tried to humble the party.
I'm not sure about First World Elders wanting the pcs to humble themselves. My pcs would absolutely say no!!
I had a similar group once. At least, a group that had a similar mindset about their accomplishments. At 1st level, when they got their first big treasure haul, they were like, "So this is a lot of money, right? We're rich now and can do whatever we want, right?" I said, sure. You can retire now. You win. They didn't understand that the object is more than just beating the challenge and retiring. There's always another challenge and there always will be as long as the players are ready to take it on.
(might let them have a parade first, though)
Maybe I've missed it, but I couldn't find:
Thanks!
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Creative Director
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Maybe I've missed it, but I couldn't find:
** spoiler omitted **Thanks!
Its eye rays have a range increment of 60 feet.
At least, the jabberwock in the upcoming Bestairy 2 does. And since it's basically just a higher CR version of the lesser one we printed in the adventure, that works fine.
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Creative Director
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I have a question, but first some praise: this adventure is amazing. It is by far one of the best high-level adventures I've ever seen.
Now the question: are we going to see the Wriggling Man's "worm that walks" template? I've always loved that template, and prefer the powered down version here to the Epic Level Handbook's.
I tried to reverse-engineer the template as best as I could. Here's what I got:
** spoiler omitted **
The worm that walks template, rebalanced for a non-epic game from the SRD, will be in Bestiary 2.
The Nightmare Rook has a "Feign Death" ability, but it isn't explained anywhere.
Winged Owlbears ... Worm That Walks ... Crazy Fay Mansions ... Sir Pett is a genius. Best final AP adventure, narrowly ahead of Spires of Xin-Shalast (sorry Greg !)
Huzzah!
But as ever, James is as responsible as I, if not more so.
Where's Vaughn's email address?:)
Slithers away to send hate mail...
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Creative Director
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I noticed Narissa only has an SR or 20 meaning a PC can role a 3 or maybe even less. James is that a typo?Nyrissa's spell resistance comes from her scarab of protection. Nymphs don't have SR. Fortunately for Nyrissa, her saving throws are so high that she'll probably only fail on a natural 1.
Ah; there ya go. I figured it was something like that. Her scarab is, of course, mostly to help protect her from death and level drain stuff, but it'll also come in handy if the PCs use wands or summoned monsters with lower caster levels.
And honestly, if PCs who stuck with one class and have high Caster Levels as a result get to feel a bit badass for punching through her SR at this endgame fight, that's good.
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narrowly ahead of Spires of Xin-Shalast (sorry Greg !)It's okay. Dementia can set in on even the best of us. I hope you are receiving good care. ;-)
Now I'm off to adjust the spam filter on my e-mail to not accept any correspondence that uses a "u" in the word armor.
Surely that should read "correctly uses a "u" in the word armor".
:P
Just doing my bit for Anglo-American relations.
Looking over Nyrissa's stat bloc, I see that her Bonus HP is 294, but adding everything up I only come up with 288 (24hd x +11 con and +1 toughness) I cant figure out where the extra 6 HP are coming from.
Is it a magical ability or class ability I missed?
Looking over Nyrissa's stat bloc, I see that her Bonus HP is 294, but adding everything up I only come up with 288 (24hd x +11 con and +1 toughness) I cant figure out where the extra 6 HP are coming from.
Is it a magical ability or class ability I missed?
Iy may be a typo, but 6 points at that level wont mean much. I would just let her keep them.
Why is the final boss of the AP in one of the smallest room in the entire dungeon...
At least it isn't like Council of Thieves, where there were two of them in a 2x2 room.
She definitely needs twice as much space, minimum, I'd say.
small rooms? excellent spot for a electric proof mage to toss off a lightningbolt :p and while the same bolt hits everyone like 15+ times, the mage is busy tossing anther..
small rooms? excellent spot for a electric proof mage to toss off a lightningbolt :p and while the same bolt hits everyone like 15+ times, the mage is busy tossing anther..
Are you still bouncing bolts!
small rooms? excellent spot for a electric proof mage to toss off a lightningbolt :p and while the same bolt hits everyone like 15+ times, the mage is busy tossing anther..Are you still bouncing bolts!
But ofcourse ;)
same with fireballs needing their space.. so some area spells are considered downright dangerous for the caster in close quarters :p
...and why persistent energy immunities are quite popular..
np: leila K -electric :D
..out of control .. people get electric..
hehe
I just wanted to throw in that reading through the House at the end reminded me greatly of Castle Amber - lovely work all around Mr. Pett!
At least it isn't like Council of Thieves, where there were two of them in a 2x2 room.
Spoilers man, spoilers!
I have three questions about the Fable. Two practical, one design.
1)
So long as Thousandbreaths is in the First World, I'm cool with the idea of the Fable not really existing anywhere. The PCs can't fly to it and bore in through the wall. Cool. However, what happens once it uproots? Where exactly does it exist? Is it just a tower on the premises? (If so, roughly where? Behind the house, I guess?) Can the PCs fly up to it and bore through the wall?
2)
Is there a way to move between the rooms in the Fable? In other words, if Nyrissa wants to go from her scrying pool to her bedroom, how does she do it? Does she have to take "the long way" (go to the throne room, walk upstairs, go to her fake bedroom, go to her real bedroom)? Or can she directly phase over there (using DimDoor or somesuch)? This is relevant as that's where she keeps Briar.
3)
What is the "point" of the first two rooms in the Fable? (ie the grassy field and the huge tree). They seem like somewhat cool areas. Are they just red herrings? Or can you travel between them somehow, resulting in a freaky 4-dimensional combat arena?
I just wanted to throw in that reading through the House at the end reminded me greatly of Castle Amber - lovely work all around Mr. Pett!
*SPOILER OMITTED*Spoilers man, spoilers!
Ah, I'm sorry! I saw it and tried to edit it but got a messageboard down and then it completely slipped my mind until now.
Apologies.
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Creative Director
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I'll give a try at answering these, even though I'm kinda woozy and feverish from the Con Crud and don't have a copy of PF #36 at hand...
1)
So long as Thousandbreaths is in the First World, I'm cool with the idea of the Fable not really existing anywhere. The PCs can't fly to it and bore in through the wall. Cool. However, what happens once it uproots? Where exactly does it exist? Is it just a tower on the premises? (If so, roughly where? Behind the house, I guess?) Can the PCs fly up to it and bore through the wall?
The fable still exists in its weird pocket dimension once the house uproots, but that pocket dimension acts like it's on the Material Plane and not the First World; it remains a bolthole for Nyrissa to hide in.
2)
Is there a way to move between the rooms in the Fable? In other words, if Nyrissa wants to go from her scrying pool to her bedroom, how does she do it? Does she have to take "the long way" (go to the throne room, walk upstairs, go to her fake bedroom, go to her real bedroom)? Or can she directly phase over there (using DimDoor or somesuch)? This is relevant as that's where she keeps Briar.
She takes the long way... but she can do so via stepping out and dimension dooring to the other entrance. While the whole place is in the first world, you should consider letting her move from room to room in the Fable via dimension door directly, though (PCs can't do this).
3)
What is the "point" of the first two rooms in the Fable? (ie the grassy field and the huge tree). They seem like somewhat cool areas. Are they just red herrings? Or can you travel between them somehow, resulting in a freaky 4-dimensional combat arena?
They're merely other areas for Nyrissa to hide out in in case she needs a place to go, really. And cool places for the PCs to discover.
ORIGINALLY, the idea was to let there be a lot of moving between the four rooms, but that got a bit too complex to work out in the limited space of the adventure. So they just turned into four rooms Nyrissa uses to hide out in.
As for why we put the Big Bad End Boss into a small room... Before Thousandbreaths uproots, these rooms are NOT small; they're big. It's only if the PCs do their jobs right and uproot the place that they shrink to the actual sizes listed on the maps; this is a perk and a bonus to the PCs to help constrain Nyrissa's mobility in the rooms.
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Creative Director
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Looking over Nyrissa's stat bloc, I see that her Bonus HP is 294, but adding everything up I only come up with 288 (24hd x +11 con and +1 toughness) I cant figure out where the extra 6 HP are coming from.
Is it a magical ability or class ability I missed?
My guess: She's getting some bonus hp from favored class levels.
Or maybe it's just a case of her rolling a few 5s instead of 4s on her Hit Dice; hp are technically a random value, after all, and being 6 points off the average is nothing to worry about.
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Looking over Nyrissa's stat bloc, I see that her Bonus HP is 294, but adding everything up I only come up with 288 (24hd x +11 con and +1 toughness) I cant figure out where the extra 6 HP are coming from.
Is it a magical ability or class ability I missed?
My guess: She's getting some bonus hp from favored class levels.
Or maybe it's just a case of her rolling a few 5s instead of 4s on her Hit Dice; hp are technically a random value, after all, and being 6 points off the average is nothing to worry about.
Sorcerer 6 = 6 hp from favored class.
It really would be better if the stat blocks would just show all the hp math, though. Con bonus, favored class bonus, Toughness, and whatever else, all shown separately. 8d6 (nymph HD) +6d6 (Sorcerer HD) +10d6 (Mystic Theurge HD) +264 (24 * +11 Con bonus) +6 (6 levels of Favored Class) +24 (Toughness).
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Creative Director
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It really would be better if the stat blocks would just show all the hp math, though. Con bonus, favored class bonus, Toughness, and whatever else, all shown separately. 8d6 (nymph HD) +6d6 (Sorcerer HD) +10d6 (Mystic Theurge HD) +264 (24 * +11 Con bonus) +6 (6 levels of Favored Class) +24 (Toughness).
This is a case where we have to leave the stat block reverse engineers in the lurch, alas, since putting that level of detail and showing our work into the stat block would not only make it uglier, but also would make it longer by at least a line and would make it harder to find the actual hp in the first place.
I'd actually like to not show the bonuses for AC either, but that's a different story.
In the end, when we're forced to make choices between succinct vs. complex in a stat block, we generally try to go for succinct in order to keep things simple.
Sorcerer 6 = 6 hp from favored class.
I always forget those favored class HPs or SPs.
For the record I didn't care that she might have had 6 more HPs, I just like to know the math so If I change anything I know what I'm doing.
I actually run numbers on most of the main NPCs just in case I change something later, or I have a change in mind to fit my campaign now.
My most common change though is maxing out the HPs for a given baddie, like I did for Cheif Sootscale back in book 1.
I understand the need for brevity, but breaking it down to Con + favored class (if any) + Toughness (if any) would be helpful and could prevent such confusion in the future.
Why would it matter where hp came from?
Why would it matter where hp came from?
In case you want to change something that will affect HPs. If you took away her Sorc Lvs to replace them with something else but didn't know that those 6 had come from that she would be left with them.
