paizo.com Recent Posts in Liesingerpaizo.com Recent Posts in Liesinger2012-11-15T22:22:54Z2012-11-15T22:22:54ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#642010-04-05T14:36:17Z2010-04-05T14:35:43Z<p>Posting the stats I have now before I edit the life out of them. Gottay say, I have nothing but respect for the 16 who pulled this off in 72 hours.</p>
<p>I <i>did</i> manage to get it in under 700 words; lost some info that I might have otherwise included, but the result I think is a tighter and better-focused monster.</p>
<p><b>Liesinger CR 6</b>
<br />
<i>A vast, grinning mouth hovers eerily before you, lips pitch-black and bleeding and every fang a different color. It bobs merrily to and fro, filling the air with a strange and beautiful melody.</i>
<br />
XP 2,400
<br />
CN Large outsider (chaotic, extraplanar)
<br />
<b>Init</b> +2; <b>Senses</b> darkvision 60 feet; Perception +11
<br />
<b>Aura</b> Madness Song 50 feet
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Defense</b>
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>AC</b> 16, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+2 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 natural, -1 size)
<br />
<b>hp</b> 68 (8d10+24); +5 temporary (renews every round)
<br />
<b>Fort</b> +10, <b>Ref</b> +6, <b>Will</b> +8
<br />
<b>Immune</b> confusion, fear <b>SR</b> 18
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Offense</b>
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Speed</b> fly 20 ft. (perfect)
<br />
<b>Melee</b> Bite +10 (4d6+3)
<br />
<b>Space</b> 10 ft.; <b>Reach</b> 5 ft.
<br />
<b>Spell-Like Abilities</b> (CL 8th; concentration +12)
<br />
3/day—Hideous Laughter (DC 16), Sound Burst (DC 16)
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Statistics</b>
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Str</b> 12, <b>Dex</b> 14, <b>Con</b> 15, <b>Int</b> 15, <b>Wis</b> 10, <b>Cha</b> 18
<br />
<b>Base Atk</b> +8; <b>CMB</b> +12; <b>CMD </b>23
<br />
<b>Feats</b> Dodge, Mobility, Step Up, Toughness
<br />
<b>Skills</b> Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Fly +13, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (planes) +13, Linguistics +13, Perception +11, Sense Motive +11
<br />
<b>Languages</b> Abyssal, Auran, Celestial, Common, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Sylvan, Undercommon
<br />
<b>SQ</b> Cradle of Lies
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Ecology</b>
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Environment</b> any land
<br />
<b>Organization</b> Troop (1 plus 4-20 thralls of various races; see Cradle of Lies)
<br />
<b>Treasure</b> none
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Special Abilities</b>
<br />
=====
<br />
<b>Madness Song (Su)</b> The liesinger’s song inspires a strange mania of detachment, portraying with demented eloquence the splendors of a place just beyond our sight and dismissing the horrors of the real world as naught but a nightmare. Any intelligent creature within 50 feet of the liesinger attempts a DC 18 will save each round. Failure causes 2 points of wisdom damage but also provides 5 temporary hitpoints and grants a +2 morale bonus to all attack rolls and saving throws for 1 round. The liesinger and its thralls gain the benefits of its song (included in the statistics above) without the drawbacks.
<br />
<b>Cradle of Lies (Su)</b> A creature who fails three consecutive saves (intentionally or unintentionally) against the liesinger’s Madness Song suffers a break from reality, finding the liesinger’s fantasy world far more compelling. Such a creature fails all future saving throws against the madness song. It is treated as confused for as long as it hears the song, until its last ties to reality are severed (represented by its wisdom score being reduced to zero), at which point it becomes one of the liesinger’s thralls.
<br />
A liesinger is assumed to be accompanied by thralls with a total EL of at least 4 (making it at least an EL 7 encounter). If a liesinger is destroyed, its thralls remain highly agitated and hostile but are confused for 2d4 rounds.
<br />
<b>Hover (Ex)</b> The liesinger’s body partially suppresses conventional physics, allowing it to fly with a speed of 20, though it cannot move more than 5 feet from the ground. </p>
<p>All liesingers were once the citizens of a warped and beautiful dream, frolicking through the imagination of a twisted child-god. Eventually their god grew up and abandoned his dream, spilling his bewildered toys into the icy jaws of a rigid and unforgiving reality. Trapped on the material plane, rational angles and humorless physics biting and grinding its very flesh, a liesinger cavorts across the world’s wastelands in a bitter rapture of madness. Its merry troop of maniacal thralls follows behind, dancing and crying out their rebellion against reality. </p>
<p>A liesinger’s song dulls the bite of fire and ice, but its thralls may still drop dead of hunger or thirst without it understanding why. Liesingers know to avoid civilization, but they do send their loyalist minions away to lure in more. An errant thrall is a nervous and pitiful creature with a deeply atrophied capacity to cope with reality, desperate to complete his task that he might return to the song’s embrace. If separated permanently, such creatures may form strange and debased song-cults in their masters’ name.</p>
<p>Liesingers fight only when attacked, cheerily welcoming even armed parties to join their revel. Most are neither malicious nor innately violent, but above all else strive to add more revelers to their troop. They desperately believe that their fantastical world will become real once more if enough creatures are forced to believe in it.</p>Posting the stats I have now before I edit the life out of them. Gottay say, I have nothing but respect for the 16 who pulled this off in 72 hours.
I did manage to get it in under 700 words; lost some info that I might have otherwise included, but the result I think is a tighter and better-focused monster.
Liesinger CR 6
A vast, grinning mouth hovers eerily before you, lips pitch-black and bleeding and every fang a different color. It bobs merrily to and fro, filling the air with a strange...Nicolas Quimby2010-04-05T14:35:43ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerMatt Goodallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#632012-07-18T23:29:55Z2010-02-11T09:34:12Z<p>Hey Nicolas, I think you just missed out. Who can predict 2 mouth monsters? I do appreciate you putting up your ideas behind your monster. I know that you will keep putting your ideas out there. Who knows, by next year, you could be ineligible for RPG Super Star (because by then you might have your name on a hardcover.)
<br />
:-)
<br />
I wouldn't be surprised.</p>Hey Nicolas, I think you just missed out. Who can predict 2 mouth monsters? I do appreciate you putting up your ideas behind your monster. I know that you will keep putting your ideas out there. Who knows, by next year, you could be ineligible for RPG Super Star (because by then you might have your name on a hardcover.)
:-)
I wouldn't be surprised.Matt Goodall2010-02-11T09:34:12ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#622010-02-03T22:30:17Z2010-02-03T22:30:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><p>If it's any consolation, there will be the •whooomph• of goblin bombs exploding at a number of tables in coming months I think, to judge by the posts your item thread received... ;)
</p>
</blockquote><p>Also, before I forget, this made me smile.Charles Evans 25 wrote:If it's any consolation, there will be the *whooomph* of goblin bombs exploding at a number of tables in coming months I think, to judge by the posts your item thread received... ;)
Also, before I forget, this made me smile.Nicolas Quimby2010-02-03T22:30:17ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#612010-02-03T15:24:07Z2010-02-03T15:24:07Z<p>Here's the full-length feedback I started working on yesterday, arranged by who I'm replying to (and also topic, since many times several posters or judges raised the same issue). </p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>I AM going to stat up the liesinger, and probably tweak the description and writeup a lot, just as if I were doing an R3 entry on my own creature. For now, however, I think I am going to turn my attention to other writing projects, if only for the sake of conserving momentum.</p>Here's the full-length feedback I started working on yesterday, arranged by who I'm replying to (and also topic, since many times several posters or judges raised the same issue).
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
[Spoiler omitted]
I AM going to stat up the liesinger, and probably tweak the description and writeup a lot, just as if I were doing an R3 entry...Nicolas Quimby2010-02-03T15:24:07ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#602010-02-03T15:04:17Z2010-02-03T15:04:17Z<p>Thanks. :)
<br />
But I get the feeling that someone is going to have a lot of fun messing around with the brown urus, which wouldn't otherwise be there. </p>
<p>The other upside is that, believe it or not, the liesinger was a narrative concept springing from a cool mechanical idea, rather than the other way around. And if I had gone forward, might never have gotten to share the mechanical idea without looking like I was trying to one-up another contestant.</p>Thanks. :)
But I get the feeling that someone is going to have a lot of fun messing around with the brown urus, which wouldn't otherwise be there.
The other upside is that, believe it or not, the liesinger was a narrative concept springing from a cool mechanical idea, rather than the other way around. And if I had gone forward, might never have gotten to share the mechanical idea without looking like I was trying to one-up another contestant.Nicolas Quimby2010-02-03T15:04:17ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerLief Clennonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#592010-02-03T05:41:45Z2010-02-03T05:41:45Z<p>It's a damn shame you didn't advance, Nic. My decision on which monster to stat up would be a whole lot easier if you had. :)</p>It's a damn shame you didn't advance, Nic. My decision on which monster to stat up would be a whole lot easier if you had. :)Lief Clennon2010-02-03T05:41:45ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerCharles Evans 25https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#582010-02-03T00:39:49Z2010-02-03T00:39:49Z<p>Commiserations. I suspect you may have split such 'weird mouth monster' vote as there may have been with the Rictus and lost out that way. If it's any consolation, there will be the •whooomph• of goblin bombs exploding at a number of tables in coming months I think, to judge by the posts your item thread received... ;)</p>Commiserations. I suspect you may have split such 'weird mouth monster' vote as there may have been with the Rictus and lost out that way. If it's any consolation, there will be the *whooomph* of goblin bombs exploding at a number of tables in coming months I think, to judge by the posts your item thread received... ;)Charles Evans 252010-02-03T00:39:49ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerStarglimhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#572010-02-02T02:33:39Z2010-02-02T02:33:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Nicolas Quimby wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Also, "lie singer" was my placeholder name for the creature throughout creation. But during that process my editor started calling them "liesingers" (as in "<i>lice</i>-ing-ers"), and the sound of it grew on me. I was tempted to make it "lysinger" or somesuch but the judges and voters of the past have expressed a dislike for cutsie y-substitutions.
</p>
</blockquote><p>It's not so much that it's cute, but that I would have been baffled entirely as to what you meant. It was obscure enough when spelled conventionally.Nicolas Quimby wrote:Also, "lie singer" was my placeholder name for the creature throughout creation. But during that process my editor started calling them "liesingers" (as in "lice-ing-ers"), and the sound of it grew on me. I was tempted to make it "lysinger" or somesuch but the judges and voters of the past have expressed a dislike for cutsie y-substitutions.
It's not so much that it's cute, but that I would have been baffled entirely as to what you meant. It was obscure enough when...Starglim2010-02-02T02:33:38ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#562010-02-02T01:50:14Z2010-02-02T01:50:14Z<p>I'm running on little sleep now and will come back to post here tomorrow, but I will say that the "rarely violent unless provoked" bit was the line I most regretted.</p>
<p>I meant the word "violent" in only the literalest sense: its not that these creatures avoid confrontations, merely that they do not try to injure anyone except as a last resort. <i>They want to take you alive.</i></p>
<p>Was that obvious from the text? Only if you're Nic Quimby.</p>
<p>In my head there were easily a half dozen different ways this could act as an antagonist to the heroes, but I took those ways for granted (assuming that they were 'obvious' and giving them little thought), neglecting my duty as the author to SHOW the readers how and why my creation was relevant to their games. That was a total rookie mistake, and one I wouldn't repeat.</p>
<p>Also, "lie singer" was my placeholder name for the creature throughout creation. But during that process my editor started calling them "liesingers" (as in "<i>lice</i>-ing-ers"), and the sound of it grew on me. I was tempted to make it "lysinger" or somesuch but the judges and voters of the past have expressed a dislike for cutsie y-substitutions.</p>
<p>If anyone has any thoughts or questions, feel free to post. I'm quite happy to be able to respond to them directly now. And, as I've said countless times before, thank you all for your comments, your criticisms, your insights, your consideration and your votes.</p>I'm running on little sleep now and will come back to post here tomorrow, but I will say that the "rarely violent unless provoked" bit was the line I most regretted.
I meant the word "violent" in only the literalest sense: its not that these creatures avoid confrontations, merely that they do not try to injure anyone except as a last resort. They want to take you alive.
Was that obvious from the text? Only if you're Nic Quimby.
In my head there were easily a half dozen different ways this...Nicolas Quimby2010-02-02T01:50:14ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerKenneth.T.Colehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#552010-02-01T21:58:09Z2010-02-01T21:58:08Z<p>Wow this is really creepy, but also really weird. It is a bizzare monster that I might employ once in my campaign and never again. I think it's cool, but to me the monsters that win this contest should be something I can't wait to introduce to my campaign.</p>
<p>Good style though.</p>
<p>Ken</p>Wow this is really creepy, but also really weird. It is a bizzare monster that I might employ once in my campaign and never again. I think it's cool, but to me the monsters that win this contest should be something I can't wait to introduce to my campaign.
Good style though.
KenKenneth.T.Cole2010-02-01T21:58:08ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerFireHawkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#542010-02-01T21:24:15Z2010-02-01T21:24:15Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Beautiful prose, and well edited. Problem is that as a gm I cant grasp its abilities other than minions. Why use this creature and not a commanding bard? </span></p>Beautiful prose, and well edited. Problem is that as a gm I cant grasp its abilities other than minions. Why use this creature and not a commanding bard?FireHawk2010-02-01T21:24:15ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerCraig Johnstonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#532010-02-01T15:14:07Z2010-02-01T15:14:07Z<p>Writingwise I thought your descriptions were brilliant (although I'm not sure I really like the way the creature is picturing in my head).</p>
<p>As for the actaul Monster... I wasn't as impressed.</p>
<p>While I agree that I'd like to see how you'd go with more description heavy material, I'm not sure it's enough to put this into my Keep file.
<br />
Sorry and Good Luck. :)</p>Writingwise I thought your descriptions were brilliant (although I'm not sure I really like the way the creature is picturing in my head).
As for the actaul Monster... I wasn't as impressed.
While I agree that I'd like to see how you'd go with more description heavy material, I'm not sure it's enough to put this into my Keep file.
Sorry and Good Luck. :)Craig Johnston2010-02-01T15:14:07ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#522010-02-01T13:23:25Z2010-02-01T13:23:25Z<p>Thanks as always! :)</p>
<p>I <i>am</i> particularly interested in what people think of the form I chose for it, and have been paying close attention to those comments.</p>Thanks as always! :)
I am particularly interested in what people think of the form I chose for it, and have been paying close attention to those comments.Nicolas Quimby2010-02-01T13:23:25ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: LiesingerTobias Mullenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf3f&page=2?Liesinger#512010-02-01T10:29:43Z2010-02-01T10:29:43Z<p><b>Does it grab me visually:</b> Nice backstory for the creature! The visual on this one is very weird, especially with the different colored teeth. I love the idea of his slaves dancing around him and crying out against reality.</p>
<p><b>Would I use it in game:</b> Maybe. I would really have to work on describing this to my players without them all thinking of the Cheshire Cat. However, the pack of insane thralls behind it could help with that. I don’t know. I like what it does and where it comes from, but a floating mouth monster just doesn’t really do it for me. </p>
<p><b>Would my players enjoy an encounter with it:</b> They would love dealing with the thralls after killing the liesinger. I love that you make the slaves happy about learning the “truth.” It makes them much more fun to deal with.</p>Does it grab me visually: Nice backstory for the creature! The visual on this one is very weird, especially with the different colored teeth. I love the idea of his slaves dancing around him and crying out against reality.
Would I use it in game: Maybe. I would really have to work on describing this to my players without them all thinking of the Cheshire Cat. However, the pack of insane thralls behind it could help with that. I don’t know. I like what it does and where it comes from, but a...Tobias Mullen2010-02-01T10:29:43Z