paizo.com Recent Posts in Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttonypaizo.com Recent Posts in Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony2012-11-15T22:22:52Z2012-11-15T22:22:52ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyErik Randallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#582010-03-13T20:28:33Z2010-03-13T20:28:32Z<p>Here's the new version. Thanks for all the helpful comments!</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>Here's the new version. Thanks for all the helpful comments!
[Spoiler omitted]Erik Randall2010-03-13T20:28:32ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyErik Randallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#572010-03-10T01:53:40Z2010-03-10T01:53:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">gbonehead wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>Silliness aside, I'd make it non-vicious. It's more interesting, in my mind, having the PCs role-playing scrambling for food than yet another way to cause a PvP showdown.</p>
<p>Both ways take 'em out of the combat, but one will feel less like a railroading to the PCs.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Good point. I think the less vicious version probably makes more sense for the nakuru too, since its purpose is gluttony, not cannibalism. :)gbonehead wrote:Silliness aside, I'd make it non-vicious. It's more interesting, in my mind, having the PCs role-playing scrambling for food than yet another way to cause a PvP showdown.
Both ways take 'em out of the combat, but one will feel less like a railroading to the PCs.
Good point. I think the less vicious version probably makes more sense for the nakuru too, since its purpose is gluttony, not cannibalism. :)Erik Randall2010-03-10T01:53:39ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttonygboneheadhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#562010-03-09T17:40:40Z2010-03-09T17:40:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Erik Randall wrote:</div><blockquote>... I just need to decide if I want to make the hunger attack more or less viscous.</blockquote><p>I'm all for a viscous hunger attack.
<p>Perhaps it would involve jam or candy apples :)</p>
<p>•grin•</p>
<p>Silliness aside, I'd make it non-vicious. It's more interesting, in my mind, having the PCs role-playing scrambling for food than yet another way to cause a PvP showdown.</p>
<p>Both ways take 'em out of the combat, but one will feel less like a railroading to the PCs.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">DM of the Rings wrote:</div><blockquote><p>"You see tracks."
</p>
"I bet they're railroad tracks."
<br />
</blockquote><p>Erik Randall wrote:... I just need to decide if I want to make the hunger attack more or less viscous.
I'm all for a viscous hunger attack. Perhaps it would involve jam or candy apples :)
*grin*
Silliness aside, I'd make it non-vicious. It's more interesting, in my mind, having the PCs role-playing scrambling for food than yet another way to cause a PvP showdown.
Both ways take 'em out of the combat, but one will feel less like a railroading to the PCs.
DM of the Rings wrote:"You see...gbonehead2010-03-09T17:40:39ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyCharles Evans 25https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#552010-03-09T10:56:21Z2010-03-09T10:45:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Erik Randall wrote:</div><blockquote><p> ...or go the full cannibal route with:</p>
<p>"Attempts to eat the nearest living creature."</p>
<p>For the latter option, I'd change it to 1d4 rounds and note that the affected creature attempts to grapple and bite. The victim wants to eat <i>right now</i>, not after the meal is killed. (So no fighter attacking his party wizard with swords to cut up the meal first.) </blockquote><p>You may want to keep in mind the relative sizes of the magic crazed victim and their prospective meals, although it would be sort of creepy if (in a climate/location where there are lots of flies or insects) they start trying to grab any handy flies out of the air and eat those.
</p>
(Hmm, actually if you have ghouls around and rotting scraps, etc, you might actually have a lot of flies about anyway...)</p>Erik Randall wrote:...or go the full cannibal route with:
"Attempts to eat the nearest living creature."
For the latter option, I'd change it to 1d4 rounds and note that the affected creature attempts to grapple and bite. The victim wants to eat right now, not after the meal is killed. (So no fighter attacking his party wizard with swords to cut up the meal first.)
You may want to keep in mind the relative sizes of the magic crazed victim and their prospective meals, although it would be...Charles Evans 252010-03-09T10:45:32ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyErik Randallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#542010-03-09T01:48:11Z2010-03-09T01:48:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> You're a brave man to have gone ahead and posted a stat block you didn't need to do... :)
</p>
</blockquote><p>The way I see it, if I thought my monster was good enough for round two, it's good enough to stat up. And people on the boards are a friendly and knowledgeable group, so I know they'll have useful things to say. Like how I should have done a last math check before I posted. :)
<p>My new revision is almost done. I just need to decide if I want to make the hunger attack more or less viscous. My choices right now are:</p>
<p>"Attempts to eat visible food, or creatures if no food is visible."</p>
<p>or go the full cannibal route with:</p>
<p>"Attempts to eat the nearest living creature."</p>
<p>For the latter option, I'd change it to 1d4 rounds and note that the affected creature attempts to grapple and bite. The victim wants to eat <i>right now</i>, not after the meal is killed. (So no fighter attacking his party wizard with swords to cut up the meal first.)</p>Charles Evans 25 wrote:You're a brave man to have gone ahead and posted a stat block you didn't need to do... :)
The way I see it, if I thought my monster was good enough for round two, it's good enough to stat up. And people on the boards are a friendly and knowledgeable group, so I know they'll have useful things to say. Like how I should have done a last math check before I posted. :) My new revision is almost done. I just need to decide if I want to make the hunger attack more or less...Erik Randall2010-03-09T01:48:10ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyCharles Evans 25https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#532010-03-08T11:00:21Z2010-03-08T11:00:20Z<p>You're a brave man to have gone ahead and posted a stat block you didn't need to do... :)</p>You're a brave man to have gone ahead and posted a stat block you didn't need to do... :)Charles Evans 252010-03-08T11:00:20ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyErik Randallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#522010-03-08T01:41:48Z2010-03-08T01:41:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>First of all, even leaving out the general sin-fallen angel stuff from the end, you went over Round 3 word-count, so I assume this is not an attempt to represent the creature as a Superstar entry. </blockquote><p>Nope. I just wanted to stat it up. When I saw the round three rules, I was pretty sure this - as I envisioned it - wouldn't make it in under that word count.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Your BAB listed (+9) does not correspond to Hit Dice (8d10). Whilst your CMB/CMD seem to be based off the correct value of +8, your melee attack line seems to be based off the listed value of +9.
</p>
</blockquote><p>I played with it at both 8 and 9 HD at some point, looks like I missed fixing some stats.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>The correct hit point total for 8d10+24 should be 68 hp.</blockquote><p>And now I feel like an idiot. :) I can only guess that I was thinking about the number of HD instead of the die type itself when I did the math.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>You appear to have deviated from the usual good Reflex and Will saves to give good Fortitude and Reflex instead, although the Outsider information in the Bestiary does indicate there is some leeway as to which saves are good.</blockquote><p>Yup. I even noticed that the outsider type lists Reflex and Will, but in the monster creation section they say "any two." I gave it a better Fortitude save and immunity to poison to reflect a hearty constitution, since it eats a lot of things that could normally be bad.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><p>You appear to have used 8+Int skill points instead of the 6+Int skill points recommended by the bestiary.</p>
<p>The initiative value given (+6) does not correspond to the Dex modifier of +2.</blockquote><p>It started with Improved Initiative and I took that out. Clearly I missed that. Not sure how I got the 72 skill points though. That's a big mistake.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>With regard to the 'Create Ghoul' ability the closest corresponding ability I can find is that for a Shadow or Wight, which takes 1d4 rounds, and is not 'immediate'. The immediate poses questions of does the killed creature instantly turn around and start attacking former comrades (if any) in the same round? If so, does it get a move and standard action?</blockquote><p>I based this on the nabasu's Death-Stealing Gaze, which creates instant ghouls. I would have it act on its next initiative. It would probably start its action prone, as it would collapse when it died.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>Ravenous Hunger - so if a group of adventurers are trying to fight a Nakuru in a restaurant, anyone who succombs to the Ravenous Hunger needs to attempt another save just to eat any other food available in prefence over people?</blockquote><p>If a creature is closer than other food, then yes. My goal with the power was that the victims can no longer behave rationally, unless they make that additional Will save. But I see your point. I think maybe I should change it to be the first visible source of food, and then a creature if there is no other visible source of food. That might help get the CR down a little too.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>That seems to me more than just 'ravenous hunger'. Furthermore, if a fight is going on out in the open, where PCs are riding horses, apparently if used against the mounts this ability can turn those horses into raging carnivores? The ability name seems a misnomer to me, in other words.</blockquote><p>I'll fiddle around with some other names. Maybe Insane Hunger or Irrational Hunger?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Starvation Aura - the wording of this confuses me about how long this lasts. One possible way to read it suggests to me that once a character has encountered this aura once, the effects never leave that character, and that he/she has to make a save against it every day, whether it's suppressed or not.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Ah, I see where it's unclear. It's meant that as long as you're in the aura you're subject to the effect. But I wanted to make sure people couldn't just walk out and come back in to get a new save. But if they encounter the same nakuru's aura a day later they would get a new save.
<p>In hindsight, I should have just made the fatigue last until they'd been out of the aura for a set duration, and then give them a new save if they re-entered after that time.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Comparing this to the half-fiend minotaur (CR 6) from the bestiary, the Nakuru seems approximately at the same level (weaker attacks, but better AC, DR, and hit points) except for the Nakuru's Ravenous Hunger ability and the Starvation Aura. The former removes an opponent as a threat for 1d6 rounds if they fail a save (and possibly forces them to attack comrades) and with the unclear wording the Starvation Aura looks as if it might doom a PC to be fatigued for the rest of their life.
<br />
It's possible this should have been CR 7 or higher.</blockquote><p>I almost made it CR 7, but I wasn't quite sure. I originally envisioned it as CR 8 or 9 (still in the bottom half of the CR range as the round 2 rules suggested), but I thought I'd try for CR 6. Looks like I should have gone for CR 7.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charles Evans 25 wrote:</div><blockquote>Thank-you for posting it, however.</blockquote><p>Thank you for your thorough comments! I'm embarrassed by some of those pretty obvious mistakes. I should have done a final math check before I posted it. And I sure will in the future when I post monsters.
<p>Thanks again, Charles!</p>Charles Evans 25 wrote:First of all, even leaving out the general sin-fallen angel stuff from the end, you went over Round 3 word-count, so I assume this is not an attempt to represent the creature as a Superstar entry.
Nope. I just wanted to stat it up. When I saw the round three rules, I was pretty sure this - as I envisioned it - wouldn't make it in under that word count. Charles Evans 25 wrote:Your BAB listed (+9) does not correspond to Hit Dice (8d10). Whilst your CMB/CMD seem to be...Erik Randall2010-03-08T01:41:48ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Create a monster concept: Sin-Fallen Angel of GluttonyCharles Evans 25https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kf0t&page=2?SinFallen-Angel-of-Gluttony#512010-03-07T17:44:27Z2010-03-07T17:44:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Erik Randall wrote:</div><blockquote><p> OK. I finally put aside planning a new Pathfinder campaign long enough to stat this. It has a new name (which apparently is also the name of a city and district in Kenya, but I really like it...). It may be pushing into CR 7, and not the CR 6 I gave it.</p>
<p>That said, here it is:</p>
<p>•• spoiler omitted ••... </blockquote><p>First of all, even leaving out the general sin-fallen angel stuff from the end, you went over Round 3 word-count, so I assume this is not an attempt to represent the creature as a Superstar entry.
<p>Your BAB listed (+9) does not correspond to Hit Dice (8d10). Whilst your CMB/CMD seem to be based off the correct value of +8, your melee attack line seems to be based off the listed value of +9.
<br />
The correct hit point total for 8d10+24 should be 68 hp.
<br />
You appear to have deviated from the usual good Reflex and Will saves to give good Fortitude and Reflex instead, although the Outsider information in the Bestiary does indicate there is some leeway as to which saves are good.
<br />
You appear to have used 8+Int skill points instead of the 6+Int skill points recommended by the bestiary.
<br />
The initiative value given (+6) does not correspond to the Dex modifier of +2.
<br />
With regard to the 'Create Ghoul' ability the closest corresponding ability I can find is that for a Shadow or Wight, which takes 1d4 rounds, and is not 'immediate'. The immediate poses questions of does the killed creature instantly turn around and start attacking former comrades (if any) in the same round? If so, does it get a move and standard action?
<br />
Ravenous Hunger - so if a group of adventurers are trying to fight a Nakuru in a restaurant, anyone who succombs to the Ravenous Hunger needs to attempt another save just to eat any other food available in prefence over people? That seems to me more than just 'ravenous hunger'. Furthermore, if a fight is going on out in the open, where PCs are riding horses, apparently if used against the mounts this ability can turn those horses into raging carnivores? The ability name seems a misnomer to me, in other words.
<br />
Starvation Aura - the wording of this confuses me about how long this lasts. One possible way to read it suggests to me that once a character has encountered this aura once, the effects <i>never</i> leave that character, and that he/she has to make a save against it every day, whether it's suppressed or not. </p>
<p>Comparing this to the half-fiend minotaur (CR 6) from the bestiary, the Nakuru seems approximately at the same level (weaker attacks, but better AC, DR, and hit points) except for the Nakuru's Ravenous Hunger ability and the Starvation Aura. The former removes an opponent as a threat for 1d6 rounds if they fail a save (and possibly forces them to attack comrades) and with the unclear wording the Starvation Aura looks as if it might doom a PC to be fatigued for the rest of their life.
<br />
It's possible this should have been CR 7 or higher. </p>
<p>Thank-you for posting it, however.</p>Erik Randall wrote:OK. I finally put aside planning a new Pathfinder campaign long enough to stat this. It has a new name (which apparently is also the name of a city and district in Kenya, but I really like it...). It may be pushing into CR 7, and not the CR 6 I gave it.
That said, here it is:
** spoiler omitted **...
First of all, even leaving out the general sin-fallen angel stuff from the end, you went over Round 3 word-count, so I assume this is not an attempt to represent the...Charles Evans 252010-03-07T17:44:26Z