Monk build help


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I'm in need of some help retuning a 7th level monk. Looking for a primarily monk build. Prcs designed for continued advancement as a monk are ok, but please dont tell me to take 19 levels in another class. We play in the Forgotten Realms setting so pretty much anything from those books is legit. I had initially planned to go into the monk of the enabled hand prc from Dragon Compendium but my DM just nerfed that.

Current race is Aasimar but would be open to something relatively close, such as human. Gith is a no go, as is the Vow of Poverty feat. Would prefer non-evil race but if you've got a great idea and it's dependent on a usually evil race throe it up for me. Other than that at this point I basically have carte blanche here as long as the material is from FR.


goartak wrote:
.... monk of the enabled hand prc from Dragon Compendium but my DM just nerfed that.....

Now I am curious. I will be back with info for the class/build


Humans work, because, well, they always work.

Aasimar - I'm not sure. Even if you don't get a disadvantage for playing a non-standard race, the stuff you get over a human are not par to what the human gets. It's not crippling, though, so if this is for flavour reasons, go ahead.

Dwarf can work, too. You're not quite as fast as other monks, but the race lends itself quite well to class: Wis and Con are really helpful, and Cha is actually the only stat a monk doesn't really need.

As for the rest: What are the framework conditions? How are ability scores generated?

Monks need more ability scores than any other class: They need strength, dexterity, constitution and wisdom - and if you want to be good at combat manoeuvres (which, at least for me, is a huge part of the monk's concept), you might need a bit of intelligence, too, because the Greater [Combat Manoeuvre] feats aren't on your bonus feat list so you need the prerequisites - which, for disarm and trip (two of my favourites) is combat expertise and int 13.

Liberty's Edge

As mentioned, Aasimar is not an optimal choice, but it certainly works, so if thats what you want by all means go ahead.

As for additional help, well...

See, these boards tend to go off and get all flustered and frustrated with a certain class. People come in and say 'this class sucks, it can't do anything useful'. Other people counter with their personal experiences, which get ignored, people get huffy, 5-6 threads start running, etc.

Then one of the very few actually intelligent people sit down and figure out how to make the class work. And when they do, the results have always been surprising.

So far, it's happened for Bards, Rangers, Druids, and Monks. I'm hoping barbarians are next; the class as a whole works, but their rage powers need an in-depth examination.

Here's the collected guides for all those classes:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab

In summary, you are a frontline melee warrior, so do what frontline melee warriors do - Str first, then con, then wis, then dex. keep Int non-negative, and screw cha. Take and use Power Attack as much as you can. Use a weapon until 8th-10th level, but don't invest any feats into it.


I just remembered Treantmonk's monk guide, but BobChuck beat me to it.


KaeYoss wrote:

Humans work, because, well, they always work.

Aasimar - I'm not sure. Even if you don't get a disadvantage for playing a non-standard race, the stuff you get over a human are not par to what the human gets. It's not crippling, though, so if this is for flavour reasons, go ahead.

I was doing this more for flair and rp reasons than to build a munchkin character. I realize the cha bonus doesn't do much but it does let me drop it to a 7(9 with racial) to get -4 points on the build. Darkvision is also handy.

KaeYoss wrote:

As for the rest: What are the framework conditions? How are ability scores generated?

Monks need more ability scores than any other class: They need strength, dexterity, constitution and wisdom - and if you want to be good at combat manoeuvres (which, at least for me, is a huge part of the monk's concept), you might need a bit of intelligence, too, because the Greater [Combat Manoeuvre] feats aren't on your bonus feat list so you need the prerequisites - which, for disarm and trip (two of my favourites) is combat expertise and int 13.

Sorry I can't believe I didn't give more detail on this. OK, characters and core rules are Pathfinder. Setting however is Forgotten Realms. The DM loves the setting. Ability scores are the 25 point buy from the PF book. Our fighter is a trip build so I guess for this character I'm gonna stay away from that one but disarm is always fun. I would like to have some battlefield control ability and alot of mobility to take advantage of the increased speed. Already have monk robe and will focus on unarmed.

As far as a note on the campaign we have been magically "abducted" by the god of magic to thwart an evil scheme which opened a rift to the lower planes bringing in lots of demons. They tend to hit hard and accurately. I'm pretty sure the DMs dice are weighted ;)


wraithstrike wrote:
I just remembered Treantmonk's monk guide, but BobChuck beat me to it.

The Treantmonk guides are great, sure, but even the Monk guide can't polymorph this turkey.


cercanon wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I just remembered Treantmonk's monk guide, but BobChuck beat me to it.
The Treantmonk guides are great, sure, but even the Monk guide can't polymorph this turkey.

I don't care much for monks myself, and the official loss of improved natural attack does not help at all. However the OP wanted to play a monk so I was going to lead him to the best source I could find.

Liberty's Edge

One thing you should ask your DM for permission for is to ignore the "int" and "expertise" requirement on the various "greater" combat maneuver feats.

IF you can get that, and follow the guide, you'll be perfectly competitive.

Shadow Lodge

The monk is still a fun class to play, as long as you go in knowing what you are getting into. Built right they can be excellent CMB machines, obviously you could do that with a fighter but the monks offer up some flavor to it. And they are better off now than in 3.5 we can all agree on that. But im a hopeless monk addict, so maybe im more willing to put up with the class than others :) Im hoping they get some love in the APG, I think they have potential to be the best CMB builds with some feat love, and can catch up on the damage curve, but not outclass a fighter, with a few simple tweaks to monk weapons, either wraps useable in flurry, or allowing monks to use their unarmed damage with a monk special weapon.


If you are already allowed to take slightly advanced races like Aasimar I wonder if you can convince your GM to go with Hobgoblin. Dex and Con boosts and a +4 to Stealth makes up for some of the weaknesses of the class.

The Monk is a mediocre class for a ton of reasons (BAB sucks for a frontline fighter, Flurry of Blows in incompatible with high mobility tactics because it's a full-attack action, Stunning Fist is extremely use limited, CMB/CMD is hampered by not being full BAB, MAD like crazy). It's got an interesting flavor but it's been a challenging (and frankly subpar) class since 1e. Is it a frontline fighter? Is it a striker?

The bonuses it gets (good feats and saves) make it primarily useful as a dip class unfortunately.

Shadow Lodge

vuron wrote:

BAB sucks for a frontline fighter/ CMB/CMD is hampered by not being full BAB

All are valid points, but monks essentially DO get full BAB for CMB as a class feature at level 3, its based off their monk level instead of BAB. And if you do get in full attacks, your BAB for FoB is based off your monk level, essentially giving you full BAB (with the -2 penalty as per TWF with light weapons). Minor points, and certainly dont negate the other points you made, however. The monk can be fun if you know what your getting into, and understand that you are playing one of the weaker base classes optimization wise. I think its a fun class to play, so that might be why I stick up for them so much. Monks need some love, let them be the CMB masters, let them have a niche already! :)


Kabump wrote:
vuron wrote:

BAB sucks for a frontline fighter/ CMB/CMD is hampered by not being full BAB

All are valid points, but monks essentially DO get full BAB for CMB as a class feature at level 3, its based off their monk level instead of BAB. And if you do get in full attacks, your BAB for FoB is based off your monk level, essentially giving you full BAB (with the -2 penalty as per TWF with light weapons). Minor points, and certainly dont negate the other points you made, however. The monk can be fun if you know what your getting into, and understand that you are playing one of the weaker base classes optimization wise. I think its a fun class to play, so that might be why I stick up for them so much. Monks need some love, let them be the CMB masters, let them have a niche already! :)

True, the Monk Level = CMB at 3rd level, which helps some but a grapple monk is a sketchy tactic unless you are the designated mage-harasser. Full BAB melee brutes and big creatures are difficult to grapple with and maneuvers are risky even if you have the improved versions.

Honestly I really wish they had done something like the following to the monk.

1) Give Monks full BAB.
2) Drop Flurry of Blows entirely.
3) Give Monks Two Weapon Fighting (For dual fisted Kung-fu action)
4) Maneuver training no longer necessary.

That might make the Monk too strong vis-a-vis the Fighter (Monk Saves are great, Higher Skill Points than Fighter) so you'd probably have to tone down some of the abilities some (probably decrease unarmed damage progression a little) but it would make the monk a good all-around class.

Shadow Lodge

vuron wrote:

1) Give Monks full BAB.

3) Give Monks Two Weapon Fighting (For dual fisted Kung-fu action)

That is how Flurry of Blows work now.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
vuron wrote:

1) Give Monks full BAB.

3) Give Monks Two Weapon Fighting (For dual fisted Kung-fu action)

That is how Flurry of Blows work now.

Obviously, however other things are influenced by BAB.

CMB/CMD (Monk has Maneuver Training and an odd bonus to CMD currently)
Non-flurry attacks (after all not every attack run is a full-attack run)
Feat access (If Monks had full BAB they could get feats like lunge, greater grapple, spring attack, etc earlier).

This would allow monks to use their speed to their advantage periodically (such as using a high movement spring attack) instead if being stuck doing 5' steps. For the most part monks would still be doing the standard full attack beat down but they would be tactically more interesting.


I currently play a Monk 6/Fighter 2/Sun Soul Monk 4.
Sun Soul Monk can be found in the Waterdeep book. In as nutshell
Daylight as a SLA
Low light vision eventually Darkvision
Flaming fists>flaming burst>Brilliant energy
Scorching ray as a SLA
Fire Shield as a SLA
Sunbeam as a SLA

Stacks with Monk for Unarmed damage, FoB, AC bonus, and speed boost

Liberty's Edge

The OP just wanted a build of a monk, not how much they suck/rock.

To the OP:

Here is a 25 buy I made based of treantmonk's guide. If I remember right, Aasimar are +2 WIS and CHA? This one works towards greater disarm (why I listed level 9, as that is the first time it is available). Deadly aim is great with shurikens thrown with flurry of blows.

STR:17 (13) +1 at 4
DEX:14 (5)
CON:13 (3) +1 at 8
INT:13 (3)
WIS:16 (5)
CHA:9 (-4)

1:Power Attack
1 Bonus:Improved Grapple
2 Bonus:Dodge
3:Combat Reflexes
5:Combat Expertise
Bonus 6:Improved Disarm
7:Deadly Aim
9:Greater Disarm

** If you want to go for mobility instead, That is an option for a bonus feat at 6


wraithstrike wrote:

I don't care much for monks myself, and the official loss of improved natural attack does not help at all. However the OP wanted to play a monk so I was going to lead him to the best source I could find.

I totally agree, and my comment wasn't meant as a criticism of you. Regardless what anyone thinks about any class, if you have fun playing a class it doesn't matter much or little DPR they do.

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