Custom Skeletal Champion questions


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am attempting to create a skeletal champion wizard/necromancer PC for play with a 15th-level group, but I had some questions:

1) How many wizard levels should I give her (along with her 2 undead HD) to put it on par with the other non-monster 15th-level characters?

2) The character used to be a human wizard before being transformed against her will by an evil cult. Does she keep her bonus feat and skill?

3) Which comes first? The undead HD or the wizard levels? It might make a difference when maxing out the first level hit points.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

If she was a wizard at first level she would keep that HD. HD from class levels are unchanged by being a skeleton.


Maybe 11 levels, and a yes on the Bonus feat.

For the skills I would only add the +1 bonus for the HD she was human (for example, she was 6th level before the change, would have +6 skill points.)

the Wizard HD would probably come first, since the change happened after she had learned magic and wahtnot.

This all assumes that she was a wizard before the change. If she was just some unfortunate that was abducted and transformed by a cult THEN decided to become a wizard, then there wouldnt be any bonus feat OR skill points, since her adventuring career started after she became undead.

Out of sheer curiosity, why a Skeleton Champion and not a Lich?
there are Good lich variants out there, if alignment is the problem.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Goblich wrote:

Maybe 11 levels, and a yes on the Bonus feat.

For the skills I would only add the +1 bonus for the HD she was human (for example, she was 6th level before the change, would have +6 skill points.)

the Wizard HD would probably come first, since the change happened after she had learned magic and wahtnot.

This all assumes that she was a wizard before the change. If she was just some unfortunate that was abducted and transformed by a cult THEN decided to become a wizard, then there wouldnt be any bonus feat OR skill points, since her adventuring career started after she became undead.

Out of sheer curiosity, why a Skeleton Champion and not a Lich?
there are Good lich variants out there, if alignment is the problem.

11 class level seems FAR too low to me.

Also, I want to know how you would do this per RAW, disregarding the character background. If you were to create an Xth-level wizard skeletal champion for your game, how would you go about it while following RAW as close as possible?


11 class level seems FAR too low to me.

I only said 11 levels because of the two that the skeletal champion gets, which would boost you to 13 HD. on top of that, you have Natural Armor, DR, Cold Immunity, Turn Resistance, and a +2 to Str and Dex. However, I reread the Stat Block, and 12 levels of wizard might be a better choice, since you only add 1 to the base creatures CR. that would make you 14 HD, plus all of the other abilities.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

The CR (+2 I believe based on the example originally being a CR 1/3) adjustment takes those abilities into account. That's what a CR adjustment is for.

Remember a 10th level Wizard does not equal a CR 10. A CR 10 is an encounter that should drain 20% of a party of 4's resources. (Remembering this not reading it from somewhere)

If you want her to be any kind of challenge for a 15th level party she should have 15 levels of Wizard and the skeletal champion template. That would be a CR 15.

When you plan for the encounter keep in mind that undead of terribly low Fortitude saves and so if there's a Sorcerer or Wizard in the party with Disintegrate they might make short work of her.

He is probably avoiding making her a Lich because that implies she was created by a rather powerful cult. They also carry with them an aura of BBEG.


Treat the skeletal champion as CR 1 (skeleton's CR+1) then use the rules to advance a creature using the rules on page 296-297 in the bestiary. Since the skeletal champion is not associated with spellcasting the first 2 levels of caster increase the CR by one. After that additional class levels increase the CR by 1. So a skeletal champion wizard 14 would be CR 14 creature.

A 15th level human wizard is considered CR 14 so I would suggest a 14th level skeletal champion would be about equal to a 15th level character. At lower levels the skeletal champion would probably be more powerful than same level characters due to all the undead traits but at that level it's less clear.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:

The CR (+2 I believe based on the example originally being a CR 1/3) adjustment takes those abilities into account. That's what a CR adjustment is for.

Remember a 10th level Wizard does not equal a CR 10. A CR 10 is an encounter that should drain 20% of a party of 4's resources. (Remembering this not reading it from somewhere)

If you want her to be any kind of challenge for a 15th level party she should have 15 levels of Wizard and the skeletal champion template. That would be a CR 15.

The goal is for the character to be a member of a party, not for it to be a challenge for the party.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Oops, yeah I totally missed that.

Perhaps you should build her level by level and then apply the template when she would have acquired it which should bump her ECL up. Then give the rest of the levels to get to 15.

Skeletal Champion is more of a template then it is a pre-existing creature you would level up like a stone giant. After all you use her pre-existing stats, skills, and what not bits.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Dennis da Ogre wrote:

Treat the skeletal champion as CR 1 (skeleton's CR+1) then use the rules to advance a creature using the rules on page 296-297 in the bestiary. Since the skeletal champion is not associated with spellcasting the first 2 levels of caster increase the CR by one. After that additional class levels increase the CR by 1. So a skeletal champion wizard 14 would be CR 14 creature.

A 15th level human wizard is considered CR 14 so I would suggest a 14th level skeletal champion would be about equal to a 15th level character. At lower levels the skeletal champion would probably be more powerful than same level characters due to all the undead traits but at that level it's less clear.

I missed that section in the Bestiary. Thanks a lot!
Scipion del Ferro wrote:

Perhaps you should build her level by level and then apply the template when she would have acquired it which should bump her ECL up. Then give the rest of the levels to get to 15.

Skeletal Champion is more of a template then it is a pre-existing creature you would level up like a stone giant. After all you use her pre-existing stats, skills, and what not bits.

From the way I read it, it appeared to me that you would have to start from class level 1 again after acquiring the template.


Ok hi guys,

not directly directed at the necromancer skeletal champion...
I am going to play a skeletal champion synthesist summoner, using the eidolon shell to hide my undead apprearance (not the aura). I know thats not really possible RAW, cause the eidolon looks tranlucent and "fantastic", but my gm liked the idea of summonig the living shell that he allowed it :D

Now to my main concerns. Theres a couple of questions that arise:
1. do i keep my undead immunities while in fused form?
2. what happens to my hp and fort saves cause i suddenly have a con score?
3. does the eidolon shell get con hp or cha hp? (probably con)
4. should i go for skill monkey or melee ripper/tank?

What do you think guys?


Dr van Boom wrote:

Ok hi guys,

not directly directed at the necromancer skeletal champion...
I am going to play a skeletal champion synthesist summoner, using the eidolon shell to hide my undead apprearance (not the aura). I know thats not really possible RAW, cause the eidolon looks tranlucent and "fantastic", but my gm liked the idea of summonig the living shell that he allowed it :D

Now to my main concerns. Theres a couple of questions that arise:
1. do i keep my undead immunities while in fused form?
2. what happens to my hp and fort saves cause i suddenly have a con score?
3. does the eidolon shell get con hp or cha hp? (probably con)
4. should i go for skill monkey or melee ripper/tank?

What do you think guys?

Remember, for your appearance issue, translucent != transparent. Transparent is see through. Translucent is somewhere between transparent and opaque. It could be darn near transparent, or almost totally opaque.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

1 Yes, you keep all of your immunities. Nothing overrides that.
2 This is certainly a gray area. Best to ask your GM.
3 This is certainly a gray area. Best to ask your GM.
4 Melee ripper/tank.


Dr van Boom wrote:


1. do i keep my undead immunities while in fused form?
2. what happens to my hp and fort saves cause i suddenly have a con score?
3. does the eidolon shell get con hp or cha hp? (probably con)
4. should i go for skill monkey or melee ripper/tank?

1. Your type doesn't change, so yes.

2.The Hp/Fort from Cha comes from the undead type and not directly from the nonability(although it is the same trait), so this wouldn't change. I also wouldn't be sure that you even get a Con score, since the Type Trait could very well override the Eidolons Con for you, but that seems like a DM call to me (I would lean to nonability)

3. Con (Edit: The Eidolon is still an Outsider, so there is absolutely no reason why it should get cha to Hp)

4. Your choice, but there is not much stopping you from doing it both, especially if you took half elf (with the favored class bonus) or human(free skillpoints/feat) as base for the Skeletal Champion.

Edit: Remember that you can't get healed, like at all, while fused, since both positive and negative energie harm you (undead/outsider, whichever is worse). And you can also be turned etc.


Ludwig Dierks wrote:
Edit: Remember that you can't get healed, like at all, while fused, since both positive and negative energie harm you (undead/outsider, whichever is worse). And you can also be turned etc.

Undead synthesist summoner probably could get Undead Appearance evolution from UM for his eidolon to be healed by negative energy.

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