Class Abilities as talents


3.5/d20/OGL


So the purpose is a proposed project that essentially breaks down the classes and turns class features into talents along the lines of d20 modern/SWSE. However it is a low magic setting so Cleric, Druid (Minus companion), Sorcerer and wizard are not art of this experiment. I essentially want it so that you could build a barbarian or monk for the most part, but through generic class base of talents and feats. I'm also adding in converted d20 M/SWSE talents aswell but for now I want to focus on the core classes. My question or thought is How do we balance them? Rage 1/day per talent so that at 3rd you could have 2x a day and on? Flurry of blows talent at lv 1 if you take unarmed combat? etc.

Also has anyone attempted this already and have pointers or notes to share?


Stewart Perkins wrote:

So the purpose is a proposed project that essentially breaks down the classes and turns class features into talents along the lines of d20 modern/SWSE. However it is a low magic setting so Cleric, Druid (Minus companion), Sorcerer and wizard are not art of this experiment. I essentially want it so that you could build a barbarian or monk for the most part, but through generic class base of talents and feats. I'm also adding in converted d20 M/SWSE talents aswell but for now I want to focus on the core classes. My question or thought is How do we balance them? Rage 1/day per talent so that at 3rd you could have 2x a day and on? Flurry of blows talent at lv 1 if you take unarmed combat? etc.

Also has anyone attempted this already and have pointers or notes to share?

I tried going this way once (after expecting 4th ed to go that path, which turned out to be quite different), and very early on realized that I had a lot of issue balancing the classes with lots of class features (such as the monk) with classes with fewer features (like the fighter). I also wasn't too sure what to do with features that scale with levels, such as the sneak attack ability. To be honest, I quickly abandoned the project for something else.

I'm still not sure what would be the best approach. It's a daunting project indeed!


Laurefindel wrote:
Stewart Perkins wrote:

So the purpose is a proposed project that essentially breaks down the classes and turns class features into talents along the lines of d20 modern/SWSE. However it is a low magic setting so Cleric, Druid (Minus companion), Sorcerer and wizard are not art of this experiment. I essentially want it so that you could build a barbarian or monk for the most part, but through generic class base of talents and feats. I'm also adding in converted d20 M/SWSE talents aswell but for now I want to focus on the core classes. My question or thought is How do we balance them? Rage 1/day per talent so that at 3rd you could have 2x a day and on? Flurry of blows talent at lv 1 if you take unarmed combat? etc.

Also has anyone attempted this already and have pointers or notes to share?

I tried going this way once (after expecting 4th ed to go that path, which turned out to be quite different), and very early on realized that I had a lot of issue balancing the classes with lots of class features (such as the monk) with classes with fewer features (like the fighter). I also wasn't too sure what to do with features that scale with levels, such as the sneak attack ability. To be honest, I quickly abandoned the project for something else.

I'm still not sure what would be the best approach. It's a daunting project indeed!

Lessee here:

1 - A lot of people react pretty negatively to this sort of thing, so you have to be prepared for that sort of feedback with a project like this. There's just some ideas that will enrage some gamers because they're a little bit different from the game they've been playing for the past few decades. Unfortunately, it can be hard to separate the knee-jerk reactions from actual critical feedback which can be just as harsh, but accurate.

2 - Character power options are pretty tough (practically impossible) to do within the framework of 3.x games because the abilities are wildly unbalanced.

3 - If you're working within an existing system, ability cost will need to balance with all the other junk already floating around out there. Talent trees are a decent idea, but there's a lot of eye-balling cost involved with that and you may just end up recreating the class options of another system.


Well let's see, I agree its daunting but in the end balance isn't a massive issue if a few things are way better. Mostly if something is overpowered I can fix it and my players will be ok with it. Also they reacted positively to the idea so no problems here, especially as alot of them are new enough that wierd ideas are just cool to them. Im getting a few players inputs aswell so we'll see what everyone says :P

Dark Archive

You mean like this?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm


Stewart Perkins wrote:
Well let's see, I agree its daunting but in the end balance isn't a massive issue if a few things are way better. Mostly if something is overpowered I can fix it and my players will be ok with it. Also they reacted positively to the idea so no problems here, especially as alot of them are new enough that wierd ideas are just cool to them. Im getting a few players inputs aswell so we'll see what everyone says :P

Yes, those generic classes David mentioned are a good place to start.

Didn't mean to come across as poopoo as my last post read. Stuff like that is just tough to work with is all. It can be really rewarding for players though.


the David wrote:

You mean like this?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm

Yes I was planning on using those, or rather the Unearthed Arcana books use of them.... which I believe is the same. Regardless thans for the link that is helpful when the books not right in front of me :)

The balance issues I'm looking at are how to work in ALL of the non caster class abilities. Although I think in the end its easier than I think and will work out when I do it.

@Laddie: It's cool, I didn't really take it as anything and I agree it seems daunting but I want to do it, and now have a co-pilot on board as it were in my fellow DM from our group :P

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