|
This weekend my new cleric character cast Enlarge Person for the first time, and I'm not sure I'm seeing the net benefit of the spell -- wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what our group figured out:
+2 STR bonus means +1 to attack rolls with melee weapons, but there's a -1 penalty for size, so no net change to attack rolls with melee weapons, and actually a -1 penalty to attack rolls with projectile weapons.
Granted, the +2 STR bonus means a +1 bonus to damage rolls, and melee weapons do more damage due to increased size. For example, my enlarged greataxe does 3d6.
-2 DEX penalty effectively means a -1 penalty to AC, combined with the -1 penalty due to size means a -2 net penalty to AC.
10' reach.
It seemed to us that the only thing that the spell really accomplished during this particular battle was making my character easier to hit, and a more attractive target. Thus, we renamed it the "Decoy" spell.
Are there other implications of Enlarge Person that we're missing here?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Are there other implications of Enlarge Person that we're missing here?
Nope, you've pretty much nailed it. A fighter with a ton of hit points with Enlarge Person cast on him "draws the fire" of the bad guys, allowing other characters to perform better. Additionally, a fighter's already-decent melee damage increases rather substantially. Add reach to this and you've got quite the melee monster stomping around the battlefield.
Not bad for a 1st-level spell.
you seem to be concentrating on the combat implications of the spell only.
Enlarge person is a very suefull spell when you need to carry an extremely large bag of heavy loot out of the dungeon. It increases your STR by 2 and it also doubles your caryying capacity for beign large.
there is a door that needs to be broken down, try casting it on the STR based character and let him kick the door in.
The implications arent really rthat bad for combat, if you were to cat it on a barbarian, and they raged, they would get an effective +6 to their STR. granted less AC, but on the flip side, they are now dealing more damage, and their weapon now rocks.
|
|
Are there other implications of Enlarge Person that we're missing here?Nope, you've pretty much nailed it. A fighter with a ton of hit points with Enlarge Person cast on him "draws the fire" of the bad guys, allowing other characters to perform better. Additionally, a fighter's already-decent melee damage increases rather substantially. Add reach to this and you've got quite the melee monster stomping around the battlefield.
Not bad for a 1st-level spell.
Got it. So I just have to know whom to cast it on to maximize its effectiveness.
One thing I did miss, which I learned after the fact: it gives me a +4 to Intimidate skill checks.
On top of all that, Large characters are both more effective at combat maneuvers & can perform size-limited maneuvers on additional foes.
Also, the larger character and commensurately larger weapon are more difficult to sunder/disarm than normal.
For Sunder I agree with you - the weapon gains more hp.
For Disarm, not too much - there are not penalties (for example) for a Tiny creature trying to Disarm a Huge Cloud Giant (except the differences between CMB and CMD).
Please remember that becoming Large, the character gains only a +1 to his CMD, and the +1 to Str balances with the -1 to Dex.
However, becoming Large HAS other benefits regarding Combat Maneuvers:
Bull Rush: Small creatures cannot Bull Rush a Large creature
Overrun: Small creatures cannot Overrun a Large creature
Trip: Small creatures cannot Trip a Large creature
GRAB ABILITY: Large creatures cannot use their Grab ability against Large creatures (there are VERY FEW exceptions), so if you are currently grappled with a creature in this way, you break free* (note: this can be debatable, but please read below) - the beast has to Grapple you with standard methods (and usually they do not have the Improved Grapple Feat, so they generate AoO and the damage they inflict is based on Unarmed Strike by size and not by Natural Attack).
*The Grab ability text says:
"Unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. (...) each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."
If you are suddenly Enlarged while Grappled with the Grab ability, they cannot use the Grab ability anymore, and so they cannot deal damage with their Natural Attack, and it's reasonable to assume that they also cannot keep the hold on you - this is sure if they were holding you with the -20 to CMB (and not being considered Grappled thamselves), and reasonable if they were conducting the Grapple normally with their Natural Attack.
Constrict, however, will always work if held in a Grapple.
EDIT: and of course, offensively speaking, as Sean FitzSimon said above, you can use Bull Rush, Overrun and Trip on more opponents.
+2 STR bonus means +1 to attack rolls with melee weapons, but there's a -1 penalty for size, so no net change to attack rolls with melee weapons, and actually a -1 penalty to attack rolls with projectile weapons.
Granted, the +2 STR bonus means a +1 bonus to damage rolls, and melee weapons do more damage due to increased size. For example, my enlarged greataxe does 3d6.
-2 DEX penalty effectively means a -1 penalty to AC, combined with the -1 penalty due to size means a -2 net penalty to AC.
10' reach.
The +2 bonus to Strength is a size bonus. It stacks with enhancement bonuses (typically from items) and morale bonuses (barbarian rage and the rage spell). If your primary combat stat is Strength, any enhancements to this stat will help you out significantly. Yes, there is a size penalty to AC and +hit. However, the benefits of stacking Strength are still significant. You get 1.5x multipliers on damage from your Strength modifier, but they round down on odd numbers -- pushing a modifier to an even number from an odd number is a significant damage increase.
The weapon damage increase from increased size is also massive for melee weapons. You mentioned a greataxe going from 1d12 (6.5) to 3d6 (10.5). That's around 60% more damage from the weapon. Especially with the big damage two-handed weapons (greatsword, greataxe), that's a huge bonus. Let's assume you have 20 Str and a greataxe. Your melee damage is typically 1d12 + 7 (13.5). With the enlarge person spell, your damage output is 3d6 + 9 (19.5) -- it has increased by over 40%. Comparatively, if you were to enter a barbarian's rage instead, you'd do 1d12 + 10 (16.5) -- around a 20% increase. For much of the earlier game, you're typically getting twice more benefit having enlarge person cast on you compared to a barbarian raging. This changes later on, but initially it's a fantastic spell. . . not to mention this actually *stacks* with barbarian's rage.
Reach is also a gigantic strategic advantage in many fights, especially since you do not suffer the penalties of using a reach weapon. You can freely melee those adjacent to you (1 square away) and those 2 squares away. You also get some cover advantages (see the cover section of the rules). You're very likely to take an Attack of Opportunity when a monster is moving through your threatened squares. Yes, you could use a longspear instead of an enlarged greataxe -- but you're missing out on big damage differences with the weapons.
But you're absolutely right about the AC loss. You don't benefit much from enlarge person if you're going to take significantly more hits and die. Most DMs use a threat system of sorts that puts emphasis on a larger threat -- using a system like that typically means an enlarged person is an enlarged threat. It's not always an appropriate spell to use in every combat situation, but if damage output is more important than AC (typically it is, since offense is easier than defense), it's the spell every barbarian with a greatsword dreams of.
Well said!
You gain a net increase in CMD, and CMB, you gain reach, and you get an increased damage die step and strength bonus.
Your AC goes down by 2 (if you are a sword and board full plate "cant hit me" character, this spell is not for you).
If you are strength based there is a next 0 effect to your 'to hit'. If you are dex based, again this is not a spell for you.
A strength based character especially one that uses combat manuevers gains alot from enlarge person, and that is who the spell is for.
|
|
You gain a net increase in CMD, and CMB, you gain reach, and you get an increased damage die step and strength bonus.
Your AC goes down by 2 (if you are a sword and board full plate "cant hit me" character, this spell is not for you).
If you are strength based there is a next 0 effect to your 'to hit'. If you are dex based, again this is not a spell for you.
A strength based character especially one that uses combat manuevers gains alot from enlarge person, and that is who the spell is for.
I think this right here sums up why the spell did not work so well for me -- I'm a cleric, and my highest physical stat is DEX. So casting it on myself in a combat situation was really more of a liability than an asset. But for the right subject, it could be quite effective.
In the future, I'll probably use this much like I use the other spells in my arsenal -- to buff others.
You gain a net increase in CMD, and CMB, you gain reach, and you get an increased damage die step and strength bonus.
Your AC goes down by 2 (if you are a sword and board full plate "cant hit me" character, this spell is not for you).
If you are strength based there is a next 0 effect to your 'to hit'. If you are dex based, again this is not a spell for you.
A strength based character especially one that uses combat manuevers gains alot from enlarge person, and that is who the spell is for.
I think this right here sums up why the spell did not work so well for me -- I'm a cleric, and my highest physical stat is DEX. So casting it on myself in a combat situation was really more of a liability than an asset. But for the right subject, it could be quite effective.
In the future, I'll probably use this much like I use the other spells in my arsenal -- to buff others.
Use it on the big tough guy in the party. For yourself you are better off with divine favor, or bless.
Monk/cleric with a reach weapon + combat reflexes :) That was a fun combo.
An enlarged barbarian with a greatsword and great cleave, if completely surrounded two deep could conceivable attack 24 opponents at the same time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As the original poster should see by now, if there's one problem with Enlarge Person, then that it's actually a little bit too useful. Especially with the usually humungous dungeons that are an artifact of battle grids, being permanently enlarged appears to be a viable option at higher levels.
Being larger-than-life in the literal sense is a bit too silly for my tastes. Higher level fighters running around, no, strike that, flying around, enlarged and invisible is the borderline between epic fantasy and bad superheroics for me.
Just my two groats.
I'm not sure if I missed it in all the replies above, but being larger allows you to threaten more area. Not only is your reach greater, but you also take up more space, so it allows for better battlefield control. I loved this spell in 3.5 when I was playing a cleric of a War god. I was always out fighting the Fighters in my group, once I had a chance to buff myself. I haven't had a chance to see it in action in Pathfinder to know how much things have changed.
An enlarged barbarian with a greatsword and great cleave, if completely surrounded two deep could conceivable attack 24 opponents at the same time.
Let's hope they aren't rogues, 2nd rank armed with reach weapons :)
In my opinion Enlarge Person is a bit too good for it's level still, if it had been converted to a 2nd lvl spell back in 3.0 nobody really would be bothered by it still, especially the reach is HUGE, battlefield control in difficult terrain areas is awesome ish.
A few drawbacks still apparent is the loss of 2 AC - 1 reflex, initiative and dex skill and ability checks, and you can easily be flanked by multiple opponents in a bad situation.
In my opinion Enlarge Person is a bit too good for it's level still, if it had been converted to a 2nd lvl spell back in 3.0 nobody really would be bothered by it still, especially the reach is HUGE, battlefield control in difficult terrain areas is awesome ish.
A few drawbacks still apparent is the loss of 2 AC - 1 reflex, initiative and dex skill and ability checks, and you can easily be flanked by multiple opponents in a bad situation.
If it became a second level spell it would go the way of ray of enfeeblement in PFRPG, still an ok spell but not your first, second or even third choice IE you might have it on a wand, but you arent learning it as a sorc, and rarely preping it as a wizard.
If it became a second level spell it would go the way of ray of enfeeblement in PFRPG, still an ok spell but not your first, second or even third choice IE you might have it on a wand, but you arent learning it as a sorc, and rarely preping it as a wizard.In my opinion Enlarge Person is a bit too good for it's level still, if it had been converted to a 2nd lvl spell back in 3.0 nobody really would be bothered by it still, especially the reach is HUGE, battlefield control in difficult terrain areas is awesome ish.
A few drawbacks still apparent is the loss of 2 AC - 1 reflex, initiative and dex skill and ability checks, and you can easily be flanked by multiple opponents in a bad situation.
If it was a 2nd level spell, I would expect it to give the normal modifieres for size adjustments, raher than just +2 str.
One slight RP detail to mention. According to the spell, your weight increases by x8. If you happen to be a 300 lb warforged, make sure you are not on the second floor of a rickety building because, viola! you now literally weigh a ton!
Just thought I would mention it.
If it was a 2nd level spell, I would expect it to give the normal modifieres for size adjustments, raher than just +2 str.
I disagree, if it gave the stat bumps you get from taking a creature from medium to large, it would not be a second level spell, maybe a 3rd or 4th even.
One slight RP detail to mention. According to the spell, your weight increases by x8. If you happen to be a 300 lb warforged, make sure you are not on the second floor of a rickety building because, viola! you now literally weigh a ton!
Just thought I would mention it.
Not quite that extreme but i had a rather heavy fighter mage (was 240lb normally) blissfully remember that Enlarge person was dismissable when the winged dragon borne had to carry him off a collapsing platform because he was out of flys.
Not quite that extreme but i had a rather heavy fighter mage (was 240lb normally) blissfully remember that Enlarge person was dismissable when the winged dragon borne had to carry him off a collapsing platform because he was out of flys.One slight RP detail to mention. According to the spell, your weight increases by x8. If you happen to be a 300 lb warforged, make sure you are not on the second floor of a rickety building because, viola! you now literally weigh a ton!
Just thought I would mention it.
LOL,
I had, in a champions game, a group of 5 superheroes in a plane. Plain old Boeing 747. The pilot was taking off from an icy frozen over lake when he lost control for a round. Three of the people in the plane had either density increase or growth, and all of them used it. So the plane suddenly gained over 10 TONS of weight, all on the same side. Needless to say, the pilot, who had just regained control, lost it as the plane slammed over on it's side into the lake and hit the bottom.Did I mention one of the idiots who changed his weight took damage from cold? :)
LOL,
I had, in a champions game, a group of 5 superheroes in a plane. Plain old Boeing 747. The pilot was taking off from an icy frozen over lake when he lost control for a round. Three of the people in the plane had either density increase or growth, and all of them used it. So the plane suddenly gained over 10 TONS of weight, all on the same side. Needless to say, the pilot, who had just regained control, lost it as the plane slammed over on it's side into the lake and hit the bottom.Did I mention one of the idiots who changed his weight took damage from cold? :)
Ladies and gentlement, thank you for riding with Pelta Airlines. We are about to begin our 5 hour journed to New Orleans. Will all passengers make sure they seat backs and tray tables are in their upright and locked positions, and would the 15ft tall stonelike gentlemen in row 5 please move to the center of the plane....Thank you.
One slight RP detail to mention. According to the spell, your weight increases by x8. If you happen to be a 300 lb warforged, make sure you are not on the second floor of a rickety building because, viola! you now literally weigh a ton!
Just thought I would mention it.
I have never taken that into account. My players will be thanking you, well not really, but I do and that is all that matters.
The more I think about it the more I feel that Enlarge Person might be borderline overpowered for a 1st level spell. Let's sum up the advantages.
1)+2 to str, -1 to hit, for a STR based melee fighter they cancel each other out. A first level, say, Barbarian starting with 20 Str (18 points +2 for race) will rage for a 24 str, giving him +7 to hit and +10 to damage. The +2 str will bump him up to 26 and +12 to damage.
2)Size change in weapon damage. A character wielding a Bastard Sword goes from 1d10 (5.5 ave) to 2d8 (9 ave) for an average damage increase of 3.5. Even a greatsword goes from 2d6 (ave 7) to 3d6 (ave 10.5).
3)Drawing fire. Bigger target means drawing fire, which means allowing casters to cast undistracted and rogues to set up flanks unmolested.
4)10" reach. When coupled with something like greater bull rush and/or shield slam and your commensurate size bonus to your CMB you'll be sliding people around the battlefield and getting free attacks in through your party members.
5)Minutes per level. Combat rarely lasts 10 rounds, at least in my experience, so this cast from a wand is perfectly acceptable.
Yeah. It's pretty amazing for a first level spell.
The more I think about it the more I feel that Enlarge Person might be borderline overpowered for a 1st level spell. Let's sum up the advantages.
1)+2 to str, -1 to hit, for a STR based melee fighter they cancel each other out. A first level, say, Barbarian starting with 20 Str (18 points +2 for race) will rage for a 24 str, giving him +7 to hit and +10 to damage. The +2 str will bump him up to 26 and +12 to damage.
2)Size change in weapon damage. A character wielding a Bastard Sword goes from 1d10 (5.5 ave) to 2d8 (9 ave) for an average damage increase of 3.5. Even a greatsword goes from 2d6 (ave 7) to 3d6 (ave 10.5).
3)Drawing fire. Bigger target means drawing fire, which means allowing casters to cast undistracted and rogues to set up flanks unmolested.
4)10" reach. When coupled with something like greater bull rush and/or shield slam and your commensurate size bonus to your CMB you'll be sliding people around the battlefield and getting free attacks in through your party members.
5)Minutes per level. Combat rarely lasts 10 rounds, at least in my experience, so this cast from a wand is perfectly acceptable.
Yeah. It's pretty amazing for a first level spell.
It has strong advantages with not insignificant drawbacks. But most importantly, it normally doesnt benefit the mage himself, it benefits someone else (most of the time). Or it takes alot of effort for it to be useful to the mage. I think buff spells should be 'stronger' then other kinds of spells because it gives incentives for casters to spread the wealth.
For instance, haste is probably the hands down best 3rd level spell. If it only gave an extra attack on a full attack it would probably still be a good 3rd level spell. But again its not out of balance because for the most part, the people that benefit most from the spell are not the casters.
Not quite that extreme but i had a rather heavy fighter mage (was 240lb normally) blissfully remember that Enlarge person was dismissable when the winged dragon borne had to carry him off a collapsing platform because he was out of flys.One slight RP detail to mention. According to the spell, your weight increases by x8. If you happen to be a 300 lb warforged, make sure you are not on the second floor of a rickety building because, viola! you now literally weigh a ton!
Just thought I would mention it.
LOL,
I had, in a champions game, a group of 5 superheroes in a plane. Plain old Boeing 747. The pilot was taking off from an icy frozen over lake when he lost control for a round. Three of the people in the plane had either density increase or growth, and all of them used it. So the plane suddenly gained over 10 TONS of weight, all on the same side. Needless to say, the pilot, who had just regained control, lost it as the plane slammed over on it's side into the lake and hit the bottom.Did I mention one of the idiots who changed his weight took damage from cold? :)
This sounds like it belongs in the players do stupid things thread
It has strong advantages with not insignificant drawbacks. But most importantly, it normally doesnt benefit the mage himself, it benefits someone else (most of the time). Or it takes alot of effort for it to be useful to the mage. I think buff spells should be 'stronger' then other kinds of spells because it gives incentives for casters to spread the wealth.For instance, haste is probably the hands down best 3rd level spell. If it only gave an extra attack on a full attack it would probably still be a good 3rd level spell. But again its not out of balance because for the most part, the people that benefit most from the spell are not the casters.
I would say that the caster does benefit from not being attacked, from combat being over quicker and more efficiently. Let's say we have a party of 1st level adventurers. Let's say combat lasts 5 rounds, the wizard goes first and enlarges the front line fighter. His str goes from 16 to 18 (4 dmg to 6 dmg with his 2h weapon) and his weapon damage goes from 1d10 to 2d8. Net increase in damage of 5.5 damage. Let's further posit that the fighter hits 75% of the time. The wizard is responsible for about 20 points of damage through the use of that one first level spell. Likely more due to AoO and whatnot. What else could that wizard do to help combat more?
I think you're absolutely right about haste, it's at least the best combat buff spell at 3rd level and possibly the strongest combat buff spell for its level in the game. I think Enlarge Person is up there as well, relative to a first level spell. Playing a wizard as a buffer, debuffer, and combat tactician has its distinct advantages and Enlarge Person plays into that style.
It's great for fighting anything that's large. Your reach equals that of the giant, troll, or whatever that you're up against, and you can go toe-to-toe instead of getting whacked for trying to close.
Don't forget that you can be a total bastard casting Enlarge Person offensively!
Anyone on a mount that is only one size larger must dismount if they become larger, which is even better with flying mounts.
Cast it on someone who needs to go through 5' hallways or make balance checks.
Make someone 8X heavier when they are on the rickety bridge/boat/wagon/etc.
Cast it on anyone dex based, especially if they are trying to stealth around.
Makes archers much worse (arrows no longer deal damage as the size of the weapon that fired them)
Can be used on ogres, trolls, cyclopes, and all giants. (oh no, I'm thinking reduce person would be better in this case)
|
Don't forget that you can be a total bastard casting Enlarge Person offensively!
Anyone on a mount that is only one size larger must dismount if they become larger, which is even better with flying mounts.
Cast it on someone who needs to go through 5' hallways or make balance checks.
Make someone 8X heavier when they are on the rickety bridge/boat/wagon/etc.
Cast it on anyone dex based, especially if they are trying to stealth around.
Makes archers much worse (arrows no longer deal damage as the size of the weapon that fired them)
Can be used on ogres, trolls, cyclopes, and all giants. (oh no, I'm thinking reduce person would be better in this case)
I do not believe this is correct, as far as I know "Enlarge Person" and "Reduce Person" are limited to normal humanoids and not monstrous ones. Although this could be another thing that changed from 3.5 to 3.P.
I do not believe this is correct, as far as I know "Enlarge Person" and "Reduce Person" are limited to normal humanoids and not monstrous ones. Although this could be another thing that changed from 3.5 to 3.P.Don't forget that you can be a total bastard casting Enlarge Person offensively!
Anyone on a mount that is only one size larger must dismount if they become larger, which is even better with flying mounts.
Cast it on someone who needs to go through 5' hallways or make balance checks.
Make someone 8X heavier when they are on the rickety bridge/boat/wagon/etc.
Cast it on anyone dex based, especially if they are trying to stealth around.
Makes archers much worse (arrows no longer deal damage as the size of the weapon that fired them)
Can be used on ogres, trolls, cyclopes, and all giants. (oh no, I'm thinking reduce person would be better in this case)
Giants are Humanoid (Giant) now. I'm not sure where trolls are, too lazy to look it up.
Enlarged creatures take up 4 spaces, don't they? That means a surrounded two deep fighter with great cleave could get 32 attacks. Great googily moogily.
|
|
Giants are Humanoid (Giant) now. I'm not sure where trolls are, too lazy to look it up.I do not believe this is correct, as far as I know "Enlarge Person" and "Reduce Person" are limited to normal humanoids and not monstrous ones. Although this could be another thing that changed from 3.5 to 3.P.Don't forget that you can be a total bastard casting Enlarge Person offensively!
Anyone on a mount that is only one size larger must dismount if they become larger, which is even better with flying mounts.
Cast it on someone who needs to go through 5' hallways or make balance checks.
Make someone 8X heavier when they are on the rickety bridge/boat/wagon/etc.
Cast it on anyone dex based, especially if they are trying to stealth around.
Makes archers much worse (arrows no longer deal damage as the size of the weapon that fired them)
Can be used on ogres, trolls, cyclopes, and all giants. (oh no, I'm thinking reduce person would be better in this case)
Trolls are also Huminoid(giant). I'm just as lazy but I built a bookshelf right beside the couch so I don't hav to get up for my gmebooks. :P
Enlarge Person has been a great buff for quite some time. It has some drawbacks that make it not necessarily awesomesauce 100% of the time.
Powering up the Fighter is extremely useful but it can be argued that color spray, grease or sleep can all end fights even more effectively for the low level mage.
Further instead of a standard action casting time it's got a 1 round casting time which means that either the mage needs to prebuff the fighter or at least one round is being wasted.
It's a good spell but I don't think it's necessarily in the web, glitterdust, hideous laughter class of spells. It's definitely a great spell to be incorporated into a wand though.
Keep in mind that while enlarge person can be a very powerful spell in the hands of the PCs it can be really nasty in the hands of a giant spell caster. Huge fire giants or Gargantuan Cloud Giants can be incredibly powerful for a pretty minimal investment.
Enlarge Person has been a great buff for quite some time. It has some drawbacks that make it not necessarily awesomesauce 100% of the time.
Powering up the Fighter is extremely useful but it can be argued that color spray, grease or sleep can all end fights even more effectively for the low level mage.
Further instead of a standard action casting time it's got a 1 round casting time which means that either the mage needs to prebuff the fighter or at least one round is being wasted.
It's a good spell but I don't think it's necessarily in the web, glitterdust, hideous laughter class of spells. It's definitely a great spell to be incorporated into a wand though.
Keep in mind that while enlarge person can be a very powerful spell in the hands of the PCs it can be really nasty in the hands of a giant spell caster. Huge fire giants or Gargantuan Cloud Giants can be incredibly powerful for a pretty minimal investment.
Someone mentioned earlier that becoming larger allows more enemies to flank you, but it also allows you to create more flanking opportunities with allies (not against the same opponent, but against multiple opponents). This spell was very handy for my spiked-chain-wielding fighter once in a party that involved two characters with at least a few rogue levels each (and that was before the lunge feat came into existence with PF).
i don't think it needs to be sustained, does it? it just has a duration of 1 min/level.
Quick question: can a wizard/barbarian cast enlarge person on itself and then enter a rage while maintaining the spell?
Enlarge person has normal duration so it will last until duration goes out or the spell is dismissed/disrupted. No amount of intellectual activity is required from the caster once it is in effect so yes, caster barbarian can use enlarge person on oneself and then enter rage in the same way as he can rage while benefiting from bull's strength, mage armor or shield.
This weekend my new cleric character cast Enlarge Person for the first time, and I'm not sure I'm seeing the net benefit of the spell -- wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what our group figured out:
+2 STR bonus means +1 to attack rolls with melee weapons, but there's a -1 penalty for size, so no net change to attack rolls with melee weapons, and actually a -1 penalty to attack rolls with projectile weapons.
Granted, the +2 STR bonus means a +1 bonus to damage rolls, and melee weapons do more damage due to increased size. For example, my enlarged greataxe does 3d6.
-2 DEX penalty effectively means a -1 penalty to AC, combined with the -1 penalty due to size means a -2 net penalty to AC.
10' reach.
It seemed to us that the only thing that the spell really accomplished during this particular battle was making my character easier to hit, and a more attractive target. Thus, we renamed it the "Decoy" spell.
Are there other implications of Enlarge Person that we're missing here?
It makes your average humanoid a 10 ft. creature, which in turn provides the entire party behind him soft cover (the fighter now uses 4 spaces). The fighter's reach now increased to 10ft., which allows him to dominate the battlefield, as just getting to him provokes attacks. If your fighter wields a reach weapon (such as a glaive), then your fighter's reach extends to 20 feet (4 squares of reach in every direction), turning him into a walking Area of Effect assault machine. If he has Combat Reflexes, he's a monster.
Enlarging him results in a net -2 to AC (-1 size, -1 Dex), but increases the size of his weapons and gear appropriately. Thus a glaive (1d10) becomes a 2d8 weapon. The +2 Strength modifier can push damage even higher. The size increase also provides a net +2 CMB, and +1 CMD (due to size), and makes you immune to a lot of bad things based on size (trample, swallow hole, etc).
It is arguably one of the strongest buffs in the game, especially for its level. Reduce person is also amazing for certain types of builds (reduce person is IMHO very attractive for archers).
Just as an example, let's look at a 1st level orc with a glaive + enlarge person potion.
Orc
Str 17, Dex 10, Con 11
Hp: 5 (1d10)
AC: 17 (+7 armor) (splint mail)
Melee: glaive +4 (1d10+4) (9.5 DPH)
Reach: 10 ft.
After potion
Str 19, Dex 8, Con 13
Hp: 6 (1d10+1)
AC: 15 (+7 armor, -1 dex, -1 size)
Melee: glaive +4 (2d8+6) (15 DPH)
Reach: 20 ft.
Pssst, Ashiel, it zombie-thread awakened by Woundwort. You're answering the question asked over two years ago...
If you're using Defense as DR from the alternate rules in Ultimate Combat, a Large-sized creature ignores that DR when calculating damage for creatures sized Medium or smaller.
If I missed somebody else already sharing this info, I apologize for the repeat.
|
|
If your fighter is wearing heavy armour he might not be getting all of his Dex on his AC anyway.
As I've been going on about elsewhere, a druid with an oversized club (-2 to hit, wielded 2-handed) with shillelagh and enlarge person is doing 4d6 basic damage. Vital Strike (at 9th level for a druid) turns this into 8d6 damage.
Richard