Concentration Checks & Spell-like / Supernatural Abilities


Rules Questions


I was curious as to whether spell-like and supernatural abilities are subject to concentration checks. For example, does a paladin trying to perform a Lay on Hands (su) while on a galloping ship or a bard trying to use his Suggesion (sp) on a violently rocking ship need to make concentration checks?

If they do need to make concentration checks, then how does one determine what the equivalent level of the spell is for purposes of calculating the concentration DC?

Thanks!
Jason


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Thats a good question. Never really seen it come up in play though.

I'm pretty sure that supernatural abilities would not need concentration checks. They can't be disrupted in combat, so being injured while trying to do one clearly does not require a concentration check. That being the case, I don't see how trying to use one on a bouncy wagon or on a storm-tossed ship would be any different. You'd think that being sliced open with a great axe would be more of an impediment to using the ability than would being caught in a net.

Spell like abilities can be disrupted, and the user of a SLA can 'cast defensively' to prevent an AoO. Since injury can specifically require a concentration check when using an SLA, I'd think that the other factors requiring concentration checks would apply as well. Plus theres this line on p. 221 "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."

Most Spell Like abilities are identical or very similar to an existing spell, so use the existing spell as the base spell level for determing the DC when making a concentration check. If an ability doesn't match an existing spell, you can do some math to find the general spell level. Almost always, the DC of a spell like ability is 10 + the level of the spell + the users's Cha modifier. So working backwards you can subtract 10 and subtract the user's Cha mod to determine the spell level.

This rule doesn't always apply, most specifically with class related SLA's such as those from the Wizard specializations or cleric domains, which often work off of the primaty ability of the class. For example, the Charm domain's Charming Smile SLA which has a DC of 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Wisdom modifier. For these types of SLAs, when they don't match an existing spell, it looks as if the spell level would be similar to spells gained at the same level as when the SLA is gained. For instance, all the first level SLAs gained from cleric domains would be first level spells. All the ones gained at 8th level would likely be 4th lvl spells unless something suggests otherwise.

For some SLAs it may just not be quite clear, so it would be up to the GM to make a judgement call. For instance, the Charming Smile SLA of the Charm domain acts similar to the 1st lvl spell Charm Person but its also a swift action, suggesting possibly a 5th lvl spell (quickened Charm Person would be 5th). But also its duration isn't anywhere near as long, so that would justify considering it to be a 4th lvl spell--which would be in line with the cleric getting it at 8th lvl.

Caster level for SLAs, if not given, are the creature's HD, or in the case of class related SLAs the character's class level. Unless otherwise stated, the relevenat ability modifier for caster level checks would be Charisma.

Example: An Ogre Mage attempts to use its Cone of Cold SLA against the PCs. However hes in the area of an Acid Fog that was cast by the PC wizard a couple rounds back. On the wizard's last turn the Ogre Mage took 8 pts of acid damage. Since this is continual damage the Ogre Mage will need to make a concentration check with a DC of 19 (10 + 5 for spell level + 4 for half the continuous damage). The Ogre Mage will role a Concentration check of d20 + 12 (+9 for the given caster level + 3 for Charisma mod).


Thanks Father Dale!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Concentration checks = 1d20 + caster level + primary casting stat.

What is the primary casting stat for a spell-like ability? Caster level is always listed with spell-like abilities, but not the casing stat.

If the creature were also a spellcaster, I'd just use the caster's primary casting stat (after all, it doesn't make sense to have two different concentration modifiers.), but what if said creature (let's use Aasimar as an example) is a fighter rather than a caster. How do we determine its Concentration check modifier for its daylight spell-like ability?


For Sp and Su abilities, the stat is almost always Charisma.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Arakhor wrote:
For Sp and Su abilities, the stat is almost always Charisma.

So an Aasimar cleric would have two different Concentration check modifiers? How do you rationalize that? Shouldn't it use a single modifier (probably whichever is highest)?


The same way an Aasimar Cleric/Wizard has two different check modifiers, I would imagine, though it's up to you, of course.

Liberty's Edge

Arakhor wrote:
For Sp and Su abilities, the stat is almost always Charisma.

I am trying to squash a spell like ability/concentration check debate in my game. The above is very handy to note I just have 1 question.

Where can I find, or is it written in a rule book or errata, that states the above. If it is not stated in a rule book or errata how can I easily determine what the stat modifier is for a creature's concentration check.


From combat section:

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

The DC for almost all special abilities is equal to 10 + 1/2 the creature's Hit Dice + a relevant ability modifier (usually Constitution or Charisma depending on the ability).


Holy Necro, Batman!


Here's a thread I haven't seen in four years. :)

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