The Inquisilich


Round 3: Alchemist and Inquisitor


An Inquisitor can cast spells. To become a Lich, one must cast spells and have a caster level of at least 11 (with a few other prereqs that aren't pertinent to the issue at hand). Does this mean that a level 11 Inquisitor of an evil god could feasibly become a lich?


Alex Root wrote:
An Inquisitor can cast spells. To become a Lich, one must cast spells and have a caster level of at least 11 (with a few other prereqs that aren't pertinent to the issue at hand). Does this mean that a level 11 Inquisitor of an evil god could feasibly become a lich?

can you become a Lich if you cast divine spells?


Eric Stipe wrote:
Alex Root wrote:
An Inquisitor can cast spells. To become a Lich, one must cast spells and have a caster level of at least 11 (with a few other prereqs that aren't pertinent to the issue at hand). Does this mean that a level 11 Inquisitor of an evil god could feasibly become a lich?
can you become a Lich if you cast divine spells.

I believe so, but I may be wrong. I remember it was possible in 3.5, and the Pathfinder rules dont say that you can't, but like I said, I could still be wrong.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

An inquisitor is to divine spellcasting as bards are to arcane, and I know bards can become liches, so why not?

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

An inquisitor could become a lich... which is sort of a scary concept.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Shadow Lodge

Oh, that is a really cool idea! I now have a new villian for a futer pbp...

>:)

Dark Archive

all hail the inquisitor lich(es?)


This just made me realize that bards can become liches as well. I'm off to make a lich with ranks in Perform (Dance).

Shadow Lodge

Don't forget a lich Adept, or a Witch Lich. I think druids can even become liches...


Ellington wrote:
This just made me realize that bards can become liches as well. I'm off to make a lich with ranks in Perform (Dance).

Splendid! =) Methinks such a character will appear in my campaign, also .... ludicrous and creepy at the same time .... ;)


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

An inquisitor could become a lich... which is sort of a scary concept.

It can be a really twisted story idea….

A man who took on the "curse" of being a lich to protect his religion.... forever.

Becoming his church's "secret weapon" the one they let out of the catacombs when needed… when he is not needed, he would be one of the greatest sages of his church, they would seek him out for advice, to interpret doctrine.

Over the years he would lose touch with his humanity, only having the strictest interpretations of his faith affording him any semblance of sanity.

In the end, this would influence his church, radicalizing it ever so slowly.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Don't forget a lich Adept, or a Witch Lich. I think druids can even become liches...

Even rangers and (theoretically) paladins can be come liches. Although the act of becoming a lich would cause a paladin to fall, and there's obviously a question in there about whether the falling happens before the actual lichdom and so on. ANY class that can cast spells and achieve a caster level of 11 can become a lich.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ellington wrote:
This just made me realize that bards can become liches as well. I'm off to make a lich with ranks in Perform (Dance).

Just remember that bard liches have a special name, fabuliches!


This thread makes me want to write up a Summoner lich...


Zurai wrote:
Even rangers and (theoretically) paladins can be come liches. Although the act of becoming a lich would cause a paladin to fall, and there's obviously a question in there about whether the falling happens before the actual lichdom and so on. ANY class that can cast spells and achieve a caster level of 11 can become a lich.

Only by an exact reading of the 3rd Edition template. In 2nd Edition, there was a strict list of requirements needed, including the construction of the phylactery, the deadly poison needed to kill the would-be lich and so on. I personally go for Spell Focus: Necromancy, Craft Wondrous Item, Brew Potion and the ability to cast 6th-level arcane or divine necromantic spells.


Arakhor wrote:
Zurai wrote:
Even rangers and (theoretically) paladins can be come liches. Although the act of becoming a lich would cause a paladin to fall, and there's obviously a question in there about whether the falling happens before the actual lichdom and so on. ANY class that can cast spells and achieve a caster level of 11 can become a lich.
Only by an exact reading of the 3rd Edition template. In 2nd Edition, there was a strict list of requirements needed, including the construction of the phylactery, the deadly poison needed to kill the would-be lich and so on. I personally go for Spell Focus: Necromancy, Craft Wondrous Item, Brew Potion and the ability to cast 6th-level arcane or divine necromantic spells.

Well, considering we're talking about Pathfinder, which is two editions removed from AD&D, I think my statement was fair. It should also be noted that rangers and paladins could not become liches in 3.5, at least pre-epic, because they couldn't get a high enough caster level (their CL was 1/2 class level, so max 10).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I didn't expect the undead inquisition!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Mmm. Adept of Bones Lich.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I didn't expect the undead inquisition!

Nobody expects an undead inquisition!

Now where is the comfy chair?

Shadow Lodge

In 2E (and I think 1E also), it did mention that Cleric Liches existed, just not common. Divine Liches, and Undead in general are particularly nasty as "boss" monsters, though less so in PF, I think.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

According to the pathfinder rules, a Lich needs the Craft Wondrous Item feat and lots of money in addition to caster level 11.
The fact that an Inquisitor gets evasion at level 11 does not make that idea any less frightening, neither do the huge bonuses liches get. Channel resistance +4, DR 15/Magic and Bludgeoning, immunity to cold and electricity, undead immunities, +8 racial bonus on perception, stealth and sense motive - this is really a match made in hell.

(Just for starters, a CR 12 enemy with stealth +22 (+Dex) at maxed out ranks, silence spell and a negative energy touch attack is really SCARY. You don´t see it, you don´t hear it, you get drained and nobody hears you scream... Hold Monster and Greater Invisibility add to it nicely.)

Stefan


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber
Ellington wrote:
This just made me realize that bards can become liches as well. I'm off to make a lich with ranks in Perform (Dance).

Shake those bones ! :-)

Well, if you ever wanted an enemy playing those haunting tunes on the castle organ, now you can. That reminds me of that adventure, Totentanz, several years back in Dungeon. (Issue 90 from 2002)

Stefan

Shadow Lodge

Stebehil wrote:
Ellington wrote:
This just made me realize that bards can become liches as well. I'm off to make a lich with ranks in Perform (Dance).

Shake those bones ! :-)

Stefan

Or use them as a portable xylophone!

Shadow Lodge

Stebehil wrote:

According to the pathfinder rules, a Lich needs the Craft Wondrous Item feat and lots of money in addition to caster level 11.

The fact that an Inquisitor gets evasion at level 11 does not make that idea any less frightening, neither do the huge bonuses liches get. Channel resistance +4, DR 15/Magic and Bludgeoning, immunity to cold and electricity, undead immunities, +8 racial bonus on perception, stealth and sense motive - this is really a match made in hell.

(Just for starters, a CR 12 enemy with stealth +22 (+Dex) at maxed out ranks, silence spell and a negative energy touch attack is really SCARY. You don´t see it, you don´t hear it, you get drained and nobody hears you scream... Hold Monster and Greater Invisibility add to it nicely.)

Stefan

Not sure if this is still true in PF, but in 3E, they also needed half of a year of straight working on the Phylactery once they had the prereqs. PF did add a new prereq. that the individual must study the exact process for themelves, (it is unique to each person) that didn't really exist in 3E specifically. So it is basically a DM must specifically allow it situation.


Nunspa wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

An inquisitor could become a lich... which is sort of a scary concept.

It can be a really twisted story idea….

A man who took on the "curse" of being a lich to protect his religion.... forever.

Becoming his church's "secret weapon" the one they let out of the catacombs when needed… when he is not needed, he would be one of the greatest sages of his church, they would seek him out for advice, to interpret doctrine.

Over the years he would lose touch with his humanity, only having the strictest interpretations of his faith affording him any semblance of sanity.

In the end, this would influence his church, radicalizing it ever so slowly.

You really need to read Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman.

Shadow Lodge

Not all undead are evil. In 3E there were the Deathless (good undead), or at least positive energy undead. I think the the PF Bestiary mention nonevil Mummies, too.


There was specific mention of bard "arch-liches (good aligned liches)" in the Forgotten Realms. The Baneliches were also fairly nasty in FR as well, and those guys were all cleric liches.


Beckett wrote:
Not all undead are evil. In 3E there were the Deathless (good undead), or at least positive energy undead. I think the the PF Bestiary mention nonevil Mummies, too.

While I don't mind the rare good undead here and there, please, please lets not ever go the "deathless" route in Pathfinder. That was some torturous logic that went into those guys.

Shadow Lodge

Agreed. I liked the concept, but all the stuff with Positive/Negative Energy was annoying, and rediculous at times.


KnightErrantJR wrote:
Beckett wrote:
Not all undead are evil. In 3E there were the Deathless (good undead), or at least positive energy undead. I think the the PF Bestiary mention nonevil Mummies, too.
While I don't mind the rare good undead here and there, please, please lets not ever go the "deathless" route in Pathfinder. That was some torturous logic that went into those guys.

Though Nunspa's idea of a secret sect of Inquisitor's headed by or using a lich is really cool. Kinda reminds me of the Dustmen from Planescape, though he wouldn't be an inquisitor.

Shadow Lodge

Actually the concept itself is awesome. Expecially for a Extremely lawful and Conservative cults.
Imagine a cult with some really old Liches as leaders ... thousands of years old and with a incredible hatred for all things new...
A cult so Immovable that his leaders attain lichedom instead of just "passing the torch" is Creepy indeed ... and very cool.


While the InquisiLich is an interesting and scary idea...

The Bardic Lich is not a new (though exceedingly rare) idea. I forget the character's name, but there was a Bard-Lich in Ravenloft somewhere.

Hmm...too bad I don't have those books anymore or I'd look it up.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Kakarasa wrote:
Nunspa wrote:

Over the years he would lose touch with his humanity, only having the strictest interpretations of his faith affording him any semblance of sanity.

In the end, this would influence his church, radicalizing it ever so slowly.

You really need to read Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman.

Soooooo good! :D

Grand Lodge

Nunspa wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

An inquisitor could become a lich... which is sort of a scary concept.

It can be a really twisted story idea….

A man who took on the "curse" of being a lich to protect his religion.... forever.

Becoming his church's "secret weapon" the one they let out of the catacombs when needed… when he is not needed, he would be one of the greatest sages of his church, they would seek him out for advice, to interpret doctrine.

Over the years he would lose touch with his humanity, only having the strictest interpretations of his faith affording him any semblance of sanity.

In the end, this would influence his church, radicalizing it ever so slowly.

Holy Cow awesome text man, you rock I will have to use that as a plot in a game, and yes I will quote you and give you mad props.


Inquisitors from Pathfinder strike me as heavily influenced from inquisitors in warhammer. The idea of a lich inquisitor works wonderfully with this idea. An ancient hulking force of justice and order, coming to spread his religion through brutality, fire, and malice.

Shadow Lodge

Fraust wrote:
Inquisitors from Pathfinder strike me as heavily influenced from inquisitors in warhammer. The idea of a lich inquisitor works wonderfully with this idea. An ancient hulking force of justice and order, coming to spread his religion through brutality, fire, and malice.

You have given me an adventure hook: The Sandpoint Witch Trials!

It's that justice and order part that doesn't fit...


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Inquisitors from Pathfinder strike me as heavily influenced from inquisitors in warhammer. The idea of a lich inquisitor works wonderfully with this idea. An ancient hulking force of justice and order, coming to spread his religion through brutality, fire, and malice.

You have given me an adventure hook: The Sandpoint Witch Trials!

It's that justice and order part that doesn't fit...

Justice is alignment independent, and you can establish order without it being holy good harmonious foo order, you could have malevolant (even thinking their good if you like) dictatorial order as well.


Beckett wrote:
Not all undead are evil. In 3E there were the Deathless (good undead), or at least positive energy undead. I think the the PF Bestiary mention nonevil Mummies, too.

True, (And the books by C.S. Friedman were cool/creepy too!)

I recall an adventure in the Al'Quadim setting. There was a Lich in there who was not evil. In fact, iirc, after you 'encountered' him, he actually became the groups primary sage/informant/etc. I believe he simply turned to Lichdom so he could continue his studies uninterrupted.

(A little extreme for me, and I'm a bookworm!) ;)

Dark Archive

It is possible for liches to turn good as all things. Its just a decidedly evil act to play with your soul as such.


Dissinger wrote:
It is possible for liches to turn good as all things. Its just a decidedly evil act to play with your soul as such.

Now isn't that a matter of a good moral discussion... I would have no problems with someone manipulating their soul to escape death.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Inquisitors from Pathfinder strike me as heavily influenced from inquisitors in warhammer. The idea of a lich inquisitor works wonderfully with this idea. An ancient hulking force of justice and order, coming to spread his religion through brutality, fire, and malice.

You have given me an adventure hook: The Sandpoint Witch Trials!

It's that justice and order part that doesn't fit...

Well, if you're basing your idea on the Salem witch trials, do remember they had very little to do with justice and order. The illusion was that it was all about saving the community, and protecting good moral fiber...the truth (at least from what I've found researching it...wasn't exactly there) was people were pointing fingers at anyone they didn't like...anyone they didn't understand...and anyone who might point a finger at them.

Also...this probably doesn't help the argument that willfully becoming a lich isn't always an evil act...but I would so become a lich if able. Not sure how the girlfriend would feel about it...but that's what polymorph is for right?

Shadow Lodge

Fraust wrote:
Well, if you're basing your idea on the Salem witch trials, do remember they had very little to do with justice and order. The illusion was that it was all about saving the community, and protecting good moral fiber...the truth (at least from what I've found researching it...wasn't exactly there) was people were pointing fingers at anyone they didn't like...anyone they didn't understand...and anyone who might point a finger at them.

Hence the reason I thought a lack of order and justice would be a problem for an inquisiter.

But to become a lich? Never feeling warmth, your blood pulsing through your body, you heartbeat. To never breath in the scent of flowers or taste your favored food... It seems like an price that is much to high.


Ahhh, I see where you're coming from with the justice and order thing. I think it could still work though. Mr inquisilich comes to town and the trials begin. At first the weirdos and ne're do wells are pointed out as worthy of a good ol' fashion burning...Then those who question the morality of setting folk on fire get to go up in flames. This will quickly lead to those in power pointing out rivals...who turn around and and point their accusers out...and chaos slowly (or quickly) insues...eventualy mr inquisilich gets fed up, and proclaims the whole town corrupt and calls in the space marines to kick in doors, punch babies, and shoot innocent citizens with seventy five callibur exploding tip projectiles....or you know, something along those lines...

Also, it's january and I live in wyoming...so the whole never feeling warmth thing is kinda nothing new. Lich's being a minimum of 11th level, so I'd be guarenteed to be casting fifth or sixth level spells...yeah...I could loose what's left of my humanity for that (not really that much left to be honest).


personally, i'd go for the renegade mastermaker route instead. because its METAL!


Tetrasol wrote:
Nunspa wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

An inquisitor could become a lich... which is sort of a scary concept.

It can be a really twisted story idea….

A man who took on the "curse" of being a lich to protect his religion.... forever.

Becoming his church's "secret weapon" the one they let out of the catacombs when needed… when he is not needed, he would be one of the greatest sages of his church, they would seek him out for advice, to interpret doctrine.

Over the years he would lose touch with his humanity, only having the strictest interpretations of his faith affording him any semblance of sanity.

In the end, this would influence his church, radicalizing it ever so slowly.

Holy Cow awesome text man, you rock I will have to use that as a plot in a game, and yes I will quote you and give you mad props.

Thank you....

you may want to look up my new post under inquisiter feedback...


Dagnabbit!!...I hate it when people come up with sick and twisted thoughts before I do!!


KnightErrantJR wrote:
There was specific mention of bard "arch-liches (good aligned liches)" in the Forgotten Realms. The Baneliches were also fairly nasty in FR as well, and those guys were all cleric liches.

And don't forget the 'phylactery-less' Elven Baelnorns (good liches).

On Wiki, they are even mentioned as Eladrin good liches in 4th Edition.

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