Animal Companion (Wolf) and Trip Attack


Rules Questions

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Liberty's Edge

I have a ranger with a new wolf animal companion. I really like that the wolf has the potential to trip on a successful attack. The problem I'm running into, however, is that the Wolf's CMB is not great so he has yet to actually trip anyone.

Are there any feats or other tweaks I can use to either bump up his CMB or otherwise improve his chances of actually succeeding on a trip?

Thanks!!


Yar!

Weapon Focus: Bite will add +1 to attacks using it's bite, including a trips attempts caused with it's bite.

Low level wolves have a higher dex than strength, so weapon finesse: bite will add dex instead of strength, however, I don't recomend that as at level 7 it's strength goes up by 8 and it's dex goes down by 2. plus, it gains a size bonus for becoming large. (at that point, it's trip becomes very effective)

Improved trip and greater trip would be nice, but they require an Int score of 13, which wolves do not have.

*shrugs*

really, you just need to be patient and let it grow up a bit (a.k.a. level up)

Liberty's Edge

Pirate wrote:

Yar!

Weapon Focus: Bite will add +1 to attacks using it's bite, including a trips attempts caused with it's bite.

Low level wolves have a higher dex than strength, so weapon finesse: bite will add dex instead of strength, however, I don't recomend that as at level 7 it's strength goes up by 8 and it's dex goes down by 2. plus, it gains a size bonus for becoming large. (at that point, it's trip becomes very effective)

Improved trip and greater trip would be nice, but they require an Int score of 13, which wolves do not have.

*shrugs*

really, you just need to be patient and let it grow up a bit (a.k.a. level up)

Yeah, I considered weapon finesse and decided against it for the very reasons you cited. I agree that once he is Large, he will be much better at trip attemps.

Good point about Weapon Focus though. That +1 to hit would also increase the CMB, even if it's only by 1 ...


Anything you can do to boosts its Str would be helpful. I don't have my PF book in front of me atm, so I'm not sure if rangers have that spell on their list or not, but if you have a caster buddy willing to reserve a spell slot . . . .

Also, magic fang -- check that out. I'm not sure if the bonus helps with CMB, but it might. (I'm still catching up with the changes from 3.5 to PF.)

Edit: CMB is base attack + Str mod + size mod. I kind of think Weapon Focus and magic fang might not help with trips, because they don't actually increase any of those factors, they just add a bonus to hit and dmg, but again, I don't have the book with me atm (supposed to be working! LOL!).

Liberty's Edge

Can you give him the feat Agile Maneuvers?


Aarrr.

Agile Maneuvers switches strength for dex in regards to all combat maneuvers, regardless of what is used to make the maneuver. It suffers the same fate as weapon finesse, as once it becomes Large, it becomes useless. It's dex while medium sized only offers a +1 advantage compared to it's strength, so it's still better to go with weapon focus: bite and gain that +1 to bite attacks and combat maneuvers initiated with it's bite (it's trip).

Of course, if your DM allows your animal companion to retrain feats, you can go weapon finesse (better than agile maneuvers in this case, as we're focusing on bite-trips) as well as weapon focus: bite for an extra edge at the moment, then retrain the finesse for something better (lung, fleet, improved natural attack are some suggestions)... though that option (retraining) is completely up to your DM

Liberty's Edge

Michael Johnson 66 wrote:

Anything you can do to boosts its Str would be helpful. I don't have my PF book in front of me atm, so I'm not sure if rangers have that spell on their list or not, but if you have a caster buddy willing to reserve a spell slot . . . .

Also, magic fang -- check that out. I'm not sure if the bonus helps with CMB, but it might. (I'm still catching up with the changes from 3.5 to PF.)

Good ideas. However, I'm playing a Spell-less Ranger (current issue of Kobold Quarterly) so I don't cast spells. I could certainly find a willing caster of course or maybe try for a strength increasing magic item for my wolf ...

Liberty's Edge

Oops, I was thinking about the cat, not the wolf. My bad. The cat has a much better Dex and still has the trip ability.

Pirate wrote:


Agile Maneuvers switches strength for dex in regards to all combat maneuvers, regardless of what is used to make the maneuver. It suffers the same fate as weapon finesse, as once it becomes Large, it becomes useless. It's dex while medium sized only offers a +1 advantage compared to it's strength, so it's still better to go with weapon focus: bite and gain that +1 to bite attacks and combat maneuvers initiated with it's bite (it's trip).


Marc Radle 81 wrote:
Michael Johnson 66 wrote:

Anything you can do to boosts its Str would be helpful. I don't have my PF book in front of me atm, so I'm not sure if rangers have that spell on their list or not, but if you have a caster buddy willing to reserve a spell slot . . . .

Also, magic fang -- check that out. I'm not sure if the bonus helps with CMB, but it might. (I'm still catching up with the changes from 3.5 to PF.)

Good ideas. However, I'm playing a Spell-less Ranger (current issue of Kobold Quarterly) so I don't cast spells. I could certainly find a willing caster of course or maybe try for a strength increasing magic item for my wolf ...

A spiked collar of mighty strength! LOL!


have a look at the APG, it is kinda in playtest but I think it will be ok, in the inquisitor section there are some tactical feats, if you really want to go that path you can both take some of these feats to make a pretty decent duo ^^

in regard to this thread I'd say coordinated manoeuvers is what you want, as long as you are adjacent to someone that also has this feat you get + 2 to your CMB, + 4 if either of you tries to break free of a grapple.

good stuff, might be another 1 or 2 you might be interested in.

Outflank and Precise Strike are pretty sweet as well, though they require you to flank and the other needs you to be adjacent you might like these even better still.


How does the wolf's attack roll affect his trip attack?

The trip attack is made as a free bonus, using the CMB is it not?

Therefore Weaponfocus would not enhance the bonus.

Am I mistaken, because I don't think I am.


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

How does the wolf's attack roll affect his trip attack?

The trip attack is made as a free bonus, using the CMB is it not?

Therefore Weaponfocus would not enhance the bonus.

Am I mistaken, because I don't think I am.

Referencing materials from the SRD.

Quote:

Trip (Ex) A creature with the trip special attack can attempt to trip its opponent as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity if it hits with the specified attack. If the attempt fails, the creature is not tripped in return.

Format: trip (bite); Location: individual attacks.

Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

We notice that you can take weapon focus for grapple, which may mean you could take it for trip, but then again that'd be one of those, hey, it doesn't say I can't take it for trip.

But taking weapon focus bite would not give a bonus to the trip bonus given by the attack.

Instead of trip bonus, call it, Free trip granted.

Weapon focus would NOT increase the CMB from what I see. It merely makes that single ATTACK form more accurate, not any other action/attack forms.


CONFIRMED

The feat Weapon Focus (Bite) on a wolf WOULD NOT give any bonus to the trip attempt granted by a successful bite attack.

HOWEVER

There are no rules saying that you cannot take Weapon Focus (Trip)

Which would give a +1 to the trip.

Wait.... ---- Possible damn it.
Hmmmm... Hold on..

Further referencing for further confirmation. I MAY be mistaken. Gathering second opinion after finding additional information. Must interpret.

Second opinion and further research has been made
Upon further research I came about this bit under the combat section ->Combat Maneuvers -> Determining Success.

Quote:
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver   

Under the general rule that specifics trump general.

We see that Weapon Focus states it can be taken for Grapple, a Combat Maneuver.

Therefore we are under the impression that.

Weapon Focus (Bite) would NOT add any bonus to the free trip maneuver granted.

However, if they had Weapon Focus (Trip) well.. they would get a bonus.


I am inclined to agree, a combat maneuver does not seem to add it's bonus, or you can add it but you can use any weapon and gain that + 1 trip bonus with weapon focus (trip) .. not sure what to think of that

I suppose a master swordsman should be better disarming with his sword than with a mace ?


yar.

See, I read that as...

Quote:
Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver

The wolf is using his bite to make the trip, therefor he gets to add feats that add to his bite attack to it's trip, as his bite is being used to make the trip, and his bite gets a +1 from a feat: weapon focus: bite.

I also don't see how making a trip as a free action with a bite excludes it from these benifits.

Shadow Lodge

Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

Second opinion and further research has been made

Upon further research I came about this bit under the combat section ->Combat Maneuvers -> Determining Success.

Quote:
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver

Weapon Focus (Bite) would NOT add any bonus to the free trip maneuver granted.

However, if they had Weapon Focus (Trip) well.. they would get a bonus.

Then what are they making the attack roll with? CMB replaces the attack roll, not bonuses based something other than BAB and Str. And it makes sense for the weapon you are best with to be better for combat maneuver bonuses...

*sigh*

It is possible that I am wrong of course. That is usually the case with opposing viewpoints...


these bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver seems to indicate the weapon focus would count as normal, as would flanking and such.


Pirate wrote:

Aarrr.

Agile Maneuvers switches strength for dex in regards to all combat maneuvers, regardless of what is used to make the maneuver. It suffers the same fate as weapon finesse, as once it becomes Large, it becomes useless.

"once it becomes Large ..." and you point is ????

Once your companion changes, any companion not just the wolf, dismiss it, wait 24 hours and call a new one. He'll be 'built' just the way you want him to be, with all new feats and trick. Seriously.

-Swiftbrook


Pirate wrote:

Yar!

Weapon Focus: Bite will add +1 to attacks using it's bite, including a trips attempts caused with it's bite.

Low level wolves have a higher dex than strength, so weapon finesse: bite will add dex instead of strength, however, I don't recomend that as at level 7 it's strength goes up by 8 and it's dex goes down by 2. plus, it gains a size bonus for becoming large. (at that point, it's trip becomes very effective)

Improved trip and greater trip would be nice, but they require an Int score of 13, which wolves do not have.

*shrugs*

really, you just need to be patient and let it grow up a bit (a.k.a. level up)

Actually I'm pretty sure that wolves get improved trip as a racial feat. Last time I checked, they did in 3.5 MM, and in the PF Bestiary, there is nothing under their stats in print saying improved trip, but it does show a bonus to trips and for resisting them, like a +4 to CMD vs. trip attacks

Liberty's Edge

LurkinRangerV wrote:
Pirate wrote:

Yar!

Weapon Focus: Bite will add +1 to attacks using it's bite, including a trips attempts caused with it's bite.

Low level wolves have a higher dex than strength, so weapon finesse: bite will add dex instead of strength, however, I don't recomend that as at level 7 it's strength goes up by 8 and it's dex goes down by 2. plus, it gains a size bonus for becoming large. (at that point, it's trip becomes very effective)

Improved trip and greater trip would be nice, but they require an Int score of 13, which wolves do not have.

*shrugs*

really, you just need to be patient and let it grow up a bit (a.k.a. level up)

Actually I'm pretty sure that wolves get improved trip as a racial feat. Last time I checked, they did in 3.5 MM, and in the PF Bestiary, there is nothing under their stats in print saying improved trip, but it does show a bonus to trips and for resisting them, like a +4 to CMD vs. trip attacks

Unfortunately, animal companions do NOT get any racial feats or abilities that are not listed under the animal companion entry. They only get what is specifically listed for that animal companion.

So, no Improved Trip bonus feat (unless we house rule it, of course)


Animal Companions

An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits

Racial traits are anything that race gets. Bonus feats are a part of racial traits. Regular feats are not.

On a separate note: Wolves don't get improved trip, but they do the the trip(monster ability)


concerro wrote:

Animal Companions

An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits

Racial traits are anything that race gets. Bonus feats are a part of racial traits. Regular feats are not.

On a separate note: Wolves don't get improved trip, but they do the the trip(monster ability)

Actually, in a different thread one of the Paizo (official) people came in and said that racial stuff that isn't in the stat blocks isn't included in ACs, but that if you decide to houserule it in, it's probably not a problem.

*trying to find the post*


Ressy, this is the thread you're looking for right HERE

However, the above quote "An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits." is in fact a real quote from Pathfinder under the druid companion descriptions. -_^

(on a side note, citing where a quote comes from helps a lot. Otherwise, you could just be writing whatever you feel like, bolding it, and saying it's official, or it could be from an outdated edition that conflicts with what pathfinder actually states. Just an FYI).

Swiftbrook wrote:

"once it becomes Large ..." and you point is ????

Once your companion changes, any companion not just the wolf, dismiss it, wait 24 hours and call a new one. He'll be 'built' just the way you want him to be, with all new feats and trick. Seriously.

-Swiftbrook

My point was, a medium wolf has a base strength of 13 and a dex of 15. Once it becomes large it has a base strength of 21 and a dex of 13. So, the AGILE MANEUVERS feat becomes useless for the wolf at that point. With the feat (as a large wolf), if would have a CMB of BAB+1, and without the feat, it would have a CMB of BAB+5. Hence, the FEAT Agile Maneuvers becomes useless when the wolf becomes large. It would quite literally be better off without it. Seriously.

I was not talking about ditching the wolf when it becomes large. My apologies for the confusion.

As for 'ditching' animal companions. I'd rather not, from an RP standpoint. It just doesn't feel right to do it for mechanical reasons. If there was an in game reason (for example, a halfling society based around militaristic advancement, that trains the average soldier with wolves/riding dogs, but the advanced elite of their society/army all ride specially trained Deinonychus') then I can see ditching the old one for a new one after advancement. Especially if used as a mount and its advancement makes it less practical to ride. Otherwise, I try to actually form an RP based bond with my animal companion/mount, and would try to avoid 'ditching' them for a better instantly customized one by being conscientious of it's advancement and what feat selections will actually be beneficial in the long run, as well as make what sense at the moment.

^_^


Why not pick up Agile Maneuvers then swap the feat out when it goes Large?

Liberty's Edge

William Timmins wrote:

Why not pick up Agile Maneuvers then swap the feat out when it goes Large?

Certainly an interesting idea, but I don't think that's a core rule, is it? Swapping out feats is more of a home game / house rule thing.

Liberty's Edge

Ressy wrote:
concerro wrote:

Animal Companions

An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits

Racial traits are anything that race gets. Bonus feats are a part of racial traits. Regular feats are not.

On a separate note: Wolves don't get improved trip, but they do the the trip(monster ability)

Actually, in a different thread one of the Paizo (official) people came in and said that racial stuff that isn't in the stat blocks isn't included in ACs, but that if you decide to houserule it in, it's probably not a problem.

*trying to find the post*

Correct - Animal Companions do NOT get the racial feats etc listed in the Bestiary. As James said, standard animals and Animal Companions are not the same ... they are slightly different "beasts' as it were. Again, he has also said that allowing Animal Companions to have those racial feats, abilities etc is certainly reasonable as a house rule but it's not a core rule.


It depends on how you define core; there are rules for swapping feats with advancement in PH2.


When I think core pathfinder, I think of only the Corerulebook and Beastiary, as not everything 3x is compatable (lingering spell for bards, for example). As such, retraining would have to be house-rule/DM permission.

As for CMD vs trips, that is because it's a quadruped, not because it has improved trip. Improved trip adds to its CMB as well, and it's CMB does not has such bonus'. go here for trip to see that creatures with more than two legs gain bonus' to CMD vs trip attempts against them.


I'd say that since Weapon Focus lists grapple, that it would still not get the +1 from the weapon focus feat.

Though, I do see where you're coming from, and would agree with you, had it not been for the specifics trumps general, and the fact that grapple, a maneuver is listed as a possible candidate for weapon focus.

Because then.

IF it did go your way.

One could take Weapon Focus Bite, and Weapon Focus Trip, and get a +2.

Then again, I'm close to being persuaded to your side.. and sort of not, sooo yeah.

I'd have to have an official PF guy come in to change my mind I suppose.


grapple is not something you do with a weapon usually though, there might be a few rare exceptions, then trip is a maneuver you can do with a wide variety of weapons, I can see reason to take either of them as a feat separate from weapon focus in a weapon which could get the bonus on trip as well.

I'd like an official PF guy to come down and give us his / her opinion as well though.


Marc Radle 81 wrote:
Ressy wrote:
concerro wrote:

Animal Companions

An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits

Racial traits are anything that race gets. Bonus feats are a part of racial traits. Regular feats are not.

On a separate note: Wolves don't get improved trip, but they do the the trip(monster ability)

Actually, in a different thread one of the Paizo (official) people came in and said that racial stuff that isn't in the stat blocks isn't included in ACs, but that if you decide to houserule it in, it's probably not a problem.

*trying to find the post*

Correct - Animal Companions do NOT get the racial feats etc listed in the Bestiary. As James said, standard animals and Animal Companions are not the same ... they are slightly different "beasts' as it were. Again, he has also said that allowing Animal Companions to have those racial feats, abilities etc is certainly reasonable as a house rule but it's not a core rule.

Bonus feats are racial traits and I understand RAI is no bonus feats, but RAW its gets them. I just want the next printing of the book to get corrected. Something along the lines of "the animal companion receives all racial traits except for _____" would be nice.


This also seems to be no problem at all, since creatures still have to fullfill requirements of feats they do not get as bonus feats.

In effect, unless I have it all wrong, it only gives more options to redesign your animal companion with different feat choices than listed in the standard statblock.


Yar!

EotWC: I disagree with your interpretation of the WF feat and what it's description means.

here is a more detailed look into why:
It only states unarmed, grapple, and rays as extra's from the normal choice of a weapon. IF it said "including unarmed attacks and various combat maneuvers, such as grapple, disarm, etc", then I would say you could go WF: trip. But it does not. I believe for the reason mentioned above by Remco... grapple is an attack that does not rely on using a weapon to achieve its results at all. (there is no weapon that lets you grapple in the PF Core Rulebook that I could find. The net applies the entangled condition, which is not the same thing) Trip doesn't have to, but it still can be executed by using a weapon.

So, I would say that you could take "weapon focus: weapon, unarmed, grapple". BUT not trip, sunder, bullrush, charge, etc.

Also, "weapon focus: weapon" would add it's bonus to any combat maneuver checks that uses that weapon to execute.

Another way to think about this separation is this:

Weapon Focus can be specialized in:
Specific Weapons: you attack with them. They are your weapons.
Unarmed: you attack with hands/feet/head-butt. They become your weapons.
Grapple: you attack with full body, pressure, etc. Your body and body weight become your weapon.
Rays: you attack with magical rays that require an attack roll. They are your weapons.

Weapon focus can not be specialized in:
Trip: is a maneuver that relies on using your body or a weapon to achieve a result. Trip in itself is not a "weapon"
Bull-rush: is a maneuver that relies on using your body or a weapon (ie: shield bash) to achieve a result. BR in itself is not a "weapon"
Disarm: is a maneuver that relies on using your body or a weapon to achieve a result. Disarm in itself is not a "weapon"
Sunder: is a maneuver that relies on using your body or a weapon to achieve a result. Sunder in itself is not a "weapon"
Charge: is a maneuver that relies on using movement plus your body or a weapon to achieve a result. Charge in itself is not a "weapon"
Two-Weapon Fighting: is a fighting style that relies on using your body or a weapon 9and combinations thereof) to achieve a result (multiple attacks from multiple sources). TWF in itself is not a "weapon"
...etc.

Thus, I remain firm that WF: bite would add +1 to combat maneuvers that use the Bite to initiate, ie: the wolf’s trip. And that WF: trip in not a viable use of WF.

*adds another 2cp to the pile forming before me*


Just a side note, unless your animal has Int 3, you can't actually buy Weapon Finesse. Just thought I'd point that out for all those high Dex pet owners :p


I've had the aching pain in my mind to say that WF Bite would add the +1 to trip because of how it's listed in the maneuvers.

But truth be told, I've had another DM tell me of what his decision was, and for some reason I was inclined to agree with him, and go against my interpretation of the rules, so yeah.

I would STILL like an official PF answer to this question however.

As part of me, recently due to seeing the numerous amount of errors in the beastiary ><.... Feels that PF may have screwed this one up >.>

However.. for now...

-Whispers- I'll go with the adding of it >.>


Shifty wrote:
Just a side note, unless your animal has Int 3, you can't actually buy Weapon Finesse. Just thought I'd point that out for all those high Dex pet owners :p

Unless, of course, your DM says you can.


wspatterson wrote:
Unless, of course, your DM says you can.

Sure, but just not according to the RAW... a bit of an omission I must say.


why can't an animal take weapon finesse ? >>


Pirate wrote:

Yar!

EotWC: I disagree with your interpretation of the WF feat and what it's description means.

** spoiler omitted **...

The trip is activated by the bite attack. How else is it tripping anything? If you need a visual, there is always youtube.


Arr?

wraithstrike wrote:
The trip is activated by the bite attack. How else is it tripping anything? If you need a visual, there is always youtube.

I'm confused. Is this comment directed at me? Because that is exactly what I've been saying. We've been discussing how certain feats affect and interact with the bite-trip attack.

Shifty wrote:

Just a side note, unless your animal has Int 3, you can't actually buy Weapon Finesse. Just thought I'd point that out for all those high Dex pet owners :p

Remco wrote:

why can't an animal take weapon finesse ? >>

Yes, please cit your source. To be less cluttered, I will cit mine and quote them via spoilers.

feats for AC's on page 52:
Feats

This is the total number of feats possessed by an animal companion. Animal companions should select their feats from those listed under Animal Feats. Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency). Note that animal companions cannot select a feat with a requirement of base attack bonus +1 until they gain their second feat at 3 Hit Dice.

Nothing wrong here. They can take feats that are not on the animal list so long as they meet the pre-reqs. Some are just less usefull than others.

Weapon Finesse feat on page 136:
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.

Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.

No pre-reqs at all. Still looks good to me.

feats again for AC's on page 53:
Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.

Ah, is this what you are talking about... but please notice: weapon finesse IS in the feat selection that it can choose from.

skills for AC's on page 52:
This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.


As you can see, the key word here is skills. Not feats, but skills. Is this the rule you are thinking of? Because it has nothing to do with it taking a feat, but ranks in skills other than Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and swim (these are class skills for all animals, as per page 53 of the Core Rulebook and page 307 of the bestiary)

skills again on page 53:
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival* (Wis), and Swim* (Str). All of the skills marked with an (*) are class skills for animal companions. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

oooh, even more skill selection, with class skills marked. These are the skills it can put ranks in with an Int of 1 - 2.

Animal creature type from the Bestiary, page 306-307:
An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Animals usually have additional information on how they can serve as companions. An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted).

d8 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression).
Good Fortitude and Reflex saves.
Skill points equal to 2 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for animals: Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim.
Traits: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).
Low-light vision.
Alignment: Always neutral.
Treasure: None.
Proficient with its natural weapons only. A noncombative herbivore treats its natural weapons as secondary attacks. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature's attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment.
Proficient with no armor unless trained for war (trained for war means the Handle Animal skill has been used to give it the Fighting general purpose.

Animals breathe, eat, and sleep.

Again, this does not have the restriction on feats that you suggest.


Pirate wrote:

Arr?

wraithstrike wrote:
The trip is activated by the bite attack. How else is it tripping anything? If you need a visual, there is always youtube.

I'm confused. Is this comment directed at me? Because that is exactly what I've been saying. We've been discussing how certain feats affect and interact with the bite-trip attack.

Shifty wrote:

Just a side note, unless your animal has Int 3, you can't actually buy Weapon Finesse. Just thought I'd point that out for all those high Dex pet owners :p

Remco wrote:

why can't an animal take weapon finesse ? >>

Yes, please cit your source. To be less cluttered, I will cit mine and quote them via spoilers.

** spoiler omitted **

Nothing wrong here. They can take feats that are not on the animal list so long as they meet the pre-reqs. Some are just less usefull than others.

** spoiler omitted **

No pre-reqs at all. Still looks good to me.

** spoiler omitted **...

I don't remember. Darn I should not debate this early in the morning. I will however respond to this when I am more coherent.

Liberty's Edge

While certainly interesting, this has begun to focus in a little too much on rules interpretations regarding one or two feats. For the purpose of this thread, let's agree that it is a little unclear if feats like weapon focus (bite) would be helpful or not when an animal such as a wolf tries his trip.

Now, having said that, let's try to get back to the original topic asked by the original poster (ahem ... ME):

What other things might help increase the chance that the wolf's trip attack will succeed?

Liberty's Edge

At the risk of negating my previous post ...

Page 199 of the Core book seems to be pretty clear:

Under Performing Combat Maneuver, it says that you make an attack roll and add your CMB. It also specifically says you may add any bonus you have to attack rolls from spells, feats or other abilities to this total.

This sounds like the wolf makes his normal attack roll to bite his enemy. If he hits, he would then use that same attack roll (the base number rolled) and then add his CMB plus any other bonuses from spells, feats etc. to that roll to make the free trip attempt. If he had weapon focus (bite) it sounds like that would apply to the trip as well.


I was going to say, why not use Improved Trip, until i saw the prerequisites. Maybe your GM allows a house ruling for animal companions with the "Trip" ability.

Also I would ask the GM about his resolution on the weapon focus debate here (wether weapon focus (bite) would add to the trip attempt and/or you can take weapon focus (Trip))

Otherwise you'll have to wait for 10th level and just hope for good CMB rolls as long as you want to use it for more than just a flanking partner.


Yar.

Back to the OP topic, the following are all viable options:

Feats
~ * Weapon Focus: Bite *
~Weapon Finesse (while medium sized only) OR
~Agile Maneuvers (while medium sized only)

Magic Items
~ * Belt of Giant Strength * (turned into an item wearable by the wolf. ie; collar)
~ Belt of incredible Dexterity (as above, only if going dex route via Weapon Finesse or Agile Maneuvers, while medium sized only)
~ * Amulet of Mighty Fists * (turned into an item wearable by the wolf. ie: earring)

Magic
~ Magic Fang cast by a friend (if you have one, will not stack with an Amulet of Mighty Fists)

Tactical
~ * Flank with your wolf *
~ Aid another action for its trip (though I'd say keep to flank so you can attack as well)

* = personal recommendations


Never mind - when I printed out my PDF copy of the Core rules back in the day it looks like Finesse got gobbled (string error? theers only what looks to be a comma). I just opened up my printed copy of the book and it clearly states Weapon Finesse. Excuse me while I retract my point :)

Although now I'm cranky as my Dex cat didn't have WFin. How annoying.

Grand Lodge

So, my animal companion has melee: bite +13 (1d6 +7 plus trip). When it receives multiattack, does that become "bite +13 (1d6 +7 plus trip)/bite +8 (1d6 +7 plus trip)" or "bite +13 (1d6 +7)/bite +8 (1d6 +7 plus trip)" or "bite +13 (1d6 +7 plus trip)/bite +8 (1d6 +7)" or do I lose the trip ability while attacking if I do a double attack?


almost 7 years.
And it's the first one.

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