Hiding the Phylactery


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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William Timmins wrote:

Embroil yourself into politics and world-spanning events.

Set it up so that if you are destroyed, it will bring utter ruin.

Set yourself as a beneficial, charitable, wonderful guy, who is clearly the hand of all that is good in the world. If your nastier urges become a problem, use Wish (or similar) to change your mind/alignment from Evil to Neutral. (It's like therapy, but faster!)

Having Paladins come to your aid to fight off evil demons bent on destroying your phylactery for bonus points.

not sure, Id even respond seriously to this :p

anyway, wish to change your alignment voluntarily, tsk lame lich you would be, it isnt an episode of the carebears !

Liberty's Edge

Moorluck wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I was thinking of going lich with my sorceress witch sometime in the near future.

I was hoping we could make a thread in which we brainstorm creative methods of hiding one's phylactery from one's enemies.

Also, what are the in-game implications of a player character becoming a lich? Unlike D&D, I don't suddenly gain a LA that stalls my level progression. Do I have to wait for the PCs to catch up in some fashion? Or do I resume leveling up as normal?

Is she by chance Callistrian? I know.... I'm sick. :/

she would have conflict of interest with Urgothoa :P

that fetish is hers

Liberty's Edge

Pirate wrote:
Unfortunately, non-detection and other divination blocking magic cannot be made permanent. Lead containers however are great for blocking divinations. Inside a lead box inside a trap filled maze of a demiplane accessible only via the outlands at a specific location and time. (open for a one minute period once every 10 years, teleport only, no visual signs, perhaps the entrance point is hidden inside solid granite?)

check Krull :P

there is always a chance :P

for me its easy...

Magic Lead Box so it will never corrode... put it into a ship.... then send the ship toward the Eye (forgot the rest of the name)... let it sink there... I want to see someone taking it out of there. (of course we curse the ship to become haunted so if anyoen tries to take it, it has defenders.. if anyone robes it... it shall rise and hunt them!)


Montalve wrote:
Pirate wrote:
Unfortunately, non-detection and other divination blocking magic cannot be made permanent. Lead containers however are great for blocking divinations. Inside a lead box inside a trap filled maze of a demiplane accessible only via the outlands at a specific location and time. (open for a one minute period once every 10 years, teleport only, no visual signs, perhaps the entrance point is hidden inside solid granite?)

check Krull :P

there is always a chance :P

for me its easy...

Magic Lead Box so it will never corrode... put it into a ship.... then send the ship toward the Eye (forgot the rest of the name)... let it sink there... I want to see someone taking it out of there. (of course we curse the ship to become haunted so if anyoen tries to take it, it has defenders.. if anyone robes it... it shall rise and hunt them!)

No offense Montalve, but I cannot pass this up!

I want to see the Flying Dutchman wearing a robe of eyes!

Liberty's Edge

Turin the Mad wrote:

No offense Montalve, but I cannot pass this up!

I want to see the Flying Dutchman wearing a robe of eyes!

lol duh... my fault :)

*steals, then :P

yet & quoting an internet dictionary:

rob: take something away by force or without the consent of the owner; "The burglars robbed him of all his money"

yeah i know :P i used an extra E :P


1) Get a freind, lover, sibling, whatever you trust 11th level spellcaster with craft Wonderous Items and a a nice Fortitude.

2) Cast Flesh to Stone on him.

3) Make it your Phlacatery.

4) Cast Stone to Flesh.

5) Make him/her/it do 1-4 on you.

6) ????

7) Profit

Bonus points if you both turn into enemies and want to destroy each other at all cost.

Humbly,
Yawar


YawarFiesta wrote:

1) Get a freind, lover, sibling, whatever you trust 11th level spellcaster with craft Wonderous Items and a a nice Fortitude.

2) Cast Flesh to Stone on him.

3) Make it your Phlacatery.

4) Cast Stone to Flesh.

5) Make him/her/it do 1-4 on you.

6) ????

7) Profit

Bonus points if you both turn into enemies and want to destroy each other at all cost.

Humbly,
Yawar

But then if either of you die, you both die. Adventurers would be hunting you down to kill your brother.


Caineach wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:

1) Get a freind, lover, sibling, whatever you trust 11th level spellcaster with craft Wonderous Items and a a nice Fortitude.

2) Cast Flesh to Stone on him.

3) Make it your Phlacatery.

4) Cast Stone to Flesh.

5) Make him/her/it do 1-4 on you.

6) ????

7) Profit

Bonus points if you both turn into enemies and want to destroy each other at all cost.

Humbly,
Yawar

But then if either of you die, you both die. Adventurers would be hunting you down to kill your brother.

The only way to kill one is to kill both.

If you set contingencies to warn the other about your death and viceversa, wich maybe easier depending if the DM rules that you as a phylactery would know, the other can retreat to an unreachable safe haven and wait for you to respawn.

This moreefficient if you add more people to the circle becauseits harder to kill all at the same time and you have more powerful spellcasters watching your back.

Also you can force your most powerful spellcasting minions liches wannabes to turn into your phylactery so they won't betray you.

Humbly,
Yawar


I had a group of characters in a sea-based campaign go to destroy a Lich once. His phylactery was just a 5' diameter adamantine ball that was hidden in a cave somewhere. Rather than going through the effort it would take to break the ball, one character suggested dumping it in the ocean.

Initially a few people were against the idea, as this would prevent anyone from being able to get to it and destroy it in the future. Then they remembered the sheer amount of pressure the lich would deal with at the bottom of the ocean.

The lich's own durable phylactery would be the very thing that doomed him to an eternity of reforming only to be crushed by water.

I think Yawar's solution is fantastic. It could be taken even farther by having the circle of phlylactery liches go to other planes or take shifts of staying on the moon.

Also, does anyone know if a lich can make a new phylactery for itself and just ditch it's original? It'd be nasty to fight one who simply flesh-to-stoned a PC, stole the body, and phylactery'd it up.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Another fun trick:

1. Put the phylactery somewhere with guardians, such as hulking, moving golem statues, visible when the phyactery is scried for.

2. Set up a permanent teleporter right around the phylactery, so anyone teleporting in is immediately re-teleported to the location of your choice (maybe the lair of an ancient red dragon or something--a creature which the nosy intruders will not be optimally prepped for).

3. If the characters survive and return, be sure to have the hulking golems actually be some different type of creatures (e.g., devils) disguised by illusions.

4. Set up a contingent teleport on the phylactery itself to teleport away if it is touched by anyone or anything other than the lich itself, to a new fun location of your choice.

By the way, especially when it comes to NPC liches (the vast majority of them), I'm not afraid of breaking rules to create a more entertaining effect. Create unique magical effects, make spells permanent that are normally not subject to this effect (perhaps through the use of Craft Item feats rather than the permanency spell), etc. After all, the lich has plenty of time on its hands to research an effect to do whatever it pleases.


I had a very high level wizard who turned himself into a lich once.

He had constructed a demi-plane of his own that had a 180' radius. The plane consisted of earth for the lower half-sphere of the plane. Buried 60 feet below the surface with no access tunnel was a stone chamber lined with lead that contained his backup spellbook and his phylactery. The only other creature who knew of this space was my lich's cohort, who was also a lich. The cohort would every day cast a private sanctum on the stone chamber, making it impervious to scrying. A sequester spell was also kept on the phylactery and spellbook at all times, as well as a dimensional lock that was kept on the chamber with the exception of a 5ft square antechamber.

My lich had archmage levels and was able to cast Gate and Limited Wish both twice a day as spell like abilities. Thus getting to and from his hidden chamber and his demi plane were not problems if he were killed or otherwise denied access to preparing spells.

Liberty's Edge

I rather like the idea of a lich who everyone likes. I could see an entire town or village built up around a lich's lair to act as guardians of a sort.

In exchange for reasonable rent, he/she uses the occasional spell to encourage good harvests and to keep monsters at bay. Although he doesn't make a lot of personal appearances, he'll give gifts (nothing too lavish that people become spoiled) on special occasions and help those villagers in need.

A lich that well loved would have no need to protect his phylactery, other than keeping it in the locked curio cabinet next to his thimble collection (evil thimbles, mind you).


Remco Sommeling wrote:
Sheboygen wrote:
ulgulanoth wrote:

step 1: place phylactery in an iron golem

step 2: place golem in a large bag of holding
step 3: place bag of holding in another golem
step 4: repeat steps 2 and 3 until you run out of golems and bags
step 5: place the last bag in a permanent prismatic sphere in a deep casum in Eox or similarly airless planet(oid)
Steps 1-3 would work beautifully. Once you got to step 4, you create one of those inconveniencing tears in the fabric of reality, and are sucked in. Or something like that. Either way, the Lich would end up inside a bag of holding.
wow wouldnt it suck to lose your phylactery like that, dumbest lich in history of mankind ^_^

Argh, forum ate my post, twice.

SRD wrote:
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.

So putting your phylactery inside an extradimensional space, and putting that item inside another extradimensional space is a great way to make it inaccessible. You can use a permanent rope-trick to keep the Portable Hole+Bag of Holding thing from sending your phylactery to the astral plane. (Nothing can be placed inside either a portable hole or a bag of holding inside another extradimensional space)

I think plane shift allows you to leave extradimensional spaces, but not enter them, but I may be wrong.


The phylactery relies upon having a corpse within 60 feet to possess in order to allow the lich to return. All these extraplanar ideas fail utterly unless there is also a corpse within 60 feet in the same dimensional space.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Thanatos95 wrote:
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!
I actually did this to an enemy lich once. Found his "tomb" and turned his spellbook to ash. Didn't even bother with the phylactery. To my knowledge, the poor sap is still rotting there.

You could also create some magical item (like in AP 17 I believe) that creates a permanent dimensional anchor effect :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Arakhor wrote:
The phylactery relies upon having a corpse within 60 feet to possess in order to allow the lich to return. All these extraplanar ideas fail utterly unless there is also a corpse within 60 feet in the same dimensional space.

I've heard something similar for 3.5 dracoliches, but not for standard liches.

Please cite the rules source.

Grand Lodge

In Golarion hide your Phylactery in the Pit of Gormuz with the Terrasque. If you are NOT in Golarion, go capture the Terrasque, shrink it down and put it in stasis inside the Phylactery. Make the PCs think twice about wanting to destroy the Phylactery and release the Terrasque.


Arakhor wrote:
The phylactery relies upon having a corpse within 60 feet to possess in order to allow the lich to return. All these extraplanar ideas fail utterly unless there is also a corpse within 60 feet in the same dimensional space.

False. Liches do not possess corpses; their body is re-created at their phylactery when they are destroyed.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

The 'best' way (IMHO) is to trade phylacteries with another lich and stay the hell away from one another.

If you are destroyed, whoever killed you will likely assume the phylactery you're carrying is yours, smash it, and go about his day. You'll reform near the other lich, who should already be hard at work replacing his phylactery. You help him finish, take the new one, and leave.

Sure, liches are evil and untrustworthy, but this one has a mutually-assured destruction failsafe: The other lich has no reason to destroy your phylactery, because you could retailiate in kind. The weakest point in the system is when you freshly reform. You have no spells (and an available phylactery), and the other lich has no phylactery. Hopefully, the utility of this arrangement will prevent one of you from destroying the other in their moment of weakness.


Zurai wrote:


False. Liches do not possess corpses; their body is re-created at their phylactery when they are destroyed.

Speaking of bodies, how does lots of repeated castings of Simulacrum (of yourself) guarding your phylactery sound? They'd be at least* 6th level spellcasters (liches, no less) and are absolutely faithful.

*13th level minimum to cast 7th level spell.

They also don't cost that much (6500gp minimum each) and can use your back-up gear while guarding the place. And your back up spellbooks. They can even do useful stuff (craft skills) while on duty.


Ross Byers wrote:

The 'best' way (IMHO) is to trade phylacteries with another lich and stay the hell away from one another.

If you are destroyed, whoever killed you will likely assume the phylactery you're carrying is yours, smash it, and go about his day. You'll reform near the other lich, who should already be hard at work replacing his phylactery. You help him finish, take the new one, and leave.

Sure, liches are evil and untrustworthy, but this one has a mutually-assured destruction failsafe: The other lich has no reason to destroy your phylactery, because you could retailiate in kind. The weakest point in the system is when you freshly reform. You have no spells (and an available phylactery), and the other lich has no phylactery. Hopefully, the utility of this arrangement will prevent one of you from destroying the other in their moment of weakness.

Player characters cooperatively becoming liches en masse is one way to do this. Given the hideous expense of the phylactery alone means that - according to WBL - the best case to craft one is 13th level. Going by the 'reasonable proportion' rule of thumb (generally 25% of WBL), a player character is not going to be able to afford the phylactery until 18th level.

Strictly speaking, by these same guidelines no NPC (at least, those adhering to that section of the rules) is ever going to be a lich before 20th level.

Granted, the phylactery is of no value to the player characters (as it has to be destroyed to permanently dispatch the lich) as loot so this can be discounted as part of an NPC WBL assessment.

As cleverly pointed out, a Pathfinder lich does not require a specific set of spells to become one - only the ability to cast spells and a caster level of 11th or higher plus Craft Wondrous Items and 120k gp. I do believe that it is easy to reduce this cost to 40k gp if the character crafts the phylactery themselves. With the fabricate spell this is a very rapid craft check...

The 'craft it yourself' factor still makes it horribly expensive at 11th level (almost half of WBL), 40k out of 108k at 12th level and more reasonable after 12th (about a third or less of WBL).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:

If you are destroyed, whoever killed you will likely assume the phylactery you're carrying is yours, smash it, and go about his day. You'll reform near the other lich, who should already be hard at work replacing his phylactery. You help him finish, take the new one, and leave.

CAN you create a replacement? I've never heard of it, and most D&D supplements treats it as forever lost when destroyed.


Ravingdork wrote:
Please cite the rules source.

That's the 2nd Edition ruling, which they revived for dracoliches. The actual specifics of the 3E template are very sketchy indeed.


I did some reading today, and.. I can't figure out how you would find a phylactery that you had never seen in the first place.

The Scry spell only works on people not objects.

Locate object only works if you have observed the object firsthand, not through divination.

Augery and its proginy as well as Contact Other Plane are yes/no questions. (I guess you could have a map and yes/no each country trying to narrow it down somewhat.. but.. oi)

Clairaudience/voyance would technically work but you'd have to be close and know the location existed to scry upon it in the first place.

Short of "I Wish I knew where X's phylactery was" or a similar Miracle, I couldn't find any way for a PC to find out where such an item was located.

Am I missing something?

-S


You can use Legend Lore, because a phylactery is the signature item of a highish-level character. Granted, it will take some time, but still.


discern location would also (potentially) work, depending on the specifics.

Contributor

If you're going to hide a phylactery, make it a small unobtrusive item that's not notably unique: a popular style of luck token, the same sort of plain gold rings every well-to-do girl has in her jewelry box from grandma, that sort of thing. Then get yourself some gaudy piece of jewelry and be seen everywhere with that, and let that be a reasonably nice magic item too, but something that anyone who wants to kill you will likely smash instead of your phylactery.

You can also go with the Kotchei the Deathless plan and hide your phylactery inside of a turducken of magically nested animals, but that's more for style points than anything else. The more modern plan is to follow the evil overlord list and put it in your safe deposit box.

One of the few smart things Voldemort did was to hide one of his Horcrux's in the Vault at Gringott's. Respectable bankers and their dragons make better guardians than dragons without the respectable bankers.


Legend lore would just tell you.. legends and lore about the person you are Loring about.

it wouldn't necessarily tell you "look on the top of the Mountain of Doom and check the 2nd cave of the left, under the 2nd rock in the back of it".

It would more likely tell you just how wicked (or good) a person it is you are hunting for.

For Discern Location it says:\
To find an object, you must have touched it at least once.

Which is rather unlikely, if we are assuming an intelligent lich.

I mean, assuming the hunter doesn't just research a "locate phylactery" spell to avoid these limitations it seems as though an intelligent lich would really just have to find an uninhabited mountain top, carve a pin hole through the middle about 500 feet in, make a 10 foot square room inside, use stoneshape to plug the pinhole entrance, drop the phylactery off along with a robe, some spare gear and extra spellbooks and leave.

500 feet of stone will block most things and since they have no clue where to look and can't magically look for it specifically (assuming the limitations above), the Phylactery is 100% unable to be found.
A permanent Alarm spell on the 10foot room will tell the owner if anyone does happen to find it and he can Teleport back and lay the smackdown on them.

You can make it alot fancier but that just assumes that someone has a chance at finding it.. and aside from the Miracle/Wish solution I just don't see one.
(and miracle/wish could just as easily be used to bring the Phy to the caster rather than even bother with where its currently located, so traps and such would just be a waste of expense).

-S

Contributor

Selgard wrote:

I mean, assuming the hunter doesn't just research a "locate phylactery" spell to avoid these limitations it seems as though an intelligent lich would really just have to find an uninhabited mountain top, carve a pin hole through the middle about 500 feet in, make a 10 foot square room inside, use stoneshape to plug the pinhole entrance, drop the phylactery off along with a robe, some spare gear and extra spellbooks and leave.

500 feet of stone will block most things and since they have no clue where to look and can't magically look for it specifically (assuming the limitations above), the Phylactery is 100% unable to be found.
A permanent Alarm spell on the 10foot room will tell the owner if anyone does happen to find it and he can Teleport back and lay the smackdown on them.

You can make it alot fancier but that just assumes that someone has a chance at finding it.. and aside from the Miracle/Wish solution I just don't see one.
(and miracle/wish could just as easily be used to bring the Phy to the caster rather than even bother with where its currently located, so traps and such would just be a waste of expense)

With as long as a lich doesn't live, this is a bad idea. Uninhabited mountain peaks can swiftly become inhabited, and even in between, they're convenient spots for flying wizards to land and later teleport to. Then all it takes is one busybody wizard casting Locate Object to find a lost spellbook or robe or any of the other grot the lich has stashed in his mountaintop fallout shelter to find that there's one of these 600 feet down in the stone beneath his toes. And wizards being who they are, every last one of them worth his salt is going to excavate down and find the hidden cache of toys and prizes.


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If your DM honestly said that to you though I think it'd be proper to take the fairly heavy Pathfinder rulebook and beat them with it until they take it back.

I mean, seriously. A guy just randomly happens to land on the mountain your item is in and casts the one spell that would happen to find it and just happens to go down there? that sounds rather.. well.. happen stansical to me. Definately deserving of a good beating.

Even still- simply lining the cave in lead would solve the issue nicely, since it blocks most divinations.

Putting the spellbooks into a small bag of holding would work too.. unless of course the happenstansical mage flying by lost a bag of holding..

but really- if your DM is doing this then just don't hide the phylactery. he has made it clear you can not hide it, so don't bother. Just assume you will be killed and it'll be destroyed no matter what you do.

You can not beat the DM if he wants to have 'happenstance' screw you over.

-S


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Using the craft magic trap rules, what would be worthwhile spells to place on your phylactery?

I was thinking power word: kill with a touch trigger (as many spellcasters and low-level snoops will have less than 100 hp and it has no save) along with either harm or finger of death with an alarm trigger (using true seeing of course). The latter triggers when the victim approaches to within 20 feet (and every round thereafter that there is someone in range), lowering their hit points while the former kills them when they touch it (preferable at reduced hit points) if the finger of death spell didn't already. If the alarm trigger doesn't get the lich's attention on its own, there will also be a normal (albeit permanent) alarm spell placed upon the phylactery.

I would also place a number of delaying/weakening magic trap effects upon it so that once alerted to the intruder, he will be much weakened/trapped by the time I teleport there to see what all the fuss is about.

Contributor

Selgard wrote:

If your DM honestly said that to you though I think it'd be proper to take the fairly heavy Pathfinder rulebook and beat them with it until they take it back.

I mean, seriously. A guy just randomly happens to land on the mountain your item is in and casts the one spell that would happen to find it and just happens to go down there? that sounds rather.. well.. happen stansical to me. Definately deserving of a good beating.

Even still- simply lining the cave in lead would solve the issue nicely, since it blocks most divinations.

You missed the part with me saying "with as long as a lich doesn't live."

It's like the victims serial killers stash out in the wilderness: there's always some random hiker ten or twenty or fifty years later who stumbles on a skull after a badger excavates it to build a new den, or the city expands and someone tries to build a parking lot in the formerly deserted spot the killer thought no one would ever dig.

And with as important as books are to wizards, Locate Object is going to have "book" as one of its top-ranking search parameters.

Having lead foil divination (literally) is fine except when you consider that a Rod of Metal and Mineral Detection can be turned to the "lead" setting and will be by anyone smart enough to look for a lead-lined vault.

I'm not saying that the lich will have their phylactery discovered next Tuesday, or even ten years from now, but a mountain peak is prime enough real estate that eventually someone will want to stick a castle there and they'll find the lich's bunker when they try to build a wine cellar, if not before when they're doing the architectural survey. And in a magical universe, anyone who doesn't include Legend Lore as part of an architectural survey is a ditz.


In one of the old D&D arcade games, the lich carries his phylactery(an orb)in his hand. Nobody would ever think to look there.


Yar!

Selgard wrote:
Legend lore would just tell you.. legends and lore about the person you are Loring about ... and aside from the Miracle/Wish solution I just don't see one.

The point of legend lore is not a one time shot bit of obscure info to be forgotten. It's supposed to be used patiently, many times, to gain clues that you would never have known otherwise.

example:
1st casting: We just destroyed the body of the lich known as "the many faced". Where could his phylactery be?

A: the one of many faces, known by many names, feared by many nations, left naught living in his wake, but evil lingers like a lead weight, and his soul starves for more victimes of his vile lust.

so, it could be a non-living object like a rock, perhaps encased in lead, perhaps close to an area he once ravaged but still has civiization nearby.

2nd casting: What are the names/faces of the lich known as the many faced

A: Many were the plagues on undead that defaced the realms. Wulgrathos was one leader of death, marked by blue fire and robes of venomous ire. Sernachock was another, slayer of the sons and sisters of the sunken sun. Morloch from the east came and razed the mothers grain. Time passes between each, yet none were slain by heroes hands... were they infact the one and the same, in different lands?

Now take local knowledge and historical research to increase knowledge on each of those names and myths.

3rd - 8th or more castings: asking info/legends on each individual revealed name, known paths they travels, known events they partook in, increasing your base of details, even finding out which of those events are tied to a location that still exists or that has been repopulated, etc, continue casting and doing researched based on newer and more detailed reveals, maybe even check out some of the places. perhaps in the double digits of casting legen lore, you discover that one of the lich-personalities was known to carry around a hallow lead sphere! suddenly tying into the first legen lore you cast, awesome! a lead. Legend lore (now with accurate names and discriptions or various details and locations) to discover more secrets, last known sitings, resting places, when it was last seen with the device, any legends about places visited between the sighting with and without the object, etc.

Eventually, with patience, some problem solving, lots of research based on at first obscure pieces of info, extrapolated and detailed with further study and divinations, and more patience, you'd be able to find out where something is likely to be that you've never seen before but know must exist.

Now say your a smart multi-personality lich, and created multiple fake hiding spots you say? Well, legend says that this location is a ruse, and this other one is the real source of evil, further proven by recent abnormal activity in the area. A lead!

now, I'm not saying that this is the be all and end all of ways it will pane out. But other than using miracle or wish, there really isn't a one shot quick answer. There IS however a way to do it without having to use a miracle / wish. It just takes time and patience (and more than one casting of a spell).


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

"I wish for Sernachock's phylactery to teleport directly to my waiting hands."

*Phylactery magically appears in wizard's grasp. Wizard drops to the ground as the phylactery rolls out of his cold dead hands.*

Gotta watch out for those magical traps...

Sczarni

i would hide it in a kinds crown. that way no one would ever even guess to look there


Legend lore isn't an ask/answer spell.

You cast it, and it tells yuo legends about the item or person you are casting about.

The spells that are ask/answer are of the yes/no variety.
You could yes/no probably if given enough time, s ure..

but not within the 10 day time frame for him to respawn.

Respawn and move it.

It is true that your hideout might eventually be found by happenstance some decades down the road but that is true of every single idea. Anytime you hide it any place but on your person you run the risk of it being found incidentally. The only foolproof way to hide it would involve things not currently in the rules. Such as a permanent Magnificent Mansion spell that is also hidden by non-detection type spells so no one could even see the entrance.

Feasible? sure. In the rules currently? not really. It would put the item on a different plane though that only the caster had access to, as per the spell. If i was to hide it, that is probably the route I would use to do so simply because it is fairly easy and extemely hard to foil.
(as a player, anyway. if i was DM and it was a critter I wouldn't do that.. the point of a villain is to be defeated afterall)

-S


While were talking about phylactery.

Anyone every thought of just creating Gods using the same idea.

Except instead of having the undead type have the Construceted Type.

This would both allow gods to be immortal (( dont grow old, and if distroyed they return back to phyical form )).

While at the same time allow gods to be distroyed (( hunt down the gods rune weapon/item/artifact... find a way to destroy it... then the god is now vunerable to being destory permanently )).


Quote:
Legend lore isn't an ask/answer spell.

replace ask with goal intended by the casting / what your researching. replace answer with the legends discovered.

Quote:

The spells that are ask/answer are of the yes/no variety.

You could yes/no probably if given enough time, s ure..

true, the key is patience, so that eventually you can ask "is this liches phylactery located here? yes or no. however, Divination although it can give yes/no answers, it can also be a simple short phrase, or it might take the form of a cryptic rhyme or omen. That is more than yes/no only. Just pointing out that with enough time, patience, and multiple castings, you can find stuff out.

Quote:
but not within the 10 day time frame for him to respawn.

That's why you do your homework first. Find out everything, THEN go lich hunting. ^_^


Change the hardness of a stone so that it becomes nigh unbreakable.

Build a house, using the stone as part of the construction.

Burn the house down.

Let someone find the ruins and cart the stone away.

Now it is forever invisible, part of a new structure or somesuch. Being nearly unbreakable, it would likely be just mortered to some other stones, like in a wall or something.

Take Spell mastery so you can teleport to your secret chanbers holding alt magic items and spell books.


Everyone keeps bringing up harsh environments like the moon or lava but I don't believe this has been mentioned yet.

Build yourself a castle, tomb, tower, or what have you on the Negative Energy Plane. Create several simulacrums of yourself to guard your phylactery. Order simulacrums to hold actions appropriate to their level (if you're an 18th-20th level caster they can hold fifth level spells).

If you can get away with 5th level spells on your simulacrums keep the phylactery in a 'Secret Chest' and order one of the simulacrums to cast Secret Chest on the box at the first sign of trouble. Have another simulacrum ready with a Sending spell.

Have each simulacrum bust out quickened Mirror Images. By the time the lich arrives the room should be full of simulacrums and images that look just like him (assuming he's able to show up of course). If the lich can't make it at least the phylactery has been moved to the Ethereal Plane (the simulacrum with the secret chest should destroy the replica on his second action).

The room should be heavily trapped of course, Lightning and Cold spells work good since your simulacrums should be immune to them. Some means of dispelling or countering whatever planar protection the trespassers are using would be good too, either through the simulacrums, traps, or as the lich's personal actions once he arrives.

Granted the above means your phylactery will be 'lost' on the Ethereal Plane but you'll still reform in your Secret Chest when you die, allowing you to recover the phylactery then.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I once had a lich enchant a very powerful sword as his Phylactery. Of course the melee combatants wanted to use it,and since it was magical already, no one guess. But they did disentegrae an orb of scrying, a large crystal orb the lich was prepping to become another orb. and a large chunk of the rest of the treasure.

(Of course the Lich possessed the thief who claimed the sword later <eg>)


Also simulacrums and Refuge can be a good way to get yourself to your phylactery if it's in trouble. Though I don't think it would work with the Negative Energy plane stuff above (it's conjuration/teleportation so no extraplanar movement right?) and I'm to lazy to double check.


Tim Statler wrote:

I once had a lich enchant a very powerful sword as his Phylactery. Of course the melee combatants wanted to use it,and since it was magical already, no one guess. But they did disentegrae an orb of scrying, a large crystal orb the lich was prepping to become another orb. and a large chunk of the rest of the treasure.

(Of course the Lich possessed the thief who claimed the sword later <eg>)

yeah, they keep the sword, until one of them wonders why you keep reappearing next to them.

I wonder, did the sword do damage to the lich if used against him?

Liberty's Edge

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
One of the few smart things Voldemort did was to hide one of his Horcrux's in the Vault at Gringott's. Respectable bankers and their dragons make better guardians than dragons without the respectable bankers.

the one and only thing that got me interested (relatively) to HP series... the one and trully smart thing that Voldermort did was diving his soul in 7 different philacteries... everyone with protections that would kill would-be destroyers :D


A lot of these ideas are hilarious and creative. I especially like the suggestion to hide it as a symbol of some good deity.

What about hiding it in a pocket on the elemental plane of earth?


Death Blinder wrote:

A lot of these ideas are hilarious and creative. I especially like the suggestion to hide it as a symbol of some good deity.

What about hiding it in a pocket on the elemental plane of earth?

If your using Planescape planes, I much prefer the Void.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Caineach wrote:
Tim Statler wrote:

I once had a lich enchant a very powerful sword as his Phylactery. Of course the melee combatants wanted to use it,and since it was magical already, no one guess. But they did disentegrae an orb of scrying, a large crystal orb the lich was prepping to become another orb. and a large chunk of the rest of the treasure.

(Of course the Lich possessed the thief who claimed the sword later <eg>)

yeah, they keep the sword, until one of them wonders why you keep reappearing next to them.

I wonder, did the sword do damage to the lich if used against him?

yes, it was a regular magic sword.

The fun part was to figure out where the real Phylactery was, the Cleric used a spell to ask yes/no questions of their god (I can't remember teh name) The figured it out with out the thief around then went to ask the theif to see the sword.

Possessed theif goes to attack the cleric. everyone rolls perception for suprise. Only cleric is suprised. before theif can attack, sorcerer cast disentegrate on the sword. Sword is dusted. Next round cleric rolls init and gets VERY bottom of the list. Thief is KOed before the cleric can do anything.


By the way, there's a problem with the idea of "make it fireproof and drop it in a lake of lava" (aside from the fact that, by the time a PC is likely to go up against a lich, lava is easy to negate): Lichs are not immune to fire, or even resistant to fire. Thus, the lich's body will never completely reform as long as its phylactery is submerged in lava.

That actually makes it a good way to get rid of a lich without killing him, amusingly.


Personaly, i like the idea of the negative energy plane. The place heals undead, so it makes a great place to have a hideout.

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