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I was thinking of going lich with my sorceress witch sometime in the near future.
I was hoping we could make a thread in which we brainstorm creative methods of hiding one's phylactery from one's enemies.
Also, what are the in-game implications of a player character becoming a lich? Unlike D&D, I don't suddenly gain a LA that stalls my level progression. Do I have to wait for the PCs to catch up in some fashion? Or do I resume leveling up as normal?
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I was thinking of going lich with my sorceress witch sometime in the near future.
I was hoping we could make a thread in which we brainstorm creative methods of hiding one's phylactery from one's enemies.
Also, what are the in-game implications of a player character becoming a lich? Unlike D&D, I don't suddenly gain a LA that stalls my level progression. Do I have to wait for the PCs to catch up in some fashion? Or do I resume leveling up as normal?
Is she by chance Callistrian? I know.... I'm sick. :/
Bury it on the moon. Liches have no trouble with vacuum. Most adventurers, however...
Bury it on the moon. Liches have no trouble with vacuum. Most adventurers, however...
Decent idea, but what if your world dosn't even have a moon?
I always figured if you were a lich, you were a high level spellcaster. So, hide it in a personal demi-plane that only you have a focus to reach. Don't have to worry about adventurers finding it if its in a reality they dont even know exists.
In a pile of 10,000 identically constructed empty boxes.
Level up as a lich:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a
You're welcome. ;)
As for the phylactery:
One idea I love, though probably not that big a deal in D&D, is filling an undead lair with halon. Or some other nonbreathable atmosphere.
(Ok, the idea works better in modern day games)
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I like pocket planes the size of a coffin. The only things there are the said coffin prepared with a persistent gentle repose, a corpse of the lich's race and the phylactery itself in a false bottom.
Enjoy teleporting or plane shifting into a plane the size of a coffin, which is already full. :P
I was thinking of going lich with my sorceress witch sometime in the near future.
I was hoping we could make a thread in which we brainstorm creative methods of hiding one's phylactery from one's enemies.
Also, what are the in-game implications of a player character becoming a lich? Unlike D&D, I don't suddenly gain a LA that stalls my level progression. Do I have to wait for the PCs to catch up in some fashion? Or do I resume leveling up as normal?
Well, you have to keep a few things in mind:
A.) You don't want people scrying on/for it. Duh.
B.) You re-form near it if you 'die'. Meaning you need it to be somewhere WITH room for you to re-form.
So you scry-proof it and have it in a hidden chamber, somewhere. But where? Where not to put it is probably more important.
NOT in anywhere anyone would go adventuring. No ruined temples, dungeons, sewers, etcetera.
NOT behind a secret door, no matter how trapped/well hidden. Build it, SEAL IT, hide it. You don't need to breathe, you can teleport (right? right?) out.
NOT where anyone saw you hide it. Not even if you kill them afterwards. Do it YOURSELF, just YOU. If you can, do it while invisible or screened behind illusions. You cannot be paranoid enough with this.
Of course, this isn't cool. For cool, try these:
Form an undead worshipping cult in a hidden valley that guards your phylactery. Your 'visits' are cause for religious celebration. Just make sure your actual phylactery is well hidden somewhere near the expensive, gaudy, heavily trapped fake phylactery they worship. And make sure the temple collapses if the decoy is touched, while your real phylactery survives in its adamantine lockbox. You can dig it out later.
Ensconce your phylactery inside the biggest, baddest construct you can find/purchase/make. Hide it somewhere.
Squirrel your phylactery inside some religious/royal regalia that only gets trotted out once or twice a century, and sits in a vault the rest of the time. Let someone else pay for the defenses - the chances of it being disturbed while you re-form is small (but non-zero, have contingencies in place).
Construct the biggest fake pearl in existence. Hollow it out and insert phylactery. Make sure there's enough room inside for you to re-form and teleport out. Give said pearl to the biggest, meanest monster you can find (dragon) as tribute. This trick works for anything too valuable to break open/apart. Bonus points if you can do it with a nigh-indestructible artifact.
Surround it in anti-magic fields, or if your GM allows, use lead sheeting to block divinations.
Surround it in anti-magic fields, or if your GM allows, use lead sheeting to block divinations.
Does a phylactery still work in an antimagic field?
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!
Books don't mind vacuum!
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!Books don't mind vacuum!
if its hard vacuum, some do. the organic paper would crumble. Metal pages would work better. The reason for my post though is some people were talking about hiding it in a room barely large enough for the lich to reform in. Gotta leave room for gear.
Personaly in one campaign where i did become a lich (mystic theurge) i designed a small lab with spare gear and item crafting supplies to hide my phylactery in. That way i could start re-arming immediatly.
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!
I actually did this to an enemy lich once. Found his "tomb" and turned his spellbook to ash. Didn't even bother with the phylactery. To my knowledge, the poor sap is still rotting there.
In a pile of 10,000 identically constructed empty boxes.
That wouldnt fool a detect magic spell, unless you went to the trouble of using magic aura on every box! And that still wouldnt stop the adventurers from nuking the room(ive had a number of players that would go for that option first anyway...)
And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!I actually did this to an enemy lich once. Found his "tomb" and turned his spellbook to ash. Didn't even bother with the phylactery. To my knowledge, the poor sap is still rotting there.
How did you get in that the lich couldnt use to get out? teleport?
Simplest way to protect one's phylactery is to hide it in plain sight, say, inside of a mundane (but very valuable) object d'art. Give it to a noble family.
When you get snuffed, you reform with ready access to vast wealth and almost-instant mini-onions.
How did you get in that the lich couldnt use to get out? teleport?And I know your sorcerer wouldnt have this problem, but a wizard lich also needs to have a spellbook hidden with his phylactery. It dosent help much to reform inside your adamantine bunker with no air and no door, if you cant prep a teleport spell to get back out!I actually did this to an enemy lich once. Found his "tomb" and turned his spellbook to ash. Didn't even bother with the phylactery. To my knowledge, the poor sap is still rotting there.
Dimension Door? Ethereal Jaunt? Some spell?
Make it something completely improbable - like a holy symbol of some good god. Cast an assload of anti-divination, anti-detection spells on it and hide it in a church of the correct god.
Why bother with anything mundane? If you're a high-level mage (particularly a Cleric), cast Plane Shift and offer your phylactery to your dark god. You're powerful for her to care. Sure, it's a major degree of hold over you, but if you're on her side, she's the absolute most powerful guardian you could possibly ask for.
I think the conclusion here is that there is no way to completely protect your phylactery from determined adventurers. Every spell you could use, they could learn themselves.
what if you made a natural formation into your phylactery? it dosnent have to be a box or ring or other "object" Why not turn an entire mountain into your phylactery? Or the entire planet? Lets see the adventurers try to destroy that!
Yar!
I enjoyed what (the second) Wulgreth did in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy (FR), as he turned the Karsestone (the heart of the fallen archwizard Karsus who stole the power of the former god of magic, Mystril) into his phylactery. A full blown artifact that is pure heavy-magic (magic so concentrated/thick that it takes physical liquid and solid shape, combinig weave with shadow-weave) and could only be conceivable destroyed by using it to free an ancient and powerful evil (the shade enclave) from their entrapment, returning them to reclaim their thousand year old empire (of course, even that didn't actually destroy it, merely transported it into shades hands).
However, that's a bit much for a PC to accomplish I think. Perhaps something that the good guys would be loath to destroy. Powerful symbols work well. Say, the crown of a local, peaceful king? Perhaps his personal, ornamental sword. Perhaps his actual throne.
...or perhaps inside the alter of a small perish (I say small so that they're less likely to be target of religious conflict, and they'd also be less likely to have high level priests able to detect the evil hiding in their midst).
Unfortunately, non-detection and other divination blocking magic cannot be made permanent. Lead containers however are great for blocking divinations. Inside a lead box inside a trap filled maze of a demiplane accessible only via the outlands at a specific location and time. (open for a one minute period once every 10 years, teleport only, no visual signs, perhaps the entrance point is hidden inside solid granite?)
Though, if you go lich as soon as you can, something simpler would be better for starters, and you can build up as you get more powerful.
hmmm, I had a thought.
Step 1: Obtain fire immunity.
Step 2: Craft your phylactery of fire immune material (I imagine there are several if you look hard enough.
Step 3: Hide your phylactery deep in a lava pit.
Note: You will want to hide a spellbook somewhere not far from the lava pit, and to take spell mastery for a few essentials (like teleport) so should something happen to the spellbook your still able to get to your layers you have hidden in various places should something happen to the spellbook)
Good way to get your phylactery found by a caster with 9th level spells.
Yar!
I enjoyed what (the second) Wulgreth did in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy (FR), as he turned the Karsestone (the heart of the fallen archwizard Karsus who stole the power of the former god of magic, Mystril) into his phylactery. A full blown artifact that is pure heavy-magic (magic so concentrated/thick that it takes physical liquid and solid shape, combinig weave with shadow-weave) and could only be conceivable destroyed by using it to free an ancient and powerful evil (the shade enclave) from their entrapment, returning them to reclaim their thousand year old empire (of course, even that didn't actually destroy it, merely transported it into shades hands).
Dont the rules for phylacterys say they cant be an existing magic item?
The most devious one I heard was that of making the phylactery a coin, repeated castings of the magical aura suppressing spell *coughNystul'scough* enough to disperse the aura...
Then spend it.
The most devious one I heard was that of making the phylactery a coin, repeated castings of the magical aura suppressing spell *coughNystul'scough* enough to disperse the aura...
Then spend it.
The problem there is that Magic Aura lasts days per level and can't be made permanent.
The problem there is that Magic Aura lasts days per level and can't be made permanent.The most devious one I heard was that of making the phylactery a coin, repeated castings of the magical aura suppressing spell *coughNystul'scough* enough to disperse the aura...
Then spend it.
There are quite a few examples of magic items that do not have a magical aura by precisely that means. Call it a 2 - 4 k gp mark-up on the base price of the phylactery.
Aarrr.
Pathfinder rules... not really.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul. The only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich can rejuvenate after it is killed (see Creating a Lich, below).
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40.
Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.
And, using "craft wonderous item" does not mean you have to build it completely from scratch... you could take an existing something and add magic to it. You can also take an existing magic item and further enchant it. (at least, this is how my group does thing)
*shrugs*
I am rather fond of the idea of teleporting into the tomb of some goodly martyr or hero or some other such thing and hide it there.
Bury it on the moon. Liches have no trouble with vacuum. Most adventurers, however...
bury it on the Undead Atmosphereless moon...Protected by the Lich's apprentice. And have False Phylactery's with a magic aura.
I read about this one a long time ago in Dragon Magazine, and it's still a favorite:
Hunt down the Terrasque and trick it into consuming the focus for a Soul Trap spell. Use that as part of your phylactery. Display it openly on a stand with a nice little plaque.
It comes down to the lesser of two evils. Destroy you and release the Terrasque and it's rampage, or let you reform and keep the Terrasque imprisoned? ... just don't become more threatening than the Terrasque and it shouldn't be a problem :D
Why not just transform a powerful and precious magic item you have into your phylactery, keep it on your person.
who better to be trusted than yourself anyway ^^
I don't think that will leave you any more vulnerable than any other, few people are willing to destroy powerful items they can use or sell anyway. This way you can get a discount for enchanting it if it is your bonded item too.
Yeah, just setting it loose in orbit is probably the simplest way to make it incredibly difficult both to find and to get to.
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I once played in a game where the Phylactery was a Ring & Bracelet combo connected by a chain (think a slave bracelet, AFAIK the Phylactery was the chain itself), it counted as both available ring slots, and acted as both a Ring of Protection +3, and a Ring of Wizardry IV. The mage detected magic, found out what it did, and despite the fact that it radiated a powerful evil aura, wore it. Poor guy was never the same again.
At first I thought to myself "Wow, that was a really dick move." But as time marched on, I came to appreciate the subtlety of the act, and the longer I thought about it, the more I figured that's exactly what a Lich would do, it's sneaky, it's cruel, and it's pretty funny to boot once all is said and done.
Edit: Remco beat me to the general idea. But still, pretty clever eh?
I once played in a game where the Phylactery was a Ring & Bracelet combo connected by a chain (think a slave bracelet, AFAIK the Phylactery was the chain itself), it counted as both available ring slots, and acted as both a Ring of Protection +3, and a Ring of Wizardry IV. The mage detected magic, found out what it did, and despite the fact that it radiated a powerful evil aura, wore it. Poor guy was never the same again.
At first I thought to myself "Wow, that was a really dick move." But as time marched on, I came to appreciate the subtlety of the act, and the longer I thought about it, the more I figured that's exactly what a Lich would do, it's sneaky, it's cruel, and it's pretty funny to boot once all is said and done.
Edit: Remco beat me to the general idea. But still, pretty clever eh?
why thank you, you are not so bad yourself ^_^
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step 1: place phylactery in an iron golem
step 2: place golem in a large bag of holding
step 3: place bag of holding in another golem
step 4: repeat steps 2 and 3 until you run out of golems and bags
step 5: place the last bag in a permanent prismatic sphere in a deep casum in Eox or similarly airless planet(oid)
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step 1: place phylactery in an iron golem
step 2: place golem in a large bag of holding
step 3: place bag of holding in another golem
step 4: repeat steps 2 and 3 until you run out of golems and bags
step 5: place the last bag in a permanent prismatic sphere in a deep casum in Eox or similarly airless planet(oid)
Steps 1-3 would work beautifully. Once you got to step 4, you create one of those inconveniencing tears in the fabric of reality, and are sucked in. Or something like that. Either way, the Lich would end up inside a bag of holding.
step 1: place phylactery in an iron golem
step 2: place golem in a large bag of holding
step 3: place bag of holding in another golem
step 4: repeat steps 2 and 3 until you run out of golems and bags
step 5: place the last bag in a permanent prismatic sphere in a deep casum in Eox or similarly airless planet(oid)
Step 1: Disperse Prismatic Sphere
Step 2: Toss bag of holding in portable hole.Step 3: Run like hell.
Steps 1-3 would work beautifully. Once you got to step 4, you create one of those inconveniencing tears in the fabric of reality, and are sucked in. Or something like that. Either way, the Lich would end up inside a bag of holding.step 1: place phylactery in an iron golem
step 2: place golem in a large bag of holding
step 3: place bag of holding in another golem
step 4: repeat steps 2 and 3 until you run out of golems and bags
step 5: place the last bag in a permanent prismatic sphere in a deep casum in Eox or similarly airless planet(oid)
wow wouldnt it suck to lose your phylactery like that, dumbest lich in history of mankind ^_^
What would i do:
1) make my phylactery into a +5 magic adamintem dagger. To better survie saveing throws and distruction.
2) Us Disintergrate to dig a long mine shaft into a granite mountain. perferable one that is not volcanic, does not have dwarfs, drow, or undergrounds caves in it.
3) build a small 30 x 30 x 30 room. Stocked with spell books ( made of metal or stone)
4) Then cast the following spells:
A): Mage's Private sanctum + Permanency = this will pervent Divination and Scarying attampes to locate.
B): Symbol of Death + Permancency = As an added percaustion.
C): Prismatic Sphere + Permancency = This should keep out any unwanted guests from finding the item by accedent.
5) Place the dagger in a open box, with 5 other +5 Daggers. Placed in the Mage's prive Sanctum with the symbol of death placed on the box, with the prismatic sphere coverint the whole thing.
6) Collapes the mine shaft so there is no way to get to this small 2-3 room dungeon. Rense and Repeat as needed with Mage's Private Sanctum+Permancy for each of the rooms ""laberatory, library, & Walled off room with dagger "", etc.
PS= Extra's
= Stinking cloud + Permanency ="" lich dont breath"
Anyway just some items.
Embroil yourself into politics and world-spanning events.
Set it up so that if you are destroyed, it will bring utter ruin.
Set yourself as a beneficial, charitable, wonderful guy, who is clearly the hand of all that is good in the world. If your nastier urges become a problem, use Wish (or similar) to change your mind/alignment from Evil to Neutral. (It's like therapy, but faster!)
Having Paladins come to your aid to fight off evil demons bent on destroying your phylactery for bonus points.