[Super Genius] How Much Do You Want A Pathfinder Modern Game?


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Kolokotroni wrote:
I just listend to the know direction interview with Stan! on the way in to work this morning. I will have to listen to that podcast more often. I hope it helps get the word out on p20 modern.

Yes, Ryan has put together a really terrific show ... and I was honored to be invited on as a guest.

Speaking of podcasts, though, here is a reminder that the next episode of Super Genius Radio will be webcast LIVE tonight at 5:30 PDT (GMT -8) ... that's just about 3 hours from now.

Stop on by and give us some questions. We promise to at least be entertaining.

http://tinyurl.com/y5tjjly


Stan! wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
I just listend to the know direction interview with Stan! on the way in to work this morning. I will have to listen to that podcast more often. I hope it helps get the word out on p20 modern.

Yes, Ryan has put together a really terrific show ... and I was honored to be invited on as a guest.

Speaking of podcasts, though, here is a reminder that the next episode of Super Genius Radio will be webcast LIVE tonight at 5:30 PDT (GMT -8) ... that's just about 3 hours from now.

Stop on by and give us some questions. We promise to at least be entertaining.

http://tinyurl.com/y5tjjly

Competing with the NFL draft, you know. NOT a genius move. =P But I'll be there.


Didn't read the entire thread, but I would totally be down for an updated D20 Modern and Future system. I would scoop up any quality material that revamps the d20 Modern system, especially the future rules since those are like reverse fantasy in that it still includes fantastical and neat things that PCs can do that they normally wouldn't be able to ever do or see irl. But now I am rambling like an idiot. The point is I would support such an endeavor with my pocketbook. I would also like to see some sort of open beta test go on in order to have all the wrinkles ironed out before the finished product comes around.


DeathCon 00 wrote:
Didn't read the entire thread, but I would totally be down for an updated D20 Modern and Future system. I would scoop up any quality material that revamps the d20 Modern system, especially the future rules since those are like reverse fantasy in that it still includes fantastical and neat things that PCs can do that they normally wouldn't be able to ever do or see irl. But now I am rambling like an idiot. The point is I would support such an endeavor with my pocketbook. I would also like to see some sort of open beta test go on in order to have all the wrinkles ironed out before the finished product comes around.

please contribute to the patronage project found here It obviously doesnt appear it will be getting off the ground, but the total they get here will help the people at super genius determine how to approach the next step (you wont be charged a penny if the project doesnt reach it's goal).

And as a patronage project there will be more then just an open beta, you get access to development forums as a patron and are able to give input directly back to the designers. One of the benefits of a patronage project really, you give the money up front but you are then guaranteed a part in the whole process.

Dark Archive

There is no joy in Paizotown tonight. :-(


I do wonder that the overall goal was too ambitious for a patron funded project. $70000 might be required for a full colour, lavishly illustrated core book but it became clear early on that the project would not attract enough patrons for that level of funding.

$10000-15000 seems like a more realistic target judging by the e20 project I'm involved with as a patron. The goal of that project is a B&W core book.

So, I'd like to urge SGG to re-propose this as a B&W corebook with less illustrations or as a POD colour book. Hopefully, this would be manageable on a more limited budget.

James.


dm4hire wrote:
There is no joy in Paizotown tonight. :-(

*sniff* My iconic and I had plans...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I'm hoping that there is some way to bootstrap this: a scaled-down project that can be leveraged to fund the final full-scale product.

I would personally be willing to contribute at a high level to such a product, with the knowledge that it will serve as a seed for a more ambitious follow-on patronage project.

One thing I noticed about the funding for this project: a very small number of very high-dollar backers made the bulk of the contributions:
18 x $250 = $4,500 (that's half!)
5 x $150 = $750
8 x $100 = $800
53 x $50 = $2650 (less than a third came from $50 donors)
(These numbers don't quite add up because some people pledged a little extra, e.g. $175 instead of $150.)

What I'm trying to illustrate here, is that the contributions were very top-heavy. What these numbers show is is that enthusiasm for this project was very much all-or-nothing: people who were extremely enthusiastic gave as much as they could (whether it was $250 or $50), but people with moderate interest gave nothing.

A $50 contribution is very comparable to a pre-order: it's roughly the price of the final product, and participation as a patron is limited when compared to higher dollar-levels. I think that's why we saw a lot of people say something to the effect of "I want it, but I'm not going to pay to pre-order it." The problem is, to make a project like this successful, you need those moderately interested $50 contributors. That's where the bulk of the money has to come from, because there aren't enough people out there who can afford to pledge $150 or more.

What we need, then, is a way to move people from "I want it, but not enough to pay up-front" to "I want it, and I'm willing to pay up-front for it.

Fortunately, we have a tool we can use to get there: the extremely dedicated fans who already pledged. They've demonstrated that they really want to see this thing get off the ground.

Here's what I suggest: a new round of funding, with a $10,000 target, for a B&W core rulebook with no illustrations, no (or bare-bones) sample setting, minimal example characters (things like iconics and prestige-class examples, but no catalog of NPCs). In short: nothing but the bare rules. When the book is complete, all patrons get hard-copies and pdfs go on sale. Nobody else gets hard copies. The pdfs are the funding mechanism for the next step, and serve as a form of pseudo-patronage: they sell for about $50, with all profits going towards development of the full-fledged $70,000 book with color illustrations and all the other good stuff. When the final book comes out, anybody who bought the B&W pdf or supported the original patronage funding gets a free copy of the book in the mail. You could also add a second round of patronage funding, so people who didn't get in on the ground floor can at least participate in deciding things like sample settings, NPCs, and artwork. That also gives you two revenue streams: people buying the "pdf-plus-final book pre order" and people paying straight into the project to help it get to the next step.


I'll reserve final judgement for when the SGG guys determine how they want to proceed, but the options above don't really entice me.

(I still want my Early 6 Iconic spot reserved until such a proposal is made!)


Brian E. Harris wrote:
I still want my Early 6 Iconic spot reserved until such a proposal is made!

+1

I've not had a chance to listen to the most recent SG radio show, although there seems little point now. :( Hopefully the guys behind this have got something else similar in their minds and we'll get another crack at this.

My main fear at this point is that the failure to get it off the ground at this stage will put off people from giving their cash to another attempt.

Peace,

tfad

Super Genius Games

Fear not P20 Modern fans, we've got some ideas (dare I say Genius Ideas?) we'll be presenting soon. :)

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."


HyrumOWC wrote:

Fear not P20 Modern fans, we've got some ideas (dare I say Genius Ideas?) we'll be presenting soon. :)

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."

Put that degree to work, Hyrum! Feel free to bounce it off your h/c fans in the Yahoo group, of course. :D


Lucas Jung wrote:
<comments>

You actually made some valid points in your suggestion and I had myself thinking about it on a similar process. Consider the hard-cover (soft bound) to be a 'beta' release for us patrons and the PDFs to distribute like you suggested to add to the funding.

There's some things to iron out but there's some good ideas there. But I'm also going to be like Brian ... I want to reserve additional comments until the Geniuses impart their next 'stratergy'. :P

And I'm going to agree with Brian (and tallforadwarf, and I'm sure Koloktroni and Cthulhlou Agresta's thinking the same) -- I want my core iconic slot acknowledged in round two as long as I follow up with the initial pledge.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

One other thing I'll say:

I want to see this project to succeed so badly that I would put up the same amount of money, with no guarantee of ever seeing a finished product: just the promise that SGG will do their best to use that money to build something that might help to garner further funding for a full-fledged book.

Asking people to put up money in this way is asking an awful lot, so I'm sure that most of the other contributors wouldn't be willing to do this, but there might be enough to make something happen.

Dark Archive

Here are my thoughts on what could be done.

I think to garner more support what they should do is run it open alpha testing just like Paizo did, however use the patronage to supplement income during that period and leading into beta. Then during the beta those that supported the patronage get a hard copy of the beta while everyone else still has to play with the PDF. And finally once ready to move on to the final phase they can then use the patronage system to garner preorders for the final with those who supported through the whole run getting some kind of bonus, perhaps an autographed copy.

I think an open beta using this format for a smaller company would help garner a lot more interest, with the patronage definitely helping as best it can. One thing we have seen is that there is definitely interest in it, but as Urizen has mentioned in another thread I think a lot of people want to wait and see what’s going to happen instead of taking the risk with the cash up front. An open alpha/beta would definitely allow for people to get a glimpse under the hood and might ease some of that tension and open some more wallets. Worse that would come out of it if done correctly would be some limited run books that would have some serious collectors value to them. And as Lucas mentions it would also serve as a platform for something later, which might succeed where this one doesn’t if it would fail.


Just wanted to say I'm still here, looking forward to seeing the next step in this project. I have faith in the guys at SGG. I expect they will have a plan b ready soon. They are geniuses after all.


I am going to contribute to this one way or another. Unfortunately I can't cutribute much. I figure about the $50 to $150 depending upon the time that it hits and my finaces at the time.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm definitely interested in helping this project get off the ground, you can count me in.

Dark Archive

Sharoth wrote:
I am going to contribute to this one way or another. Unfortunately I can't cutribute much. I figure about the $50 to $150 depending upon the time that it hits and my finaces at the time.

That's why I think doing different phases of testing would work as I point out. I have no problem contributing $50 now and another 50 later, though I would love to shell out more. I'm just strapped for cash. The multi step process then would let us that had it at almost 10k contribute like we wanted and get rewardes while at least getting the ball rolling.

Scarab Sages

Hey Folks.

I just wanted to let everyone know that we're looking at our options, reading your posts, and working on what our next step will be. I'm guessing we'll have more to say within a week, but that's a guess rather than a schedule or promise.

We are aware there is still lots of interest, and we appreciate that a lot! We also know there are some issues beyond "what's next" for some of our biggest contributors to the last project, and we'll address those too.

Owen K.C. Stephens
SGG

Liberty's Edge

I'm certainly intrigued by this project, but I'm more of a pick up the final book and look it over before I buy kind of person.

This is just my opinion, but maybe a patronage model is not the way to go here? I know companies like Open Design have made such a model work, but I tend to gravitate to more traditional products as a rule. I'm wondering how many other people are out there like me?

I also am not very keen on a BW, fewer illustrations, print on demand product either. Like I said, I really only buy professionally produced, traditionally printed books and I think there are many others out there like this.

I'm also intrigued by the Psionics book Dreamscarred is working on but when I found out it was going to be a PDF only release, I lost interest quickly.

There is nothing wrong with these kinds of products; they are just not for me.

My point to all this is ... maybe a more traditional type of product would generate much more interest. Maybe Super Genius could partner with Paizo or Green Ronin or someone else large enough to back the product?

Anyway, just wanted to comment - good luck on this and, if it does get produced, I will certainly consider picking it up!


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Hey Folks.

I just wanted to let everyone know that we're looking at our options, reading your posts, and working on what our next step will be. I'm guessing we'll have more to say within a week, but that's a guess rather than a schedule or promise.

We are aware there is still lots of interest, and we appreciate that a lot! We also know there are some issues beyond "what's next" for some of our biggest contributors to the last project, and we'll address those too.

Owen K.C. Stephens
SGG

We will be watching and waiting. But one thing, let me recommend whenever you decide on the next phase, start a new thread and keep at it. Too much of the useful information in this thread is buried under 600+ responses. At least half a dozen times people posted here they were interested and how could they contribute AFTER the kickstarter page opened up. How many might have looked, not found the kickstarter link and not asked the question, simply moving on? We can let this thread drift away into the archives and start a new with a thread that starts with all the relavent information (with links and such right in the first post). And then we can go back to talking about it.


Kolokotroni wrote:
We will be watching and waiting. But one thing, let me recommend whenever you decide on the next phase, start a new thread and keep at it. Too much of the useful information in this thread is buried under 600+ responses. At least half a dozen times people posted here they were interested and how could they contribute AFTER the kickstarter page opened up. How many might have looked, not found the kickstarter link and not asked the question, simply moving on? We can let this thread drift away into the archives and start a new with a thread that starts with all the relavent information (with links and such right in the first post). And then we can go back to talking about it.

Actually, Owen did. If you want me to, I can try digging for it in the archives but I'm feeling lazy right now. :D But people just simply kept coming back to this one.


Urizen wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
We will be watching and waiting. But one thing, let me recommend whenever you decide on the next phase, start a new thread and keep at it. Too much of the useful information in this thread is buried under 600+ responses. At least half a dozen times people posted here they were interested and how could they contribute AFTER the kickstarter page opened up. How many might have looked, not found the kickstarter link and not asked the question, simply moving on? We can let this thread drift away into the archives and start a new with a thread that starts with all the relavent information (with links and such right in the first post). And then we can go back to talking about it.
Actually, Owen did. If you want me to, I can try digging for it in the archives but I'm feeling lazy right now. :D But people just simply kept coming back to this one.

He did but i believe it was recommended we continue the general discussion here, that is what I think we need to change next time.


Kolokotroni wrote:
He did but i believe it was recommended we continue the general discussion here, that is what I think we need to change next time.

Good faith versus semantics. To-ma-toe. To-mat-o. :P

On a serious note, I understand what you mean.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Might help if the new thread with the new information (once Owen makes it) gets stickied to help make sure it doesn't slide to the bottom. Not sure if Paizo would do that for a 3rd party, but maybe if asked really nicely.... :)


Supply Gary or Ross with a line of credit for hookers & booze and write it off as cost of business expense. Just don't share it with that Cosmo guy -- he'll bogart it all. :P


Urizen wrote:
Just don't share it with that Cosmo guy -- he'll bogart it all. :P

LMFAO - I always thought Cosmo was a chick! Sorry, Cosmo!

DoD - Kev'

Silver Crusade

Just posting up here stating that I'm incredibly interested in this, still. If there's anyway I can help out, just let me know!


DarkKnightCuron wrote:
Just posting up here stating that I'm incredibly interested in this, still. If there's anyway I can help out, just let me know!

Make sure you keep an eye out then, as we'll surely be hearing for the next phase soon.

Super Genius Games

As I write this we're having a Genius Skype call working out the details of Plan B.... :>

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


So we sat down and looked at the amount of money we'd need, as a rough estimate. And we went over it again, to make sure we were neither shortchanging ourselves, nor asking for unneeded funds. And we came up with figures between...

If for no other reason than to see a more Pathfinder-esque version of Darwin's World produced I'd be in on paying for a Paizo done d20 Modern resource project.


Lucas Jung wrote:

One other thing I'll say:

I want to see this project to succeed so badly that I would put up the same amount of money, with no guarantee of ever seeing a finished product: just the promise that SGG will do their best to use that money to build something that might help to garner further funding for a full-fledged book.

Asking people to put up money in this way is asking an awful lot, so I'm sure that most of the other contributors wouldn't be willing to do this, but there might be enough to make something happen.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and I think you got something here, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions and will still wait for what the Geniuses have to say.


HyrumOWC wrote:

As I write this we're having a Genius Skype call working out the details of Plan B.... :>

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."

Any chance we could get a heads-up on the Yahoo Group in case some of us may want to chime in before you go live with plan B?


Does anyone know who were the first 'six' to gain the iconics slot? I know there's me, Brian, Kolokotroni, Agresta, and TFAD...anyone? Bueller? Geniuses?

TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Aside from Lucas, who else in here reading were $250 contributors? I'm assuming if any of you were one of them, you're bound to be back on board the second go-round, correct?


Urizen wrote:
TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Nope. Sorry!

Peace,

tfad/DoD - Kev


Urizen wrote:

Does anyone know who were the first 'six' to gain the iconics slot? I know there's me, Brian, Kolokotroni, Agresta, and TFAD...anyone? Bueller? Geniuses?

TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Aside from Lucas, who else in here reading were $250 contributors? I'm assuming if any of you were one of them, you're bound to be back on board the second go-round, correct?

I am certainly on board, but what I am willing to contribute will depend on the plan for the product and the potential reward. I jumped in at the 250 level because we were offered something that money normally couldnt buy, an iconic character based on you. I would have to wait and see what the plan is for the next step before i committed to that much money again.


Kolokotroni wrote:
I am certainly on board, but what I am willing to contribute will depend on the plan for the product and the potential reward. I jumped in at the 250 level because we were offered something that money normally couldnt buy, an iconic character based on you. I would have to wait and see what the plan is for the next step before i committed to that much money again.

I don't disagree; I want my iconic too. I'll drop you a note in a bit and explain.


Dance of Dice Games - Kev wrote:
Urizen wrote:
TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Nope. Sorry!

Peace,

tfad/DoD - Kev

You're on the Yahoo SGG Group though, correct?


Urizen wrote:
Dance of Dice Games - Kev wrote:
Urizen wrote:
TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Nope. Sorry!

Peace,

tfad/DoD - Kev

You're on the Yahoo SGG Group though, correct?

yes


Kolokotroni wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Dance of Dice Games - Kev wrote:
Urizen wrote:
TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Nope. Sorry!

Peace,

tfad/DoD - Kev

You're on the Yahoo SGG Group though, correct?
yes

I'll get over there shortly. In the meantime, I dropped you, Brian, and Lou a note on FB to get an opinion.


Kolokotroni wrote:
I jumped in at the 250 level because we were offered something that money normally couldnt buy, an iconic character based on you. I would have to wait and see what the plan is for the next step before i committed to that much money again.

+1

Although, I'm probably still going to be in this, no matter what. I really want to see a new D20 Modern.

And, yeah, I'm on the Yahoo group.

Peace,

DoD - Kev

Silver Crusade

Urizen wrote:

Does anyone know who were the first 'six' to gain the iconics slot? I know there's me, Brian, Kolokotroni, Agresta, and TFAD...anyone? Bueller? Geniuses?

TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Aside from Lucas, who else in here reading were $250 contributors? I'm assuming if any of you were one of them, you're bound to be back on board the second go-round, correct?

I also chipped in at the $250 level. I'm also on the Yahoo Group (as far as I know)


I was one of the six. I'm also on the Yahoo group. I plan to participate with whatever the next version of this project is.

-Mark
Skortched Urf' Studios


mcathro wrote:

I was one of the six. I'm also on the Yahoo group. I plan to participate with whatever the next version of this project is.

-Mark
Skortched Urf' Studios

Ah, you're the one I did not account for. Thanks for identifying. :D

Sovereign Court Contributor

Urizen wrote:

Does anyone know who were the first 'six' to gain the iconics slot? I know there's me, Brian, Kolokotroni, Agresta, and TFAD...anyone? Bueller? Geniuses?

TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Aside from Lucas, who else in here reading were $250 contributors? I'm assuming if any of you were one of them, you're bound to be back on board the second go-round, correct?

Me. Who could forget my transsexual Gnoll?


Louis Agresta wrote:
Urizen wrote:

Does anyone know who were the first 'six' to gain the iconics slot? I know there's me, Brian, Kolokotroni, Agresta, and TFAD...anyone? Bueller? Geniuses?

TFAD, I don't think you're on FB, are you?

Aside from Lucas, who else in here reading were $250 contributors? I'm assuming if any of you were one of them, you're bound to be back on board the second go-round, correct?

Me. Who could forget my transsexual Gnoll?

I didn't forget you and your TS gnoll. ;)


I'd like to see Modern Pathfinder done. One of my favorite games ever played was a Modern zombie game.

Contributor

I just started a new thread which begins with an overview of where the P20 Modern project is. I thought about posting it here, but this thread has gotten so long and unwieldy that it's hard for new people to get into. Still, I thought that I should let the folks who HAVE been following this thread know that the conversation is (hopefully) continuing somewhere else.

I suggest we continue this conversation over on thread with the P20 Modern Project update ... but that's just me.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Stan! wrote:

I just started a new thread which begins with an overview of where the P20 Modern project is. I thought about posting it here, but this thread has gotten so long and unwieldy that it's hard for new people to get into. Still, I thought that I should let the folks who HAVE been following this thread know that the conversation is (hopefully) continuing somewhere else.

I suggest we continue this conversation over on thread with the P20 Modern Project update ... but that's just me.

The URL for the new thread changed for some reason.

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