A couple of feat changes for my gaming group


Homebrew and House Rules


Basically, I'm wanting to mess with/create a few feats for my gaming group. Here is what I have done thus far.

The two-weapon fighting feats are rolled together and look something like this:

Quote:

Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)

You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. When your base attack bonus equals +6, you gain a second attack with the off-hand weapon, albeit at a -5. When your base attack bonus equals +11, you gain a third attack with the off-hand weapon, albeit at a -10.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.

Two weapon defense now works similarly:

Quote:

Two-Weapon Defense (Combat)

You are skilled at defending yourself while dual-wielding.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons, unarmed strikes or a shield), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC. When your base attack bonus equals +6, the shield bonus increases to +2. When your base attack bonus equals +11, the shield bonus equals +3.
When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this shield bonus increases by one.

Another for two weapon fighters, or those who plan on switching between weapon types:

Quote:

Weapon Versatility (Combat)

You are just as skilled with one weapon as you are with the other.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus for a weapon in which you are proficient
Benefit: When wielding another weapon of a similar type (melee or ranged), you may apply the benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization that were taken for a different weapon.
Normal: The benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization only apply for the weapon they were taken for.

With this one, you can wield a longsword and short sword and gain the benefits of (Greater) Weapon Focus/Spec (Longsword) on your short sword. Complete Warrior (I believe) had a series of feats in a similar vein, that gave you the benefits of certain feats for one weapon with another (High Sword, Low Axe was my favorite).

This one is both a change and a combination:

Quote:

Shield Focus (Combat)

You are skilled at deflecting blows with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1. You may also add your shield bonus to your reflex saves.
When a fighter reaches level 8, the bonus increases by one.

I'm not sure if the additional portion (the bit about ref saves) should be the base, unenhanced shield bonus or the full, enhanced shield bonus. This one comes from the iconic image of the fighter blocking the dragon's fire breath with his shield. The mechanics currently don't support this iconic image.

I am also considering rolling Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization into a single feat (leaving Weapon Focus as a separate feat). It would look something like this:

Quote:

Weapon Specialization (Combat)

You have become a master of your weapon.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon. At fighter level 8, you gain an additional +1 to hit with the selected weapon (which stacks with weapon focus). At fighter level 12, the bonus to damage is increased to +4.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

What do you all think?

Sovereign Court

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Mauril wrote:

Two weapon defense now works similarly:

Quote:

Two-Weapon Defense (Combat)

You are skilled at defending yourself while dual-wielding.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons, unarmed strikes or a shield), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC. When your base attack bonus equals +6, the shield bonus increases to +2. When your base attack bonus equals +11, the shield bonus equals +3.
When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this shield bonus increases by one.

Love that TWD scales. Fending off attacks with an off-hand dagger is so iconic, yet the feat RAW is such a dead end.


They're all fairly good houserules. Infact, I've done much the same. One thing I did differently was roll Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon spec into Weapon Focus and base the benefits off BAB. Fighters in turn get something special in that they take Weapon Focus for Weapon Training Groups, rather than single weapons.


Weapon Versatility needed a re-write. Here it is.

Quote:

Weapon Versatility (Combat)

You are just as skilled with one weapon as you are with the other.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus for a weapon in which you are proficient
Benefit: When wielding another weapon of the same weapon group (see fighter weapon training, Pathfinder Roleplaying Game page 56), you may apply the benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization that were taken for a different weapon.
Normal: The benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization only apply for the weapon they were taken for.

I've also added these:

Quote:

Two Weapon Mastery (Combat)

You have become a master of your twin weapons.
Prerequisites: Two Weapon Fighting, Dex 19, BAB +13
Benefit: You take no penalties for dual wielding when you are wielding two weapons of the same type or a double weapon.
Quote:

Einhander (Combat)

Your free hand is not a liability but an asset.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, BAB +1
Benefit: When wielding a single one-handed or light weapon, and your off-hand remains empty, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +2 when your base attack bonus equals +6. It further increases to +3 when your base attack bonus equals +11.


You might want to double the reletive benefits of Einhander to +2, +4, and +6 respectively, remember, a PC using that isn't just giving up 2 weapon fighting (and access to 2 weapon defense) he's also giving up the use of a shield, which in turn could be used for 2 weapon fighting and 2 weapon defense anyway)


kyrt-ryder wrote:
You might want to double the reletive benefits of Einhander to +2, +4, and +6 respectively, remember, a PC using that isn't just giving up 2 weapon fighting (and access to 2 weapon defense) he's also giving up the use of a shield, which in turn could be used for 2 weapon fighting and 2 weapon defense anyway)

Hrm. Good point. (Except my TWD doesn't work if you are using a shield.) I'll modify the feat.

...to this:

Quote:

Einhander (Combat)

Your free hand is not a liability but an asset.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, BAB +1
Benefit: When wielding a single one-handed or light weapon, and your off-hand remains empty, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +4 when your base attack bonus equals +6. It further increases to +6 when your base attack bonus equals +11.


Damn it people! And here I was thinking that perhaps I could go about using this system for TWF

Quote:
Characters who attack with more than one hand, and have none of the feats below, suffer the following penalties: -4/-8 to the first attack, -8/-12 to the second attack, -12/-16 to the third attack, and so on.

Now I'm not sure what to do, and am HIGHLY leaning towards the feats modifications listed.

HOWEVER, I have one problem.. Would this not drastically power up melee classes?


I like the sound of these and more power for melee classes is always a plus. I wouldn't combine Weapon Focus & Specialisation though - have the Focus/Greater Focus as one feat (BAB limited) and the Specialisation/Greater Specialisation as another (Ftr level limited).


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:
HOWEVER, I have one problem.. Would this not drastically power up melee classes?

That is actually the intent. I am not one to say that fighters are useless (especially Pathfinder fighters) but they do begin to lag behind casters after the early-mid levels. This is a simple attempt to close that gap a little. I know they don't give melee types more options, just bigger numbers, but if they can only do one thing, they might as well do it well. Also, this bridges the gap without an entire re-write of the classes.


I think the Weapon Focus/Specialization grouping [as per Fighter class] is a great idea. I shall be using this!


Yeah, i houseruled the Weapon focus and weap. spec as per fighter weapon training, instead of just a single weapon.

Seems logical to me.-


If you're interested, would you mind submitting these to the Pathfinder Database?


I believe that your re-working of the two-weapon fighting feat is too powerful. i understand you are looking for a power increase, i think this is too much.

basically it's like this, there is absolutely no reason a fighter, cleric, barbarian, or any character that is going to be in melee not to take this feat. it's a decision that makes itself for you. 3 extra attacks for the price of one feat.

it's your game do what you want i'm just offering my opinion.

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