Well. I'm looking into making a Mystic Theurge, and while he probably wont learn alot of Cleric spells (since my Wizard level will be 7 for 9th circle spells) he's not going to have many at Caster Level 13... But when my Theurge make's 10 (I'd do it at 5 if the game had stats for more than five levels...) will my caster level be 20 (all levels added up) or 30 from the technical caster level of 17 for my Wizard and 13 for my Cleric? Help please because this is a deal breaker for me... I can't find anything saying that it can't be done in the Core Rulebook.
EDIT: NM the complaint about Cleric spells. I learned that Clerics and learn new spells from they're spellbooks like Wizards. But the question about the Caster Level still remains.
Mmmm... you want to make a Mystic Theurge build.
At level 20 you want it to be Wizard 7/Cleric 3/MT 10 right?
Then your caster level is 17 for wizard and 13 for cleric spells, 9th level arcane spells and 7th level divine.
Caster levels for different spellcasting classes do not stack.
EDIT: NM the complaint about Cleric spells. I learned that Clerics and learn new spells from they're spellbooks like Wizards. But the question about the Caster Level still remains.
Clerics do not learn spells... they can prepare any spell on the cleric list that they can cast.
EDIT: NM the complaint about Cleric spells. I learned that Clerics and learn new spells from they're spellbooks like Wizards. But the question about the Caster Level still remains.
Cleric do not use spellbooks.
Yeah, I mean it's like a spellbook for Clerics. So... that's how spellcaster level works... Hm... A bit disappointing, but it's not so bad.
Yeah, I mean it's like a spellbook for Clerics. So... that's how spellcaster level works... Hm... A bit disappointing, but it's not so bad.
I think I am lost here.
Yeah, I mean it's like a spellbook for Clerics. So... that's how spellcaster level works... Hm... A bit disappointing, but it's not so bad.I think I am lost here.
Maybe he meant spell lists?
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A cleric can memorize any spell listed for clerics in the Spells chapter, even if it's opposed to the caster's alignment (a good cleric casting an Evil descriptor spell).
The Mystic Theurge class specifically says "+1 arcane caster level/+1 divine caster level". I can't see how you could misread this to get a double-dip effect. 10 levels of MT adds +10 to your arcane caster level and +10 to your divine caster level. If you were a wiz 7 clr 3, that's 7+10 and 3+10.
A cleric can memorize any spell listed for clerics in the Spells chapter, even if it's opposed to the caster's alignment (a good cleric casting an Evil descriptor spell).
The Mystic Theurge class specifically says "+1 arcane caster level/+1 divine caster level". I can't see how you could misread this to get a double-dip effect. 10 levels of MT adds +10 to your arcane caster level and +10 to your divine caster level. If you were a wiz 7 clr 3, that's 7+10 and 3+10.
Well, the exact wording says:
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class.This involves more than just caster level, also spells per day. But I get what you meant.
By the looks of it seems that the OP is not very familiar with the rules, hence his request for advice.
Maybe he thought that a cleric 3/Wizard 3 has a caster level of 6.
I can understand his error if he doesn't know that caster levels from different spellcasting classes do not stack.
I think we should be nice to him and avoid derogative comments. ^_^ Please?
Actually, the book is what's confusing. It doesn't say something as simple as "your divine and arcane caster levels are treated separately and are not added together to determine your total caster level".
Actually, the book is what's confusing. It doesn't say something as simple as "your divine and arcane caster levels are treated separately and are not added together to determine your total caster level".
I guess the book assumes the reader would understand those are automatically separate.
In the magic section under caster level
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell. "
So it is in the rules, just takes a little digging. In terms of the mystic theurge itself, it is language that has unfortunately been confusing to people unfamiliar with the class for a long time.
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I had no intetion of sounding derogative, I was being honest. I can't see how that class ability descritption can be interpreted in any other way. The OP was talking about a character he planned to 20th level, so he didn't seem to be that new to the game.
Many, many things in this game and it's spiritual predecessor have very precise and exacting definitions that are used throughout the books. With the Pathfinder Bestiary, it gets even more confusing, since they define dozens of abilities only once in the back of the book instead of repeating them over and over again in each monster's write up. The index and glossary are our friends.
I had no intetion of sounding derogative, I was being honest. I can't see how that class ability descritption can be interpreted in any other way. The OP was talking about a character he planned to 20th level, so he didn't seem to be that new to the game.
My apologies if I sounded patronizing.
Many, many things in this game and it's spiritual predecessor have very precise and exacting definitions that are used throughout the books. With the Pathfinder Bestiary, it gets even more confusing, since they define dozens of abilities only once in the back of the book instead of repeating them over and over again in each monster's write up. The index and glossary are our friends.
I couldn't agree more.
Actually, the book is what's confusing. It doesn't say something as simple as "your divine and arcane caster levels are treated separately and are not added together to determine your total caster level".
You're right, the book doesn't take too many pains to point this out explicitly, but it is true nonetheless.
However, you might ask about using "Magic Rating" - a system of adding caster levels like you were thinking initially. It's from the Unearthed Arcana, but you can find it fully described at www.d20srd.org (just search for it). Your caster level at Wiz7/Clr3/MTh10 would be 20 (but still 17th for # of spells from wizard, and 13th for spells from cleric.)
Figured I'd borrow this thread rather than posting a new one. Does Mystic Theurge count as a spellcasting class, and/or an arcane or divine spellcasting class? For example, could I take 3 levels of Wizard, 3 levels of Cleric, a single level of Mystic Theurge, then take Loremaster and choose Mystic Theurge as my spellcasting class to raise? What about a Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 1/Rog 3/Arcane Trickster 10? Or a Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 1/Ftr 1/Eldritch Knight 10?
Figured I'd borrow this thread rather than posting a new one. Does Mystic Theurge count as a spellcasting class, and/or an arcane or divine spellcasting class? For example, could I take 3 levels of Wizard, 3 levels of Cleric, a single level of Mystic Theurge, then take Loremaster and choose Mystic Theurge as my spellcasting class to raise? What about a Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 1/Rog 3/Arcane Trickster 10? Or a Wiz 3/Clr 3/MT 1/Ftr 1/Eldritch Knight 10?
No, Mystic Theurge does not count as a spellcasting class. Mystic theurge only lets you advance in existing spellcasting classes (1 divine and 1 arcane which you must select every level).
Also note that the mention of "class" in the Spells per Day table "+1 level of existing class" is literal. A class is a "class" and not a "prestige class".
The rules state, on page 388 CRB:
"This essentially means he adds the level of Mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class AND divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly."
Its the last 4 words that concern me, those last 4 words are making it seem the caster leves for both sides are stacking.
Now while a lot of people are also seemingly quoting page 208 (Caster Level) of the CRB it actually states:
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for MOST spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell."
Now right here it used the word most..not all, leading to suggest some classes in fact dont adhere to this rule. The third paragraph goes on to say:
"In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
So then it begs the question, in the description mentioned at the top (page 388 CRB) do the caster levels stack for the Mystic Theurge as part the class feature mentioned on page 208?
a character who is Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Thuerge 10 is by the way the above sentence is worded a 13th level wizard AND a 13th level cleric (for purposes of spells per day and spells known) AND 26 caster level?
There are a lot of far reaching effects this could have depending on the interpretation.
If the same character but only wiz 3/cleric 3/ MT 2 were to cast a fireball, would it be 5d6 or 10d6 as fireball states its caster level dependent?
So I am curious for a word from the developers about what caster level is a Mystic Theurge considered when casting his/her spells? Is it just one class caster level or both? I have seen a lot of arguments on a lot of threads concerning this. And while it seems OP, its not really, the same example above, if a straight 8th lvl wizard cast the fireball its 8d6, but that 8th lvl wizard also has level 4 spells at his command and getting ready to have 5th at 9th lvl while the Thuerge of the above example just got 3rd level and wont get 4rth for another 2 levels. Its seems to be somewhat of a balance.
Has a developer chimed in on this before and I simply havent seen it?