So we did an arena battle this weekend. Warning for the faint of heart, this is a pre-fight spelled up battle. Spells in effect resist energy(fire, electric, ice, acid) barkskin, bull strength, bear's endurance, cat's grace, freedom of movement, wildshape(medium air elemental), and deathward. The build was a dwarven 1 fighter/9 druid.
Ended up with something like 140 HP(max hp, dwarf, bear's endurance, toughness, favored class) and 40 AC with wild dragonhide plate and wild tower shield, and boosts from the spellups. Really without the level of fighter it would have probably done better, large elemental would have been more powerful, would have lost some AC with a dragonhide breastplate and heavy shield, but a 35 AC full spellcaster is not something to be ashamed of. Would have probably gotten a little back from the elemental shape being a little stronger.
Round one put all enemies except the invisible assassin in a wall of thorns, round two was shillelagh and move into the thorns, round 3 was start dealing 2d6 +7 damage to people trapped in the thorns and they help kill themselves by trying to run away. The fighter on our side bull rushed people into the thorns if they got close to escaping, and our team's red mantis assassin coup de grace'd the invisible assassin.
I just wanted to post this for everyone who thinks the pathfinder druid is terrible :) Everyone in the arena thinks they got beat down by a halfling not an air elemental, +1 for hat of disguise.
For those who were curious the build was
(fighter) toughness
1 blind fight
3 Improved Initiative
5 Power attack
7 Craft Magical Arms and Armor
9 I forget, power attack never got used
Didn't use animal companion, went with weather domain, never used the powers though so we didn't get to test those out.
So we did an arena battle this weekend. Warning for the faint of heart, this is a pre-fight spelled up battle. Spells in effect resist energy(fire, electric, ice, acid) barkskin, bull strength, bear's endurance, cat's grace, freedom of movement, wildshape(medium air elemental), and deathward. The build was a dwarven 1 fighter/9 druid.
Ended up with something like 140 HP(max hp, dwarf, bear's endurance, toughness, favored class) and 40 AC with wild dragonhide plate and wild tower shield, and boosts from the spellups. Really without the level of fighter it would have probably done better, large elemental would have been more powerful, would have lost some AC with a dragonhide breastplate and heavy shield, but a 35 AC full spellcaster is not something to be ashamed of. Would have probably gotten a little back from the elemental shape being a little stronger.Round one put all enemies except the invisible assassin in a wall of thorns, round two was shillelagh and move into the thorns, round 3 was start dealing 2d6 +7 damage to people trapped in the thorns and they help kill themselves by trying to run away. The fighter on our side bull rushed people into the thorns if they got close to escaping, and our team's red mantis assassin coup de grace'd the invisible assassin.
I just wanted to post this for everyone who thinks the pathfinder druid is terrible :) Everyone in the arena thinks they got beat down by a halfling not an air elemental, +1 for hat of disguise.
For those who were curious the build was
(fighter) toughness
1 blind fight
3 Improved Initiative
5 Power attack
7 Craft Magical Arms and Armor
9 I forget, power attack never got used
Didn't use animal companion, went with weather domain, never used the powers though so we didn't get to test those out.
I have not seen the druid mocked. I am currently playing one in Council of Thieves and I am laying the smacketh down.
Just mentioning an arena battle will give the naysayers more reason to doubt you unless they specifically said the druid can't do combat well anymore.
The Druid-hate I saw on these boards was never widespread, but I did see it.
I haven't seen any in awhile now.
Rangers, Barbarians and Monks seem to be the targets as of late.
I have not seen the druid mocked. I am currently playing one in Council of Thieves and I am laying the smacketh down.Just mentioning an arena battle will give the naysayers more reason to doubt you...
Many people thought that since you can't start with a venerable human druid with 4 Str, Dex, and Con and 20 Int, Wis, and Cha then live your life wildshaped as a legendary ape wearing all your magic gear that they were no good for combat anymore. We actually had a lot of fun doing our arena stuff. It was a nice break from the AP we've been running. A lot of people made evil characters which most DM's don't allow in a campaign.
Many people thought that since you can't start with a venerable human druid with 4 Str, Dex, and Con and 20 Int, Wis, and Cha then live your life wildshaped as a legendary ape wearing all your magic gear that they were no good for combat anymore. We actually had a lot of fun doing our arena stuff. It was a nice break from the AP we've been running. A lot of people made evil characters which most DM's don't allow in a campaign.
I have not seen the druid mocked. I am currently playing one in Council of Thieves and I am laying the smacketh down.Just mentioning an arena battle will give the naysayers more reason to doubt you...
So a Full caster with a high mental stat can't do anything in combat?!!!
I have never heard of such nonsense myself. I am kind of glad to have missed it.
Many people thought that since you can't start with a venerable human druid with 4 Str, Dex, and Con and 20 Int, Wis, and Cha then live your life wildshaped as a legendary ape wearing all your magic gear that they were no good for combat anymore. We actually had a lot of fun doing our arena stuff. It was a nice break from the AP we've been running. A lot of people made evil characters which most DM's don't allow in a campaign.
I have not seen the druid mocked. I am currently playing one in Council of Thieves and I am laying the smacketh down.Just mentioning an arena battle will give the naysayers more reason to doubt you...
So a Full caster with a high mental stat can't do anything in combat?!!!
I have never heard of such nonsense myself. I am kind of glad to have missed it.
in 3.5 you took on the physical stats of whatever shape you assumed. So the more monster manuals that came out, the more powerful the druid got. Pathfinder has made it to where you get a set bonus for certain wild shapes/polymorphs, etc. instead of just assuming that physical body, so actually having a STR and Dex stat is necessary if you want to melee effectively. I like the change myself.
The conversation I saw went something like:
"Druids in Pathfinder are now the weakest class with the worst spell list in the game. They are worse than every other class and I can prove it."
Response:
"I would love to see you prove that."
Response:
"Well...you prove to me that they aren't the weakest"
Response:
"Burden of proof buddy."
Response:
"Well I've seen them played and they were really bad."
So I read that and started on my Druid guide the same day. He responded to the guide with a very tongue-in-cheek "Unfortunately Druids still suck LOL"
Guess I didn't prove it ;)
The conversation I saw went something like:
"Druids in Pathfinder are now the weakest class with the worst spell list in the game. They are worse than every other class and I can prove it."
Response:
"I would love to see you prove that."
Response:
"Well...you prove to me that they aren't the weakest"
Response:
"Burden of proof buddy."
Response:
"Well I've seen them played and they were really bad."
So I read that and started on my Druid guide the same day. He responded to the guide with a very tongue-in-cheek "Unfortunately Druids still suck LOL"
Guess I didn't prove it ;)
Hahaha that about sums it up. I really like the new druid. The early access to elementals is fun. Losing unicorns hurts, but that was overpowered at that spell level for multiple reasons. Being able to pick a domain is a great idea, though shooting a small viper at your enemies from a decanter of endless water does have a certain fun factor appeal. I expect when the next beastiary comes out there will be some new plant and animal shapes that make druids even more fun to play. They only thing I would have asked for would be more options on elementals besides the standard earth/air/fire/water, but that is really more in the elemental body spell than the druid's design. The final beast shape would have been nice for rend as well.
The conversation I saw went something like:
"Druids in Pathfinder are now the weakest class with the worst spell list in the game. They are worse than every other class and I can prove it."
Response:
"I would love to see you prove that."
Response:
"Well...you prove to me that they aren't the weakest"
Response:
"Burden of proof buddy."
Response:
"Well I've seen them played and they were really bad."
So I read that and started on my Druid guide the same day. He responded to the guide with a very tongue-in-cheek "Unfortunately Druids still suck LOL"
Guess I didn't prove it ;)
That guy was saying the same thing recently(about 2 weeks ago) in another thread. I guess he is just unhappy the druid lost its old toys. I statted up a 3.5 druid just before I switched over to pathfinder. It was pretty ridiculous. Oh well, you can't please everyone.
Unfortunately druids still suck lol.
I mean.
Since when do people think druids suck?
You may stir the pot MiB, but there's no way I would buy that you believe that. ;)
Curses. Oh well.
Unfortunately monks still suck lol
Deja vu...
Kidding aside...you read the Monk guide. I agree they are still one of the weaker classes (maybe the weakest right now, but Alchemists are coming soon).
However, is the offensive output that can be achieved with a Monk more than you thought? I was surprised how much damage per round could be achieved.
(Sorry for threadjack)
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Poorly built tanks; Monks aren't terrible at damage, but they are worse; I lead the brigade of ranger/monk/barbarian hate.
As to Druids, I still love them, I'd be suprised if there was ever hate. They are much worse than they were in 3.5, but they needed to not bring in a free fighter to the table; it was like a cleric prebuffed with the Leadership feat (but without cleric access to divine metagamic).
People just wanted them to be like they used to be; stronger tanks that could dump all physical stats because they inherited them in transfomed state.-
Kidding aside...you read the Monk guide. I agree they are still one of the weaker classes (maybe the weakest right now, but Alchemists are coming soon).(Sorry for threadjack)
Are you sure? With Vital Strike and Sticky Bomb they can be decent damage dealers that can inflict conditions like prone (with Force Bomb). Also they have some unique tricks like making Infusions of Transformation to rouges and Ape Companions (turning that AC's BAB from 12 to 20).
I agree they aren't that hot right now, but the official version will come in August and we'll see.
By the way, is it a new guide what I am smelling?
Humbly,
Yawar
PSD: Sorry for blalant threadjack.
Just chiming in to say that yes, indeed Druids do "rock".
But not just the Pathfinder Druid.
Whatever the version.
From my experience they already did in 3.5, but also in AD&D 2nd or even 1st edition.
The concept is fun and multi-faceted, combining good skills (especially in nature), serious combat abilities (even without wild form), spells, healing, a bonus pet, the iconic animal form and beyond all that many very interesting elements for roleplaying.
That is probably why many girls choose this class, not just for the cuteness of the animal things, but for the originality and multiple options of the class. In my experience, girls don't like to play plain vanilla classes.
I like the pathfinder druid. Particularly the changes to the animal companion. Because while some animal companions are still better then others at certain levels, any animal companion will remain relevant through your whole career. I never liked in 3.5 how you pretty much needed to trade up for the bigger badder model every few levels if you wanted your animal companion to be capable of something. So being able to keep the animal you are bonded with through your whole career is a big deal for me.
I definately think its not as comparitively powerful as it was in 3.5, but that to me is not a bad thing.
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I agree, it's not as powerful in 3.5. But I would trade power for simplicity any day. Wild shape was....intimidating...to me. A bit too much bookwork for one class ability. I'm not intimidated by book work, as I've been a GM for half the time I've been playing (what are we on, the good 6 year mark now?), but as a player I don't feel I should have to do that much work for just one ability.
Another thing that's great about druids is you get a bit of bang for your buck. As mentioned before you get a whole host of choices. If you wanna play the beastmaster role (or PrC if your GM allows), the healer, or the bamf, you can certainly fit all these roles easily if you want to. It's almost the bard of divine spellcasting (and I mean that in a complimentary way, because I like bards).
Druids are great, and great for RP as well.