Cavaliers should get inquisitor's tactical feat abilities


Round 1: Cavalier and Oracle


let's face it, cavaliers suck. oaths are stale and silly and the disparity in power between the different orders doesn't help their case. I read about tactical feats that inquisitors have, and it doesn't make the same amount of sense for an inquisitor to have these feats as it would for a cavalier. Why not just give cavaliers tactical bonus feats and abilities to share these feats with allies too? or, instead?

On the subject of 'making sense' for an inquisitor to have tactical feats.. why does someone who only travels with people to avoid notice get feats that help those people? An antisocial view doesn't lend to team play in combat, which is what those feats are for.

However, cavaliers are all about teaming up to do this and that and thus the flavor fits them well. Honestly, cavaliers just sorta suck. I'm never going to use them in my game as they are now, not even for npcs. There's just better ways to go.

The Exchange

Though I don't agree that Cavaliers are as terrible as you're making them sound, I do agree they are probably the weakest (or one of the weakest at any rate) of the 6. I compensated for this in my campaign by allowing them to gain a solo tactics ability and tactical feat every 3 levels like an Inquisitor. Balances things out a lot, and makes Cavalier a little less mount dependent, though that is still where he shines.


I agree. The cavalier should get the tactical feat proression like the inquisitor does. To me, this just seems to fit the concept of the cavalier. This option might even make the cavalier more appealing.


super_radish wrote:


On the subject of 'making sense' for an inquisitor to have tactical feats.. why does someone who only travels with people to avoid notice get feats that help those people? An antisocial view doesn't lend to team play in combat, which is what those feats are for.

While I agree that cavaliers should get some kind of bonus feat progression for tactical feats, in reference to this the way i see it is, because of their solo tactics ability, they're more adept at USING their allies to provide benefits for themselves only. Which doesn't sound like good social behavior to me.

If that ally happens to have knowledge of a similar trick and can use it to his advantage with the inquisitor, that's fine. The inquisitor gets it regardless of their benefits, though.


Jason already said that they will.


super_radish wrote:


On the subject of 'making sense' for an inquisitor to have tactical feats.. why does someone who only travels with people to avoid notice get feats that help those people? An antisocial view doesn't lend to team play in combat, which is what those feats are for.

I don't have the inquisitor write up before me, but as far as I understand the inquisitor solo tactics ability, allow him to use others as if they had the tactical feat to be able to use the feat. They don't provide others the tactical feat. I thinks it's fully in the class concept of using others in order to achieve his task.

As for the cavalier, I agree that he should have access to the tactical feat as they are designed, because he is more likly to work in cooperation with other.


Mordo wrote:
super_radish wrote:


On the subject of 'making sense' for an inquisitor to have tactical feats.. why does someone who only travels with people to avoid notice get feats that help those people? An antisocial view doesn't lend to team play in combat, which is what those feats are for.

I don't have the inquisitor write up before me, but as far as I understand the inquisitor solo tactics ability, allow him to use others as if they had the tactical feat to be able to use the feat. They don't provide others the tactical feat. I thinks it's fully in the class concept of using others in order to achieve his task.

As for the cavalier, I agree that he should have access to the tactical feat as they are designed, because he is more likly to work in cooperation with other.

You are correct about the Inquisitor. I made the point in annother thread that the Cavalier should get the opposite ability. He allows the other person to get the benefitts of his Tactical feats, even if they don't have them. Thus if had the +4 flanking feat and the other person did not, the other person got the +4 while he got the normal +2. I think this is more in line with the Cavalier.

Sovereign Court

super_radish wrote:
let's face it, cavaliers suck.

Have you actually played one, I sure as heck have and I think you are dead wrong.

super_radish wrote:
oaths are stale and silly

I actually do think oaths are currently pretty bad, I never bother with them with my cavalier as their bonuses are weak. I roleplay the oaths but just don't bother with the benefits that mostly come after the fact.

super_radish wrote:
and the disparity in power between the different orders doesn't help their case.

Sort of like the disparity in power between certain schools of magic and certain domains?

super_radish wrote:
I read about tactical feats that inquisitors have, and it doesn't make the same amount of sense for an inquisitor to have these feats as it would for a cavalier. Why not just give cavaliers tactical bonus feats and abilities to share these feats with allies too? or, instead?

Jason has stated on another thread that he intends to do so.

The Exchange

lastknightleft wrote:
Jason has stated on another thread that he intends to do so.

can anyone link this thread? I'm going to be playing a cavalier in our upcoming Legacy of Fire campaign, and the specifics would be good.

Thanks!

Ryn, who thinks aboriginal halfling dog-riders are really cool...

Sovereign Court

I can't find it now, I think it was archived, but it was one of the first threads about the inquisitor when he came out. Basically the thread said

"The inquisitor is better than the cavalier because of the tactical feats, why doesn't the cavalier have tactical feats?"

The response from Jason was something very close to

"How do you know I haven't already incorporated them into the changes I made to the cavalier :)."

Unfortunately as I said, I can't find the thread, so you can either believe or roll a will save to disbelieve me. But I'm being honest that I saw it.


lastknightleft wrote:

I can't find it now, I think it was archived, but it was one of the first threads about the inquisitor when he came out. Basically the thread said

"The inquisitor is better than the cavalier because of the tactical feats, why doesn't the cavalier have tactical feats?"

The response from Jason was something very close to

"How do you know I haven't already incorporated them into the changes I made to the cavalier :)."

Unfortunately as I said, I can't find the thread, so you can either believe or roll a will save to disbelieve me. But I'm being honest that I saw it.

I can confirm this as well. I saw this post too, and it was pretty much straight forwardly saying "yeah, we're doing something like this" in the guise of "How do you know we aren't? :)"

Don't remember what thread, though. But it is likely archived by now.


I also recall seeing him say this as well. Which I think is a good thing to add, can't wait to see more of such feats

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Let me go ahead and restate this...

The tactical feats will be part of the new Cavalier. The details will leak when the class is re-released...

Until then, hold the course.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Dark Archive

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The tactical feats will be part of the new Cavalier. The details will leak when the class is re-released...

Until then, hold the course.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

How about the Banner-ability? On its own it's rather weak, but as some posters have already suggested, it could be expanded to work a bit like the different types of the paladin's Aura or the inquisitor's Judgement('Banner of Courage', 'Banner of Vengeance', 'Banner of Mobility' etcetera - only with better names) and affect all his allies? Just a thought, but I definitely think this ability would suit the class better than Oaths (a high-level cavalier would display several banners at the same time).

Sovereign Court

Asgetrion wrote:
(a high-level cavalier would display several banners at the same time).

Oh god no, please, I don't mind one banner having multiple effects, but I definitely don't want to have 3-4 flags flying around my character. One banner with multiple effects fine, several banners doing different things, silly. I don't want to call high level cavaliers Six Flags Varisia, or Six Flags Cheliax.

Just out of curiosity Jason (and thank you for re-confirming) is that re-release going to be for playtest or the actual release of the players guide?

Dark Archive

lastknightleft wrote:
Asgetrion wrote:
(a high-level cavalier would display several banners at the same time).

Oh god no, please, I don't mind one banner having multiple effects, but I definitely don't want to have 3-4 flags flying around my character. One banner with multiple effects fine, several banners doing different things, silly. I don't want to call high level cavaliers Six Flags Varisia, or Six Flags Cheliax.

Just out of curiosity Jason (and thank you for re-confirming) is that re-release going to be for playtest or the actual release of the players guide?

Well, I could live with that (one banner with multiple effects), although please note that I don't think a banner is usually as large as a flag. Besides -- if I were a cavalier, I would PROUDLY fly several flags of Cheliax at the same time! ;P

The Exchange

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Let me go ahead and restate this...

The tactical feats will be part of the new Cavalier. The details will leak when the class is re-released...

Until then, hold the course.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Thanks Jason, the character that I'm dreaming up is a Dragoon, flank-and-spank build. The tactical feats look very nice for this.

Ryn, who just got a blue post...

Sovereign Court

Asgetrion wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
Asgetrion wrote:
(a high-level cavalier would display several banners at the same time).

Oh god no, please, I don't mind one banner having multiple effects, but I definitely don't want to have 3-4 flags flying around my character. One banner with multiple effects fine, several banners doing different things, silly. I don't want to call high level cavaliers Six Flags Varisia, or Six Flags Cheliax.

Just out of curiosity Jason (and thank you for re-confirming) is that re-release going to be for playtest or the actual release of the players guide?

Well, I could live with that (one banner with multiple effects), although please note that I don't think a banner is usually as large as a flag. Besides -- if I were a cavalier, I would PROUDLY fly several flags of Cheliax at the same time! ;P

Yeah but then it's harder to spread the cavalier over multiple concepts, for example for my cavalier I had him as an arabian horse lord, and he didn't have a banner per say, the "banner" was an elongated horse blanket with his symbol on both sides, because they didn't fly banners. It still worked for the concept, it would be harder if I had to try and explain how he has multiple horse blankets hanging at the same time.

I mean don't get me wrong. for a knight in shining armor it's not that bad an idea, but right now the cavalier can encompass more than that, and I want it to stay that way.


I created a Forest-gnome canine/wolf riding cavalier, for an forum based game.
I had to create a special order as they would laugh themselves to death over the big folk foolishness is the other orders; a challenge was the physical equivalent of a pie in the face, and a BANNER no gnome would be big-nosed enough to claim his own banner. His target wives shortclothes now thats another story, and that kind of thing was the Orders allowed banner. I'm trying to picture that as multipule banners?


Step one: Collect Underpants

Step two: ???

Step Three: Plunder!

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