The following changes are what I'd like to see:
1) Remove the destruction judgment and have the damage bonus apply to every judgment. The inquisitor has worse armor and attack than the Paladin and needs to be able to do some extra damage. With this change he gains more freedom when choosing his judgments.
2) Have judgment be usable 3 times a day + Wisdom modifier or at will. Currently the inquisitor can use his judgment ability as often as a Paladin can use his Smite Evil attack. Although situational, the Paladin's Smite Evil has a lot more power and does not need any charging up.
3) Change his Bane ability so that he chooses the enemy type at the start of the day and it remains active until the end of the day. The Inquisitor's style is all about gathering knowledge about his foes and I think this fits his style more than something he just activates in combat to get a really good damage boost.
4) Replace his tactical feats with something else, possibly something in the vein of Monster Lore.
5) I'm not quite decided yet, but I don't think the Inquisitor needs Medium Armor proficiency.
What are your thought? What changes would you make?
Change Judgement to use the same rounds per day mechanic as rage and bardic music.
EITHER remove the tactical feat/solo tactics, or provide a means that the inquisitor can aid them somewhat. Allowing judgements to apply to the party, or allies within 30 ft., would go a long way towards giving him at least a mini-bard role in the party.
I'd personally go remove any teamwork aspect and give him a means to deal more damage. At this point, a bard and monk are likely to out melee him.
More judgments based on the spell casting aspect to the class.
Possibly one that effective caster level for damage and duration (not to exceed normal maximums).
If there isn't one. I don't remember there being one.
drop spells
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I'm the exact oppossite. If all the classes, I really only care at all about the Inquisitor and the Oracle and I really like the flavor and the concept behind both. Alchemist I could do without forever and the Witch and Summoner I just don't care for (my opinion not the classes design or anything).
A few things I might change for the Inquisitor, (and practically all Divine caster), is some formula to be able to switch out spell lists based on individual belief. In this case, possibly the skills a little too, but not a big deal. Another is maybe to give it a little more martial umph, and a little more solo umph. Otherwise, I really really like what I see. I love the fact that nearly every class feature is Wisdom based, rather than Cha here, Con there, . . . fantastic choice. I like the fact that it does not feel like a variant Bard or Ranger, or Paladin, but it's own class. I like that it gets things at every level, and a lot of them look very nice.
If you drop spells it becomes a fighter-type. Thus, probably, gets d10 HP's and Full BAB but goes to 4+ Skill Points.
Inquisitor kind of billed as a divine bard, not so much for buffing, but for mixing a fairly strong caster with another aspect. In this case swapping buffing for personal combat. If anything, IMO, this relationship is a bit sketchy (in the current implementation) and this aspect needs to be more apparent.
IMO, it'd be a disservice to make it a alignment-less paladin with a slightly different spin.
If you drop spells it becomes a fighter-type. Thus, probably, gets d10 HP's and Full BAB but goes to 4+ Skill Points.
Inquisitor kind of billed as a divine bard, not so much for buffing, but for mixing a fairly strong caster with another aspect. In this case swapping buffing for personal combat. If anything, IMO, this relationship is a bit sketchy (in the current implementation) and this aspect needs to be more apparent.
IMO, it'd be a disservice to make it a alignment-less paladin with a slightly different spin.
I agree, I like spells in the inquisitor and wouldnt want to see them dropped. I want to see more middle of the road (bard progression) casters in the class set. Without spells the inquisitor is too much like the paladin for my tastes.
The inquisitor concept invokes in my mind someone who is not only good at tracking people down, but in persuading them--whether through nice or nasty means. They should get something like bonuses to Intimidate, Bluff, and Diplomacy, or special abilities related to such things. I'm glad they have those abilities as class skills, but it should be more than that.
I also think the class should have more of an urban/civilized area focus--where he can hunt the unfaithful and persuade/convert those who might become faithful in large numbers. This would also keep the class from overlapping too much with the Ranger, who should be more the wilderness expert and/or bounty hunter type.
Overall I think it's a nice class design, but it needs a little more focus--right now it just feels like paladin, cleric, and ranger thrown into a big pot and mixed around a bit. Giving him some more explicit abilities regarding investigation, interrogation, and persuasion would help with this.
I don't like that the class has to take tactical feats. It feels like a cheap way to make you use another feature of the book, and doesn't suit the class well at all--sure, I bet a lot of Inquisitors work in groups or have good leadership abilities, but the flavor of the class strikes me along the lines of Solomon Kane or something--a lone-ish wanderer out to do the works of one's God shouldn't have abilities that always require one to be with someone else to work.
On a silly note, an inquisitor should be able to have a means to appear suddenly somewhere without detection. No one should expect him. :)
The inquisitor concept invokes in my mind someone who is not only good at tracking people down, but in persuading them--whether through nice or nasty means. They should get something like bonuses to Intimidate, Bluff, and Diplomacy, or special abilities related to such things. I'm glad they have those abilities as class skills, but it should be more than that.
I plain forgot about that. I'd think an ability that gives him a bonus on Intimidate and Sense Motive would suit the class very well.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'd like to see the inquisitor get sneak attack instead of the tactical feats. The class seems like an interesting solo choice, and the tactical feats seem to cut against that. Plus, sneak attack is a cool ability and I wish more classes had access to it. I'd rather have a variant bard who could replace his songs with the tactical feats/solo ability - that would seem to fit the bard's shtick of helping others.
I for one have no complains, and until I have play-tested it, I will not ask for anything changed until I have.
I'd like to see the inquisitor get sneak attack instead of the tactical feats. The class seems like an interesting solo choice, and the tactical feats seem to cut against that. Plus, sneak attack is a cool ability and I wish more classes had access to it. I'd rather have a variant bard who could replace his songs with the tactical feats/solo ability - that would seem to fit the bard's shtick of helping others.
I too would like to see sneak attack, but I'm afraid that might just make it too good.
I think i would like to see something based around intimidation and fear. The inquisition was all about fear, and about keeping people's heads down. Everyone knew when they met a member of the inquisition, they were one false move away from a trip to the rack. If you see a holy inquisitor riding you down, you should tremble a bit, and I'd like to see this represented in game terms. A bonus to intimidate and sense motive would be nice (need to interogate those heretics after all). But mostly i'd like to see something done with fear.
I think i would like to see something based around intimidation and fear. The inquisition was all about fear, and about keeping people's heads down. Everyone knew when they met a member of the inquisition, they were one false move away from a trip to the rack. If you see a holy inquisitor riding you down, you should tremble a bit, and I'd like to see this represented in game terms. A bonus to intimidate and sense motive would be nice (need to interogate those heretics after all). But mostly i'd like to see something done with fear.
Wellt he problem is despite the class's name they have nothing to do with real "inquisition..." They're loner monster hunters. I'd love to see a real Inquisitor class stamped from the Warhammer 40k kind of mold...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'd like to see the inquisitor get sneak attack instead of the tactical feats. The class seems like an interesting solo choice, and the tactical feats seem to cut against that. Plus, sneak attack is a cool ability and I wish more classes had access to it. I'd rather have a variant bard who could replace his songs with the tactical feats/solo ability - that would seem to fit the bard's shtick of helping others.I too would like to see sneak attack, but I'm afraid that might just make it too good.
That could be, but there are a lot of ways to calibrate sneak attack. Having it start at 2nd level instead of 1st might be enough, it could be at a slower rate than the rogue (1d6/3 levels instead of 1d6/2 levels), or it could have more limited conditions like the ninja (can only sneak attack if target is denied Dex, not as a result of flanking).
Give 'em Smite. Pick a guy, go to town on him with HOLY/UNHOLY SMITING POWERS, wail until dead. Rinse, repeat.
Failing that, I'd prefer to see some sort of Justice power set up like an inverse Rage - pick debuffs, trigger them on the target, wail on him until he dies. Rinse, repeat. Call it Supernatural and function for (Rage rounds + Wisdom Modifier). Maybe call it "Torment" - certainly Torture is a classic of the Inquisition.
Tactical Feats are a bad way to show off a new feature that should've been with the Cavalier from go. Don't do that. This is a class whose name evokes "Inquisition" - destroying your confidence, beating you down, and holding your head under the water until you talk.
Give them some form of Detect Lies. You're an Inquisitor. Inquisit. (Yes, I know that's not a real word)
Give them some tracking bonuses. Who cares if it's too close to the Ranger? Rangers aren't the be-all end-all of trackers. Heck, make it magical tracking - tag a suspect, tail him through shadows, and find the Den of Iniquity, bust down the door, and go, well, Spanish Inquisition on their collective butts.
Rename Judgement. -Please-. Call it "Faith," "Holy Strength," "Divine Power," whatever, but Judgement is so not the name for something that buffs you. English language + Game synergy = good! Game - English language = gibberish.
Either drop spells, or make their spell list more aggressive. While Inquisitors have a nice spell list, they are not thematic at all, and the new classes are seriously saturated with buffers and self-buffers. Give a little blasting to a class whose name forces to mind images of guys in robes carrying torches around.
Personally, I really like the Inquisitor as it is. Of all the classes, its the one that suprised me the most for what it is, and I like it the most..
I would keep the tactical feats. They do a great job of having the inquisitor exploit his allies for bonuses, which I think is a great addition. I see him as giving commands to his allies so that he can get the glory.
And I love the spell list. Its a great list of utility spells, for when you just need to pull somehting out of nowhere, without making it the primary focus or useless.
I think if its going to be in the front line it should get medium armor. A couple fear abilities would be good, though I think a lot of that comes from the flavor. A bonus to discern lies with sense motive, perhaps requiring them to make an intimidate check, would be cool.
I think if its going to be in the front line it should get medium armor.
Inquisitors are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longbow, shortbow, and the favored weapon of their deity. They are also proficient with light armor, medium armor, and
shields (except tower shields).
Ah, missed that.
Replace evasion with mettle. I think it would fit the class concept better, especially since they have good Fort and Will saves. Other than that, I love it.
drop spells
I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree. Either drop the spells or reduce the number of class abilities they receive. Personally, I'd remove the Judgement powers if you were to keep the spell casting aspect.
However if you keep the Judgements, and drop spell casting, I'd like to see more of them. Say double the daily allotment.
It's a nice concept.
I think i would like to see something based around intimidation and fear. The inquisition was all about fear, and about keeping people's heads down. Everyone knew when they met a member of the inquisition, they were one false move away from a trip to the rack. If you see a holy inquisitor riding you down, you should tremble a bit, and I'd like to see this represented in game terms. A bonus to intimidate and sense motive would be nice (need to interogate those heretics after all). But mostly i'd like to see something done with fear.Wellt he problem is despite the class's name they have nothing to do with real "inquisition..." They're loner monster hunters. I'd love to see a real Inquisitor class stamped from the Warhammer 40k kind of mold...
I am not certain of that. If there was an inquisition in a fantasy setting I could easily see the church sending its holy agents after demons, vampires, and lycans. It is just our point of reference only includes a world in which the greatest danger to the church was heretics, and an inquisition that was inherently villainous. In theory base classes should fit heroic versions of an inquisitor with the possibility of working for a good, or at least not villainous church. In which case I do believe the class's flavor and mechanics is apt.
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This and Summoner are the two classes I feel are most in need of a curbing before they're published.
The inquisitor is just too good. If I was a player trying to decide between playing a cleric, paladin, ranger, bard or rogue, I would just play an inquisitor and get to play all five at once.
Things I would change:
Skills - the class gets 24 of the 35 skills. That's more than the rogue (21,) up to now the king of the skill monkeys. Sure they get two less skill points than the rogue, but an INT 10 human inquisitor could still max out eight skills a level and the inquisitor gets that +3 class skill bonus to some of the best skills in the game. I'd give them a slightly smaller selection of class skills focusing on those skills that aid the most in investigation.
Tactical Feats - Get rid of them and all the related abilities. They just don't feel right for this class. Maybe replace this and Monster Lore with something like the Dark Knowledge ability from the Archivist class in Heroes of Horror, a Monster Lore that scales in power as the inquisitor gains levels.
Spells - If the class is going to have spells, I think the paladin/ranger progression might be a better fit (four levels of spells beginning at 4th level.) Also, less damage and insta-kill spells. The class already gets a bunch of great combat stuff (Judgements, Bane, Exploit Weakness, etc,)does he really need access to spells like Blade Barrier, Circle of Death and Harm? The divinations and buffs fit the investigator/harrier idea behind the class, but I'd leave the fire and brimstone stuff to the clerics, druids and oracles.
Cunning Initiative - I'm on the fence with this one. It isn't that big an issue with me if it stays or goes, but the reason behind the inquisitor having this ability isn't explained well enough for me. If it comes from some sort of spider sense or precognitive ability, I guess I could see the class having something like this. Maybe this could just be a feat with X ranks in sense motive or a minimum WIS requirement? I could imagine a monk, rogue, ranger or even barbarian sporting this ability.
Evasion - I agree with making this the old Mettle ability hexblades and templars get. It makes more sense considering the class' saves and concept. Is Mettle even in the SRD?
Some of these things are probably already set and not up for dispute, but those are my suggestions.
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The following changes are what I'd like to see:
1) Remove the destruction judgment and have the damage bonus apply to every judgment. The inquisitor has worse armor and attack than the Paladin and needs to be able to do some extra damage. With this change he gains more freedom when choosing his judgments.
2) Have judgment be usable 3 times a day + Wisdom modifier or at will. Currently the inquisitor can use his judgment ability as often as a Paladin can use his Smite Evil attack. Although situational, the Paladin's Smite Evil has a lot more power and does not need any charging up.
3) Change his Bane ability so that he chooses the enemy type at the start of the day and it remains active until the end of the day. The Inquisitor's style is all about gathering knowledge about his foes and I think this fits his style more than something he just activates in combat to get a really good damage boost.
4) Replace his tactical feats with something else, possibly something in the vein of Monster Lore.
5) I'm not quite decided yet, but I don't think the Inquisitor needs Medium Armor proficiency.
What are your thought? What changes would you make?
I think part of what people say about it "Not having anything to tie the abilities together" is more from lack of knowledge of history than anything.
Inquisitors (And NO I do not mean the spanish inquisition... even though no one expects them) were often secretive sects in a religious organization. Much like exorcists and other "Dark and gloomy" types.
An inquisitor was tasked with a mission, and he would do so from the shadows so that local governments and, more importantly, the populace at large, were left unaware.
The skillset for this class is ok. I do agree with dropping the tactical feats... not needed. Give them extra feats like a fighter as they are SLAYERS OF EVIL and doing so with feats just makes sense.
Keep the spells. They are in the right here, at least from the perspective of their deity...and as such should have access to that diety's power.
More judgements... One that increases size category maybe? And feats that work with judgements would also be nice.
Paladin = Cleric Fighter combo
Inquisitor = Cleric ROGUE combo.
That should be the basis on how this class is built.
A sneaky cleric...
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I really like the inquisitor. Right now, I think it only needs some fine-tuning to be ready for full-on play. I've got a player chomping at the bit to play one. I entirely agree with the idea that the paladin is a cleric-fighter hybrid, while the inquisitor is a cleric-rogue hybrid. Their judgment ability even lends itself to that idea: a paladin's smite is a one-on-one duel with evil for big bonuses, while judgments are smaller bonuses that let the inquisitor pick his target from round to round.
The big things I think need fixing are: 1) more judgments, 2) the smiting judgment is pretty crappy, and 3) more tactical feats to choose from.
The smiting fix is easy too: counts as magic on round 1, cold iron or silver (pick one) on round 2, alignment on round 3; at 10th level, it's silver *and* cold iron on round 2, and add adamantine on round 3. Voila! ^_^
Jeremy Puckett
I think Jeremy is spot-on. The Inquisitor is fine AS IS, maybe a little fine-tuning on some of the abilities' power, but nothing other than that. The Solo Tactics makes perfect sense to me, as do the Judgments.
I feel the inquisitor needs to lose the domain ability and gain channel energy about half as powerful as the cleric (5d6 damage). I also feel it should lose its tactical feats and give them a small list of martial weapons. I would also change the number of times they gain judgments to something like 1+ wisdom modifier times per day.
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Speaking of Domains, a few are going to need to be augmented for the Inquisitor, if this is kept. Sun, for example, I think is useless to th Inquisitor, but could be cool if it lets them do a 1/day channel (against undead only), or something like that.
All in al, I don't like the Domain class ability, but that is partially because I hate PF Domains in general and partially because it doesn't really seem to go with the character concept of the class, (another tacked on ability not related to the others).
Speaking of Domains, a few are going to need to be augmented for the Inquisitor, if this is kept. Sun, for example, I think is useless to th Inquisitor, but could be cool if it lets them do a 1/day channel (against undead only), or something like that.
All in al, I don't like the Domain class ability, but that is partially because I hate PF Domains in general and partially because it doesn't really seem to go with the character concept of the class, (another tacked on ability not related to the others).
Maybe they just need a limited list of domains, like the druid. Some of the domains grant abilities to augment channel energy, which obviously doesn't apply. (love domains BTW, blows 3.5 domains outta the water!)
After looking at it for some time now,
I really feel that the Inquisitor needs a d10 HD, if not Full BAB as well.
How Judgement works is really not going to make them better combatants than other "Warrior" classes even WITH that change (perhaps offensively better than Paladin vs. non-Evil opponents, but Swift Lay on Hands is a huge survivability thing for Pally's)
Comparatively, Druids (Pathfinder Druids!) get Medium HD/BAB, Wildshaping combat bonuses/utility, Full Animal Companion AND Full Spellcasting. I like the direction of the Inquisitor ("Divine Batman" I would call it), but I think Full BAB/HD would let it do it's job without ABSOLUTELY NEEDING to take Toughness, etc...
Their spells, though great, are a secondary ability, so maxing WIS for DCs and extra Slots is going to be very rare: A combatant class needs STR/DEX/CON and to make use of their Skills effectively they would need INT and/or CHA. So I would imagine most Inquisitors keeping their WIS at the level to gain a bonus spell slot, and even that is impeding combat prowess.
RE: a big Class Skill List, I think the Skill Ranks are just fine as-is: They effectively are second string to Rogues/Rangers as a "Skillful" Class, which is mirrored by their HALF level to Tracking bonus vs. Rangers. (Wizards will have more Ranks likely, but besides Perception/Spellcraft/Knowledges and maybe Tumble, they probably have a better Spell for the job).
Honestly, I want to see the Tactical Feat stuff go away. I don't like the Tactical Feats, and it seems the only class they're really useful for right now is the inquisitor (unless you're in a party with an inquisitor, so you know someone will have a few of the feats). The bonuses just aren't worth two party members having to take the feats along with only functioning in certain situations.
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Honestly, I want to see the Tactical Feat stuff go away. I don't like the Tactical Feats, and it seems the only class they're really useful for right now is the inquisitor (unless you're in a party with an inquisitor, so you know someone will have a few of the feats). The bonuses just aren't worth two party members having to take the feats along with only functioning in certain situations.
They look really good for a group of spellcasters.
Honestly, I want to see the Tactical Feat stuff go away. I don't like the Tactical Feats, and it seems the only class they're really useful for right now is the inquisitor (unless you're in a party with an inquisitor, so you know someone will have a few of the feats). The bonuses just aren't worth two party members having to take the feats along with only functioning in certain situations.
Agreed, I can't see any of my other players choosing to spend feat slots for these just so that my Inquisitor can use his bonus feats.
I would rather see them gain good ol bonus feats.
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I had a playthrough for 2 (tough) encounters in CotCT, "Escape from Old Korvosa." The party consisted of an Inquisitor, Paladin, Cleric, and Alchemist (yes, quite divine heavy). During combat though, there seemed to be a few problems. I felt like I had too many swift actions to use as well as not contributing enough damage to the group. The tactical feats really seemed useless to me. Although I had a little better attack while flanking and +1d6 from the piercing, I feel like if it was a straight 1d6/3 levels sneak attack it would be better. It could even fit in the same progression (3,6,9,12,15,18) to give 6d6 sneak attack throughout the progression.
The last thing I wanted to say was that making the character I felt like there was too much MAD. I felt like I needed Dex (rogueish character and skills), Con, Wis, Str (with no sneak attack I needed damage somehow), and INT (to actually get the skill points). That left me with only Cha as a low stat. Giving SA would actually solve this problem as Str could then be dropped lower, letting a moderate Int and Con and then high Dex and Wis.
have the character's chosen domain's spells, be "bonus spells known" by the inquisitor at the appropriate level.
This would be an alternate way to address my issues (rather than increasing HD/BAB), by making the spellcasting component more powerful.
Agreed, I can't see any of my other players choosing to spend feat slots for these just so that my Inquisitor can use his bonus feats.
So your Rogue, whose Combat abilities already practically require for them to Flank to be effective doesn't think an extra +2 to-hit is worthwhile for a Feat? I take it Weapon Focus isn't on their list either...? (Does said Rogue also not like acting on the Surprise Round, and even taking Full Attacks on the Surprise Round?) But I agree, outside of Rogues, the Tactical Feats don't seem too attractive vs. normal non-Ally-requiring Feats... I don't know if that's the worst thing in the world though, Rogue-focused Feats.
I feel like if it was a straight 1d6/3 levels sneak attack it would be better. It could even fit in the same progression (3,6,9,12,15,18) to give 6d6 sneak attack throughout the progression.
The last thing I wanted to say was that making the character I felt like there was too much MAD.
Giving SA progression (or parallel bonus die tied to Judgement, like Skirmish is same but different) would be another way the current HD/BAB could be made to "work".
And the MAD is a serious issue... The Class feels like it's decent at alot of things, but to actually be relevant in those areas you need to buff up the stats, which is impossible for all 5-6, yet the current abilities don't give enough Class Features to make up for spread-out mediocre-ish stats.
I'm confident it can be addressed though, and I really like the flavor and potential of this class.
I am going back and forth on this one. At 1st read I disliked the tactical feats..then when I reread where inquisitor's use them without the other players needing them..I just can't decide.
I am the same with the spell casting. My 1st thought was like other posters..a Solomon Kane type, where the actual casting of spells just didn't fit. But then..while x-mas shopping..yes..my mind wanders when it needs too..I had the image based around a Kali like goddess..in the monsterous killer of monsters. The character would use exotic weapons like battle poi, spiked chains, and meteor hammers..and the spells would fit right in.
I love the Inquisitor. As they stand currently, they have the knowledge to get a fix on the threats to their ideal, the skills to give them an edge against said monsters, and the spells to assist in the taking down of these threats.. No one class ability of theirs is decisive enough to overshadow or render useless of any of their other capabilities. Add one or two together, and that is where they start to shine. Spell and Judgement, Tactics and Spell, along with the aid of competent complementary party members (like a Monk-- I couldn't resist) and you get something that could tactically tie the major threat in knots.
Two Inquisitors in a party is the stuff that epic tales are made of.
Chalk me up on the list for a repeating crossbow proficiency as well. =)
By far, this is my most favorite class of six. Don't change a thing. You cannot walk up and smite a threat directly, but with some preparation and a willing DM, you could sidle up to a threat and collapse it from the side before it even realizes that the guy with the two-handed weapon was not what they should have been worried about.
Here's hoping the playtest data holds my hopes to be true.
Ok
The only thing i see lacking in the class hit me when I was working on building a 1st level Inquisiter.
As it stands the class seems to favor ranged weapons for one reasion only, all the melee combat feats require a +1 BAB.
My idea, and it would be a small addition, is to give them some ability to take feats upon character creation as if they had a +1 BAB.
Thus allowing someone to take Quick Draw, Power Attack, Weapon Focus... all feats that seem to fit this class..
Insted I was stuck taking point blank and rapid shot, because they require no BAB.