The next AP?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The editorial in the third CoT book mentioned The Jade Regent. Is there any other information available?


Inquiring minds want to know.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Jade Regent has been pushed back indefinitely. When it comes out, though, it will feature

Spoiler:
A trip over the Crown of the World, from Sandpoint, through the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, all the way to Minkai. The story will relate to Ameiko Kaijitsu discovering that her family (and thus her, as the only surviving member of that family) has inherited an important title and she must return to claim it, or something like that.

The soonest we could see this would be February of 2011, and that is only if Paizo can get the necessary support books, like Asian-themed rules and a Tian Xia setting book, out in time.


It must be great being Y8MH...

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Ha! If only I got paid to absorb and regurgitate Pathfinder trivia. Then your statement might be correct.


So...when is Baba Yaga appearing, and will it be before, during, or after the Irrisen AP?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
yoda8myhead wrote:
The soonest we could see this would be February of 2011, and that is only if Paizo can get the necessary support books, like Asian-themed rules and a Tian Xia setting book, out in time.

I still don't get it why people think an "asian-themed rulebook" would be necessary. A setting book with appropriate alternate class features, maybe a few(!) spells and feats, should be absolutely sufficient.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Zaister wrote:
yoda8myhead wrote:
The soonest we could see this would be February of 2011, and that is only if Paizo can get the necessary support books, like Asian-themed rules and a Tian Xia setting book, out in time.
I still don't get it why people think an "asian-themed rulebook" would be necessary. A setting book with appropriate alternate class features, maybe a few(!) spells and feats, should be absolutely sufficient.

I'm just going by what James/Wes said at PaizoCon, GenCon, and in various chat discussions on the issue.

Contributor

yoda8myhead wrote:

Jade Regent has been pushed back indefinitely. When it comes out, though, it will feature

** spoiler omitted **

The soonest we could see this would be February of 2011, and that is only if Paizo can get the necessary support books, like Asian-themed rules and a Tian Xia setting book, out in time.

I'm Wesley Schneider and I approve the truth of this post.


So, Wes is saying Feb 2011 for certain. Great, I'm marking my calendar!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
yoda8myhead wrote:
The soonest we could see this would be February of 2011, and that is only if Paizo can get the necessary support books, like Asian-themed rules and a Tian Xia setting book, out in time.

Are any of these pre-reqs on the editorial radar yet? I know they plot the Paizo schedule ahead a certain amount or is that still too far in the future to tell?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We plot things out years in advance at Paizo. We have, for example, a schedule that lists the Adventure Paths (and many of the support articles for those paths) out to around 2013, in fact.

Yet those schedules remain relatively fluid; they don't get "locked in" until we have to solicit the titles to the book trade, which happens anywhere from 6 to 10 months before the book comes out. (Even THEN books can shift schedule, though.)

In any event, the Jade Regent adventure path is more or less tied to an Asian-Themed book's release. Either that or we try to cover everything that Asia has to offer in the back half of 6 volumes of Pathfinder, which for numerous reasons is a poor idea.

When we nail down the start date for the Jade Regent Adventure Path, folks will know. That date has not arrived yet.


Dang. These official post are getting harder to purposefully misconstrue. Either that or grading finals is making me dumber.


James Jacobs wrote:
In any event, the Jade Regent adventure path is more or less tied to an Asian-Themed book's release.

can that be soon? Please!

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:


In any event, the Jade Regent adventure path is more or less tied to an Asian-Themed book's release. Either that or we try to cover everything that Asia has to offer in the back half of 6 volumes of Pathfinder, which for numerous reasons is a poor idea.

Still while I would love this Jade Regent AP, I'm not too keen on having to buy extra books beyond the Pathfinder RPG/Bestiary/Gamemaster Guide. Those three I see as a necessary investment for the PF RPG.

From the get go it was always stated that everything you would need to succesfully pull off an AP is included in the AP books. The moment I need to buy supplements to get the complete deal for an AP is the moment that in (_my_ opinion) the AP is losing it's attractiveness to me.

Still while it's my opinion I can only guess that I'm not the only one that thinks about it this way. This is probably that fine line that Paizo needs to walk with its AP line.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

I imagine the AP would still include full statblocks for anything outside of core, and the players' guide should provide tips on playing core races/classes in the context of the AP, but if someone wanted to play a samurai or ninja, they could do so using supplemental books from Paizo. It's no different than them including a Summoner NPC in an adventure or a PC running a cavalier after August.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

PandaGaki wrote:

Still while I would love this Jade Regent AP, I'm not too keen on having to buy extra books beyond the Pathfinder RPG/Bestiary/Gamemaster Guide. Those three I see as a necessary investment for the PF RPG.

From the get go it was always stated that everything you would need to succesfully pull off an AP is included in the AP books. The moment I need to buy supplements to get the complete deal for an AP is the moment that in (_my_ opinion) the AP is losing it's attractiveness to me.

Still while it's my opinion I can only guess that I'm not the only one that thinks about it this way. This is probably that fine line that Paizo needs to walk with its AP line.

Fortunately, you won't have to. We've always operated with the assumption that someone running ANY Paizo adventure only has access to the core rulebooks. With the Pathfinder RPG, that means the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and the Pathfinder Bestiary. Even the Gamemastery Guide isn't a core book in this equation.

ANYthing else we put in an adventure will have full stat blocks. That goes for the Jade Regent adventure path as well as any other adventure path. We reprint enough material so that you can play the adventure, but if you want to expand on things or find out more, the support books are there for you.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that an Asia-Themed AP has to come out at the same time our other plans for Asia-themed stuff hit. Even though the CUSTOMER doesn't need all of that stuff, for various reasons we want to release all of that information at the same time.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PandaGaki wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


In any event, the Jade Regent adventure path is more or less tied to an Asian-Themed book's release. Either that or we try to cover everything that Asia has to offer in the back half of 6 volumes of Pathfinder, which for numerous reasons is a poor idea.

Still while I would love this Jade Regent AP, I'm not too keen on having to buy extra books beyond the Pathfinder RPG/Bestiary/Gamemaster Guide. Those three I see as a necessary investment for the PF RPG.

From the get go it was always stated that everything you would need to succesfully pull off an AP is included in the AP books. The moment I need to buy supplements to get the complete deal for an AP is the moment that in (_my_ opinion) the AP is losing it's attractiveness to me.

Still while it's my opinion I can only guess that I'm not the only one that thinks about it this way. This is probably that fine line that Paizo needs to walk with its AP line.

I doubt that you'll need to get the source book, but Paizo probably feels like they need to offer it before putting out the AP. kind of like Dark markets for LoF,Into the Darklands for 2nd Darkness and Guide to Korvosa for CotCT.

Edit: D'oh! or what JJ said..

Paizo Employee Creative Director

And furthermore...

This is why we almost never do any psionic stuff in our products. Because the SRD psionics rules are NOT very portable. A psion character can't be easilly reprinted in an adventure, because his powers work fundamentally differently and are not spells. If we printed a psion NPC, we'd have to reprint all of the rules for how psionics work, how psychic combat functions, and reprint all of his powers and feats.

Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

A big part of Paizo's philosophy with game books, incidentally, is that we want customers to buy books because they WANT them, not because they feel like they NEED them.


James Jacobs wrote:
A big part of Paizo's philosophy with game books, incidentally, is that we want customers to buy books because they WANT them, not because they feel like they NEED them.

Splat books! Splat books! I NEEDz them! *shakes uncontrollably*

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
A big part of Paizo's philosophy with game books, incidentally, is that we want customers to buy books because they WANT them, not because they feel like they NEED them.

Well, there's been a lot of 'wanting your books' on my end, and my players are loving it. They've become very interested in the rules as well as the setting.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Dang. These official post are getting harder to purposefully misconstrue. Either that or grading finals is making me dumber.

It certainly made me dumber, or it at least gave the impression that I was getting dumber as my spelling and grammatical abilities slowly eroded through a vile osmosis.

Liberty's Edge

Well now that we are upon the release of Kingmaker, perhaps it is time to let slip the name of AP8?

Also, if/when Jade Regent comes out I'd much rather it took place 100% in Tian Xia rather than starting in Sandpoint and going across. I prefer to dive headfirst into the deep end.


James Jacobs wrote:
Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.

An old post that I missed, but if this is how it stands, I think I'd rather Paizo NOT do psionics. I understand the reasoning, but to me the fact that psionics worked differently than magic was always a good thing.


James Jacobs wrote:
Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.

You could crib the system used in Arcana Evolved.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.
An old post that I missed, but if this is how it stands, I think I'd rather Paizo NOT do psionics. I understand the reasoning, but to me the fact that psionics worked differently than magic was always a good thing.

Second that....I really don't see how psionics could get any more like magic. If Paizo goes this route it will be the first big mistake (in my opinion) they've made.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

I think a sorcerer bloodline featuring mental powers could be called psion and most folks would not be any wiser.... Perhaps the only special rule is a mental CMB and CMD calculated from mental stats, and some lines for mental combat (to which non-psions should be immune by default, to keep it easy.)

Or something like that.

Stefan


James Jacobs wrote:

And furthermore...

This is why we almost never do any psionic stuff in our products. Because the SRD psionics rules are NOT very portable. A psion character can't be easilly reprinted in an adventure, because his powers work fundamentally differently and are not spells. If we printed a psion NPC, we'd have to reprint all of the rules for how psionics work, how psychic combat functions, and reprint all of his powers and feats.

Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.

+1

Has anyone tried this before? Vancian Psionics?


vagrant-poet wrote:
Has anyone tried this before? Vancian Psionics?

See previous post, re: Arcana Evolved.

Makes the entire process simple by making "psionic" a template that can be applied to any spell. All you have to do is take a feat. Advantage: you don't have to design a separate Psion class. Arcana Evolved went ahead anyway and made a variant of their Witch class a Psychic. So a Psychic Bloodline would work quite well by that model.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Coridan wrote:

Well now that we are upon the release of Kingmaker, perhaps it is time to let slip the name of AP8?

Also, if/when Jade Regent comes out I'd much rather it took place 100% in Tian Xia rather than starting in Sandpoint and going across. I prefer to dive headfirst into the deep end.

We've already announced the next AP after Kingmaker: Serpent's Skull. It's set in the Mwangi more or less.

Liberty's Edge

Stebehil wrote:

I think a sorcerer bloodline featuring mental powers could be called psion and most folks would not be any wiser.... Perhaps the only special rule is a mental CMB and CMD calculated from mental stats, and some lines for mental combat (to which non-psions should be immune by default, to keep it easy.)

Or something like that.

Stefan

That's a really interesting idea. A Psionic Power Bonus (PPB) and Psionic Power Defence (PPD) or something like that.

Hmmm ....

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Coridan wrote:

Well now that we are upon the release of Kingmaker, perhaps it is time to let slip the name of AP8?

Also, if/when Jade Regent comes out I'd much rather it took place 100% in Tian Xia rather than starting in Sandpoint and going across. I prefer to dive headfirst into the deep end.

We've already announced the next AP after Kingmaker: Serpent's Skull. It's set in the Mwangi more or less.

Yes, Serpent's Skull is AP 7 (the August ones will always be an odd number) I said AP8, after Serpent's Skull.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Coridan wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Coridan wrote:

Well now that we are upon the release of Kingmaker, perhaps it is time to let slip the name of AP8?

Also, if/when Jade Regent comes out I'd much rather it took place 100% in Tian Xia rather than starting in Sandpoint and going across. I prefer to dive headfirst into the deep end.

We've already announced the next AP after Kingmaker: Serpent's Skull. It's set in the Mwangi more or less.
Yes, Serpent's Skull is AP 7 (the August ones will always be an odd number) I said AP8, after Serpent's Skull.

Since announcing a new AP tends to overshadow talk on current APs, and since we like to announce things so that the anticipation buildup is more compact and has less of a chance of petering out before the new AP begins... we generally don't announce an AP this early. I suspect we'll announce AP8 in about 4 months, about when the next solicitations go out. Which is about when Paizocon happens.


James Jacobs wrote:

And furthermore...

This is why we almost never do any psionic stuff in our products. Because the SRD psionics rules are NOT very portable. A psion character can't be easilly reprinted in an adventure, because his powers work fundamentally differently and are not spells. If we printed a psion NPC, we'd have to reprint all of the rules for how psionics work, how psychic combat functions, and reprint all of his powers and feats.

Which is, in fact, the #1 reason why I'd want to do a Pathfinder Psionic book with psionics that function more like how spells work (likely using the sorcerer as a model) rather than dovetail into an entirely new point-based system. Otherwise, we'll never be able to use the psionic content in anything beyond the main book.

+1 for me as well.

And I think there's plenty of room for 'difference' and innovation, while still being compatable with Vancian stat-blocks that would be usable by any GM picking up a Pathfinder AP. Which is the whole point, if Psionics have such an entirely different system that you NEED to own the rules expansion for it, it makes it impossible to use it in the APs. If Paizo does Psionics, there should be Psionic NPCs and Monsters usable in APs even if nobody in your gaming group themselves play a Psion. People who say "I don't like that, that's a mistake" without addressing that BASIC fact just aren't at all convincing on why PAIZO should in fact sabotage their own business model like this. If you want variant mechanics, why not write your own game? That's what distinct game systems are for, right?

Hmmm... let's see: Sorceror-like casting... but with Specialist Wizard like slot-costs? Hybrid Spell List w/ Healing type Spells? "Reserve Feat"-like abilities? Free Metamagic Feats as you qualify for them, level-wise? Automatic 0-spell level adjustment Silent Spell? Psion-Monk PrC? Crystal "Psionic Scrolls/ Spellbooks"? I could see bringing back a 2nd-Edition like multi-"Casting Stat" approach, with different Schools of Psions (overlapping multiple Magic Schools?) using different Stats (WIS/CHA/CON?) with differing abilities/spell lists depending on school, if you focus only one one school you only use one Casting Stat, if you spread it around you use multiple ones. Options, Options...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd be suprised if Jade Regent was to start in Feb 2011 seeing as the AP before it is also a Journey style campaign, and Paizo tends to switch up their AP style every 6 issues. That way customers who weren't into one style of AP will come back to try the next style. That said, Jade Regent is an AP that will absolutely require the team's A+ game. Seeing how long people have wanted to see it and are still this excited about it. Finally, the thread's subtopic on psionics. I approve of anything that makes psionic stat-blocks easier to place in official products.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

This is a test of the speculative pathfinder prediction system. This is only a test. Were I really informed on what was coming in the months and years to come, this message would be followed with lawsuits for violating Paizo's NDAs. This is only a test.

Wes ran a Ustalav playtest at PaizoCon and mentioned in a blog post that since then he has begun outlining the region in much more detail. James said in this thread, "We've announced what the two 2010 APs are gonna be (Kingmaker and Serpent's Skull). We have not announced anything for 2011 yet.
Just sayin'."

Additionally, as mentioned in this thread, at least one of the forthcoming Pathfinder Fiction novels will be set in Ustalav, and Sutter mentions in his sidebar in Pathfinder #30 that it would come out "next year." It would be a timely marketing synergy to have a novel by a NY Times bestselling author be released in conjunction with the launch of an adventure path set in the same region.

Therefore, the 8th adventure path will be set in Ustalav.

This has been a test of the speculative pathfinder prediction system. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

I think it'd be neat to see one of the crusader kingdoms (Mendev, Lastwall) get some AP love, perhaps as a good invasion of an evil kingdom and dealing with that, rather than good guys just responding to an evil invasion. Of course, that good invasion could go horribly, terribly wrong... and much adventure ensues.

Also, an AP that went in the Vudra/Jalmeray direction might be a good product to release alongside a psionics book, whenever that product happens, given how that's one of the places psi is established as being popular on Golarion.

Actually, that makes me wonder: Will the eventually forthcoming "Asian-themed" Golarion book be covering ALL of the Asian-ish lands of the east? IME most Oriental Adventures books have heavily favored the Japanese and, to a lesser extent, Chinese tropes. Will India-flavored Vudra and the Polynesia-flavored islands get an equal share of ink?


I like the idea of an asian themed AP starting in 'the west'. It would be nice to see a really 'Marco Polo'/Silk Road themed AP.

Ken


Jason Nelson wrote:
Actually, that makes me wonder: Will the eventually forthcoming "Asian-themed" Golarion book be covering ALL of the Asian-ish lands of the east? IME most Oriental Adventures books have heavily favored the Japanese and, to a lesser extent, Chinese tropes. Will India-flavored Vudra and the Polynesia-flavored islands get an equal share of ink?

I'd love to see various asian themed cultures get covered in similar ways to persian/arabic cultures in the Keleshite empire, but Vudra is not even on the same continent as Minkai. However, Minkai is approx. the furthest away of the Tien nations, so the PC's will have to go through mongolia esque lands, the crater lands, maybe nagajor, etc.

I do beleive paizo has said Tian Xia won't just be one big continent of Chinese/Japanese analogues, but incorporate many asian cultures.

Fingers crossed.


vagrant-poet wrote:

I do beleive paizo has said Tian Xia won't just be one big continent of Chinese/Japanese analogues, but incorporate many asian cultures.

Fingers crossed.

I am with you. I hope there is just that


Yoda, I tried to post about two hours ago, but experienced internet problems. I'm going to say that you and I are neck-in-neck in the great predictions race, and I salute you on your AP detective work. May we both be right.

@ Jason, yeah, I'm really looking forward to having something on the crusader states as well.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tian-Xia includes analogs for fantasy Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, and more.

Not all of those regions will feature in Jade Regent, though.


Thailand? :D

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Thotkhirithon wrote:
Thailand? :D

yup! That too! (I knew I was forgetting at least one region...)


Ka pun krap, Chief!

What's the name of that region?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Thotkhirithon wrote:

Ka pun krap, Chief!

What's the name of that region?

There's no way to know, I'm sure. (AKA it hasn't been officially named yet... but there's a lot f names floating around on page 157 of the PCCS that might get picked up for something somewhere...)

Silver Crusade

I am really glad Asian cultures besides just Japan and China got some love in this setting.

I really need to get that Angkor Wat in Golarion game going someday...


Just put Angkor Wat in the Thai analogue! ;)

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