This seems seriously under-costed as a 1-pt Evolution without any Level Requirements, apparently making a triple attack as a Standard Attack Action easily available from first level (when Pounce isn't available thru SNA until SNA3). Fighters might complain, given Vital Strike isn't even available until much later.
It seems a reasonable and obvious ability to make available at some point, but just the costing and level availability seem a bit dubious to me...???
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Well, you can't always charge. Distance, the movement restrictions, and difficult terrain will limit this ability.
You're also neglecting to incorporate the cost of the other attacks in you analysis. In order for pounce to be useful you need to spend points getting other natural attacks or points/feats on weapon proficiencies and possibly gp on weapons.
Even with the cost, pounce is REALLY good. And the fact is, the attacks are still quite useful without pounce. I'd agree that pounce is a bit undercosted. As are some attacks for that matter. Tentacle needs to cost 2.
Quadruped: Bite, 2xLimb(leg)
+ Claw (1pt) + Claw (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Claw/Claw/Claw/Claw (3pts)
Biped: Claw, Limb(arm), Limb(leg)
+ Bite (1pt) + Tentacle (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Claw/Claw/Tentacle (3pts)
Serpent: Bite, Climb, Tail, Tail Slap
+ Sting (1pt) + Tentacle (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Sting/Slap/Tentacle (3pts)
...Sting should probably specify it either replaces a Tail Slap or requires "it's own" tail, or at least is an "either/or" option with Tail Slap on the same tail, not both.
I saw somebody mention multiple heads/multiple bites... This should be more expensive (all the primary attacks/anything enabling more of them should be more expensive/limited than the secondary attacks) but could be a cool concept too.
What would be any benefit of multiple heads (without bite attacks)?
Bonus to Perception checks? Rolling multiple Perception checks?
wa
I'm not sure if Tentacles are so bad, though they are the cheapest way to get lots of Grab attacks. Perhaps Grab should specifiy a maximum # of attacks it applies to, so you would have to get it multiple times if you wanted 10 Grab Tentacles, for example...?
Rake seems like it should require that YOU actually become grappled as well if you want to Rake something, likewise so you can't just Grapple thing with 10 tentacles and not even suffer Grappled penalties yourself. This possibly should be a rule for the Monster Rake Ability as well, but I don't know if it would apply in every case... Though exceptions could alway be added for specific Monsters, of cousse...???
What would be any benefit of multiple heads (without bite attacks)? Bonus to Perception checks? Rolling multiple Perception checks?
Ettin has +1 head and +4 Perception
Chimera has +2 heads and +2 PerceptionI'd say +4 bonus on perception checks and the ability to take the Breath Weapon, Bite, and Gore evolutions multiple times. Also the ability to talk and chew gum at the same time.
On a side note, I feel like Bite and Gore should be mutually exclusive. Not only can I not think of anything natural that does both (horns are usually on herbivores, wheras a strong bite is a carnivore trait), but how are you supposed to bite someone when your forehead is pressed to them?
Quadruped: Bite, 2xLimb(leg)
+ Claw (1pt) + Claw (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Claw/Claw/Claw/Claw (3pts)Biped: Claw, Limb(arm), Limb(leg)
+ Bite (1pt) + Tentacle (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Claw/Claw/Tentacle (3pts)Serpent: Bite, Climb, Tail, Tail Slap
+ Sting (1pt) + Tentacle (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Sting/Slap/Tentacle (3pts)
Only Quadrupeds can get the pounce evolution.
Only Quadrupeds can get the pounce evolution.
Ak! Of course, I could have saved myself the effort of figuring the other examples... 8-)
This does make me think that special requirement, like base form, or even level, should be highlighted in Bold or a colored background textbox or something to make them 'pop out' when reading quickly.
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Quadruped: Bite, 2xLimb(leg)
+ Claw (1pt) + Claw (1pt) + Pounce (1pt) = Bite/Claw/Claw/Claw/Claw (3pts)I saw somebody mention multiple heads/multiple bites... This should be more expensive (all the primary attacks/anything enabling more of them should be more expensive/limited than the secondary attacks) but could be a cool concept too.
Hey, you know that claws are primary attacks, right?
Jason has said that there was a typo that said that they were secondary attacks
Hey, you know that claws are primary attacks, right?
Jason has said that there was a typo that said that they were secondary attacks[
Yeah, I just saw that actually
(Jason really needs to sticky this stuff if people are supposed to be playtesting it, much less playing in legal PFS games)Claws still conform to that primary-is-more-expensive approach:
they require limbs(arms) vs. tentacles which require nothing.
Only Quadrupeds can get the pounce evolution.
Though I wonder, does it need to be limited to the "Quadruped Base Form", or would just a requirement for 4 legs (2x Limbs:Legs) do the same thing? I don't see it as that unbalancing to allow....????
I think pounce should not be available until at least 7th level. There should also be something done about the number of attacks at lower levels. I don't think its so bad that none of us can use it, but its bad enough that I think less than 50% of us can use it without breaking the game.
In general, I trust my players not to get crazy with the system, so it doesn't bother me too much that it's breakable. I'd rather err on the side of flexibility.
That being said, pounce needs to be a 2 point ability.
As for attacks, I think it needs to be made a bit more uniform that all primary attacks be two points and all secondary attacks be one point. With a creature with the str score an eidolon can potentially get, getting an additional primary attack is a big deal. People have been complaining about gore, but I actually think it's spot on.