|
Okay so yesterday I built myself a non-typical cavalier, He's an arabian lancer, he rides a camel, and he'd be perfect for the legacy of fire campaign one of my players is thinking of trying to run.
Anywho, he's a high dex/high mobility build. at 5th level he has 5 feats, mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge, dodge, mobility. As he levels up he is going vital strike route and wind and lightning stance, so that he can always be charging around on the battlefield and be hard to hit while doing so.
I'm proud to say my first test run was very succesful. Combat started and my lancer was able to charge in for a whopping 3d8 against the winter wolf. In open terrain I would have just continued past him, but unfortunately the patch of phospurescent mushroom in the cave counted as difficult terrain and left me stuck within the beasts reach. It took an AoO and unfortunately no matter how good your ride skill is, when you roll 17-19s on attack rolls and have a +10 to hit it's very hard to match that even with a +13 to ride. So the wolf got it's AoO on my horse. My horse did have the HP to take it though, A normal camel would have been downed, I rolled high for the wolfs damage. So my round come again and because of difficult terrain I can't make a charge or 5'step (stupid mushrooms) so I move out of its threatened area to get a lance attack figuring it's better to get away then try to go toe to toe with it. And wouldn't you know it I roll a 19 on the A friggen oO and I just can't match it with my mounted combat, my horse goes down, but I make the check to soft fall, and draw my sabre (scimitar) and initiate a challenge, this give my allies a boost to hit (order of the cockatrice) which helps them hit and do damage, but the oracle has to heal, the summoner casts haste, and the eidelon does some damage. Next round I lay into it with my scimitar, challange making my attacks worthwile, and the eidelon finishes the monster off.
All in all, I'm quite happy with the cavalier.
Although one thing. Since the horse doesn't get shared spells, which is a huge help to AnCos he should definitely get armor proficiency for free. I houseruled in light armor proficiency so that he could wear a chain shirt barding. Otherwise I would have had one less feat for my mount. And that isn't fair when you see the eidelon get armor for one friggen point, 1 point really? I have to spend a feat, and he's already stronger and all he has to spend is a single friggen point of which he gets 3 at first level? Yeah come to think of it a cavalier should get all AC types if a summoner is getting it for 2 friggen evo points.
The eidelon even has share spell, and doesn't have to spend feats to get things AnCos have to spend points on. Definitely unfair for the cavalier by comparison.
Why would he, cavalier's can't cast spells?
If you took a level of druid, or ranger then I'd say that with druid level stacking, you'd get share spells, but really, its to make a point of the fact that the cavalier is non-magical.
|
|
Why would he, cavalier's can't cast spells?
If you took a level of druid, or ranger then I'd say that with druid level stacking, you'd get share spells, but really, its to make a point of the fact that the cavalier is non-magical.
I'm aware he shouldn't get share spells, he's not a caster, however he SHOULD have something to make up for the lack of share spells because it represents a gap in the power of the class feature in comparison to others.
|
I ran a group through an adventure a few weeks ago and will complete it tomorrow night. They are also level 5 and I included two cavaliers in order to get a feel for possible different styles of cavalier. The first is a half-orc wearing full plate mounted on a warhorse, and the second is a halfling on a riding dog. The half-orc uses a lance and the halfling will be going the mounted archery route.
One thing I noticed is that the half-orc in full plate actually has a worse ride skill due to armor check penalty than the halfling wearing a chain shirt. This worries me because it means the cavalier who wears heavy armor is going to be working pretty hard to make that ride check to avoid damage. Maybe this is less of an issue than I think it will be, we're just getting into the combat part of the adventure tomorrow.
|
|
I ran a group through an adventure a few weeks ago and will complete it tomorrow night. They are also level 5 and I included two cavaliers in order to get a feel for possible different styles of cavalier. The first is a half-orc wearing full plate mounted on a warhorse, and the second is a halfling on a riding dog. The half-orc uses a lance and the halfling will be going the mounted archery route.
One thing I noticed is that the half-orc in full plate actually has a worse ride skill due to armor check penalty than the halfling wearing a chain shirt. This worries me because it means the cavalier who wears heavy armor is going to be working pretty hard to make that ride check to avoid damage. Maybe this is less of an issue than I think it will be, we're just getting into the combat part of the adventure tomorrow.
What I was having a hard time choosing between was a multiclass gnome cavalier/rogue with a high acrobatics skill who would ride his horse, then jump off and tumble into flanking position with his mount, stacking SA with challenge damage. But I went full cavalier for playtest purposes.
|
|
What I was having a hard time choosing between was a multiclass gnome cavalier/rogue with a high acrobatics skill who would ride his horse, then jump off and tumble into flanking position with his mount, stacking SA with challenge damage. But I went full cavalier for playtest purposes.
Yeah for playtest purposes I left the beta classes pure. Oracle of Fire 5, Oracle of Water 5, two Cavalier 5, Bard 5 and Monk 2/Rogue 3 just for silliness.
|
|
Finished up our playtest and it went fairly well. The half-orc cavalier spent the night charging and laying waste to the area. I did come up with some questions related to mounted combat and the cavalier, not sure if this is the right place to post them so let me know if I should put it somewhere else.
Does a cavalier's reach change while mounted? As clarification, would you be treated as the size of your mount when calculating which squares you threaten. Otherwise I would think you could only use reach weapons while mounted.
Can a lance be used one handed while mounted? I assumed so or the whole lance and shield thing wouldn't work very well.
Can a cavalier charge and overrun as part of a ride-by-attack, or do you have to avoid your opponents square(s) while using ride-by-attack?
Also my player found the oath mechanics to be very fluffy, but from a crunch perspective didn't see any real reason to bother with them.
|
|
Finished up our playtest and it went fairly well. The half-orc cavalier spent the night charging and laying waste to the area. I did come up with some questions related to mounted combat and the cavalier, not sure if this is the right place to post them so let me know if I should put it somewhere else.
don't worry about it, the more the merrier.
Does a cavalier's reach change while mounted? As clarification, would you be treated as the size of your mount when calculating which squares you threaten. Otherwise I would think you could only use reach weapons while mounted.
no your reach does not change, but your threatened area starts from the spaces adjacent to your mount, so even though your reach is only 5' its the 5' immeadiately around the horse.
Can a lance be used one handed while mounted? I assumed so or the whole lance and shield thing wouldn't work very well.
yup, it says so in the lances description.
Can a cavalier charge and overrun as part of a ride-by-attack, or do you have to avoid your opponents square(s) while using ride-by-attack?
yes you can. no you don't have to avoid the opponents square.
Also my player found the oath mechanics to be very fluffy, but from a crunch perspective didn't see any real reason to bother with them.
You know what, I felt the exact same way, didn't even bother with them, too weak to bother with and most of them only take effect after what you needed them for was accomplished.
|
|
Well we had another playtest:
fight #1 was against a lone winter wolf in a large cavern complex that allowed horse and eidelon and plenty of room to charge, difficult terrain was involved.
Fight #2 was against 4 morlocks in a crowded tavern, that meant no eidelon, and no horse as they weren't allowed inside. Also civilians meant area of effect spells were a no no. but gave the good guys some leeway as the morlocks also fought random tavern goers as well so they weren't focused solely on the PCs
fight #3 was against 2 lions, it was outdoors and trees and rocks provided enough difficult terrain that some charging was prevented, but not all.
Fight #4 was against a fiendish minotaur in a chapel where pews and platforms prevented some movement and placement of large creatures, but not all, however the horse had not been able to come because a casm earlier in the complex prevented large animals without some climbing ability from getting by.
Each fight was progressive from the last meaning resources had to be saved. Although the fight in the tavern allowed for them to use gold to restock supplies and buy magic services (healing) if necessary, however any limited by per day ability they used was not replenished.
|
|
What I learned is that my cavalier is just fine off his horse, despite claims to the contrary challenge makes the cavalier off his horse work well with the party even if he focuses his feats on mounted combat.
As stated previously, I didn't even bother with the negligible benefits of the oaths, they weren't worth it and most of them wouldn't of even had an effect when I needed them.
|
I houseruled in light armor proficiency so that he could wear a chain shirt barding. Otherwise I would have had one less feat for my mount
...
Hm... never thought about that. I guess we always figured if the animal was combat trained then it didn't need a feat for barding.
Otherwise, no horse out of the book can wear barding proficiently, and especially since the Mount starts off with one feat he's already weaker than your average horse (one feat as opposed to two, Run and Endurance), it seems to me that if you're spending six tricks on combat training it should include barding. I mean, you're already bearing a 200 pound rider with *his* armor, what's ten more pounds of light barding?
|
|
I houseruled in light armor proficiency so that he could wear a chain shirt barding. Otherwise I would have had one less feat for my mount
...
Hm... never thought about that. I guess we always figured if the animal was combat trained then it didn't need a feat for barding.
Otherwise, no horse out of the book can wear barding proficiently, and especially since the Mount starts off with one feat he's already weaker than your average horse (one feat as opposed to two, Run and Endurance), it seems to me that if you're spending six tricks on combat training it should include barding. I mean, you're already bearing a 200 pound rider with *his* armor, what's ten more pounds of light barding?
Heh, what barding are you wearing? even padded armor weighs 10 lbs for a medium sized character, so even padded armor is going to be at least 20lbs for large size. But yeah by the rules they don't get armor. I don't understand how that makes them weak though, they still get the same movement, the armor check penalty just happens to come out of the attacks the horse rolls. The horses attacks really aren't that great to begin with.
|
|
Heh, what barding are you wearing? even padded armor weighs 10 lbs for a medium sized character, so even padded armor is going to be at least 20lbs for large size. But yeah by the rules they don't get armor. I don't understand how that makes them weak though, they still get the same movement, the armor check penalty just happens to come out of the attacks the horse rolls. The horses attacks really aren't that great to begin with.
I don't do good with numbers off the top of my head.
And obviously, your mount isn't a Rancor like mine...
Heh... heh heh... that'd be awesome...
No, you're right about check penalty. I'm at work and really really tired. Like I said, we've never really thought about at it at our table. Maybe because this past week is the first time any of us bought barding.
|
|
Barding has to be medium or heavy armor, just throwing that out there.
Um sorry that is wrong
Barding, Medium Creature and Large Creature: Barding is a type of armor that covers the head, neck, chest, body, and possibly legs of a horse or other mount. Barding made of medium or heavy armor provides better protection than light barding, but at the expense of speed. Barding can be made of any of the armor types found on Table: Armor and Shields.
Honestly, how I handle barding is if the horse has been trained for combat, a light (war) horse can wear light barding and a heavy (war) horse can wear light, medium, heavy barding. i believe that 3.5 has a similar rule about that, but i currently cant recall.