This thread gave me the giggles.Debating the importance of spelling and grammar sure beats edition wars, though, eh, Scott?
Every day of the week.
This thread gave me the giggles.
They make an App for tha...eh wait wrong topic never mind
Getting back to the original topic:
I think nothing is stopping DMs from using inspiration from old sources in new games. In my 3.5 Audor campaign, I used a lot of concepts from the old rules. For example:
1. Alignment languages were still used in some religous services.
2. Characters could be certified as "Champions" or "Warlocks" or even "Wizards". (To take the Wizard's exam required being able to read and prepare a set of randomly chosen 6th level spells.)
3. A lot of people, even commoners, had weapons with runes carved on them. (This was actually an idea from the original Runequest game, which one player remarked on.)
4. One of the monk orders, the Ironfists, were described as being founded by a paladin a long time ago who used fists against opponents when he felt he didn't need to use his sword. That paladin was based on a PC in a game I ran in 1981.
5. I invented a "savage" template so I could have savage orcs and goblins like the old-style hack-and-slashees we used to know. OTOH, the regular orcs, goblins, et al were treated as characters like they would be in the old Runequest game.
6. Besides the Wizard's Guild, there was in history an ancient guild of Illusionists, who were not the same as the current Illusionist Specialists. I tried making an Illusionist class, but failed. Finally, I decided that I could recase the 3.5 Psion as heirs to the ancient Illusionist Guild, but I haven't run any games since making that decision.
7. Magic items were very difficult to buy or sell. Few NPCs had the skills to make magic items, so getting custom-made magic items was almost impossible.
For my Pathfinder game, I decided to go with a whole new setting and just "forget" the old tropes and come up with new themes and motifs. So while in the old game the classes were represented in a rough ratio of 40% fighter-types, 30% priest-types, 20% rogue-types and 10% arcane-types, I don't know what ratio I will use for Pathfinder. I may totally redo the relations of monsters with each other. Since I've decided to go with a "ringworld" idea, I can give each sentient creature type its own continent.
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A line needs be drawn between corporate and academic worlds. A line should also be drawn between ‘hands on academia’ and ‘hands off academia’. When you’re in the hands off academic world grammar can seem like life and a good platform upon which to flout your perceived supremacy in non academic surrounds. Once you’re actively saving lives/building things/held to deadlines beyond 'peer review' it becomes less relevant tho often still held as a pleasant higher ground. In the corporate world (in most circles) it in no way hinders you and indeed can hamper you sticking to your guns and correcting things the mobley masses care little for. It’s like going to a bar and talking morality or health.
I see the point that you are trying to make, but as someone with a
one foot in the academic camp, one in the commercial camp and my hands spread Twister-like in between, crystal-clear writing is vital in all aspects of what I do. I think the need for grammar is more a factor of how important communication is to your work, rather than of whether it is academic or commercial. As an engineer, ensuring that what I write can be read back correctly is key in avoiding a visit from the f***-up fairy.
I'm interested in browsing -- though it is kinda funny that you couldn't count to 4 -- but, yeah, looking up those old sites does not look fun.
How 'bout this -- copy/paste a few teaser paragraphs from one or two of those sites here and then we can talk about them.
That'd be cool.
I will say that this is a bit unfair, because it sounds like you consider previous games boring or not worth your time. Now, I am a staunch supporter of any game that works for your group being the perfect game, regardless of edition, but I run more oldschool games because not everyone has the time for Pathfinder in my group (we often like to just play a game, but the depth of class in Pathfinder is very appealing to the group), although I enjoy running the system as an oldschool game.
Much of that information, beyond THAC0 is relevant to any fantasy game, and Philotomy's treatise on the dungeon as a Mythic Underworld should be read by anyone running a fantasy game.
Oh, Shinmizu, where were you earlier? I tried and came up with nothing.
I may or may not have been trapped inside a box. I think it depends on if anyone saw me or not.
I see the point that you are trying to make, but as someone with a
one foot in the academic camp, one in the commercial camp and my hands spread Twister-like in between, crystal-clear writing is vital in all aspects of what I do. I think the need for grammar is more a factor of how important communication is to your work, rather than of whether it is academic or commercial. As an engineer, ensuring that what I write can be read back correctly is key in avoiding a visit from the f***-up fairy.
Being understood is the point of grammar. If we were face to face, we could hear him speak and understand what he is saying. Since all we have here is the written word, if they are unintelligible, he will get bypassed and ignored.
Sorry, but his argument rings hollow. If your grammar is bad, at least TRY. Don't try to play it off that you have better things to worry about. Anywhere you are, if you are not understood you are ignored or laughed at.
AncientVaults&EldritchSecrets- Or he could just not have the time or inclination to go through all of that. I know I did not. If you have a point to make, make it. Use the extra material to flesh it out. Not make your case. I think you got the wrong impression from Ray's post.
AncientVaults&EldritchSecrets- Or he could just not have the time or inclination to go through all of that. I know I did not. If you have a point to make, make it. Use the extra material to flesh it out. Not make your case. I think you got the wrong impression from Ray's post.
If you have the time to create a Pathfinder character, you have the time to read a handful of small articles. I despise THAC0 myself, so I wouldn't suggest reading anything on the mechanics, but what harm is there in reading on the philosophy?
I believe I made my point quite clearly, but that nicely sums it up.
That "if you have a point to make, make it" comment sounds a bit gruff. I hope I didn't step on your sensitive little toes there by suggesting that people read up on the history and philosophy of the game that they are playing.
AncientVaults&EldritchSecrets- Or he could just not have the time or inclination to go through all of that. I know I did not. If you have a point to make, make it. Use the extra material to flesh it out. Not make your case. I think you got the wrong impression from Ray's post.If you have the time to create a Pathfinder character, you have the time to read a handful of small articles. I despise THAC0 myself, so I wouldn't suggest reading anything on the mechanics, but what harm is there in reading on the philosophy?
I believe I made my point quite clearly, but that nicely sums it up.
That "if you have a point to make, make it" comment sounds a bit gruff. I hope I didn't step on your sensitive little toes there by suggesting that people read up on the history and philosophy of the game that they are playing.
Actually, I've not read the THAC0 article, but as I remember, THAC0 was a big improvement over what came before. Before THAC0 came along, a DM would have to consult about three different charts to determine whether or not an attack hit or missed. To save time, players would go through the tables and create one specially for their PCs for each weapon so they would only have to look at that particular one.
Most DMs probably simplified things by only using one table. But still, it had to be a different table for each character class, and the monsters had their own to hit table.
The reason why they invented DM screens was so that the DM could have all the tables he needed in one place.
BAB is a lot better than THAC0, but THAC0 is a lot better than not having it.
A LOT of people play the oldschool games and the retro-clones and get by nicely without THAC0. In these days of cheap printing it really isn't a big deal to print out the basics of each class for a player to have at the ready.
BAB is good and certainly helps a detailed game run smoothly, but the oldschool way runs just as smoothly and there are several "one table" charts out there even for oldschool games that encompass PC and monster strikes in combat.
If you have the time to create a Pathfinder character, you have the time to read a handful of small articles. I despise THAC0 myself, so I wouldn't suggest reading anything on the mechanics, but what harm is there in reading on the philosophy?
I believe I made my point quite clearly, but that nicely sums it up.
That "if you have a point to make, make it" comment sounds a bit gruff. I hope I didn't step on your sensitive little toes there by suggesting that people read up on the history and philosophy of the game that they are playing.
Actually, that comment was not aimed at you. And who says I have the time to make a character right now? As I said, I neither had the time nor inclination to jump to links blindly and then read through them to see if they had any worth what-so-ever. Is it so much to ask that he at least notes what the links are about? THAT is what the point of Ray's quote was. I merely said to you (the rest of the post was to someone else)that you missed his point. He never mentioned or implied it being useless.
If it seemed gruff, well then I apologize it came across that way. It was not meant to be anything other than a straight forward stating of my opinion. Not some snarky little barb.
Having played both before and after THAC0, I can see the evolution of the system. Which is interesting. It was a great step forward from what came before it, but BAB is much better in my eyes. Even the one player I have who likes 2nd ed better says BAB rocks.