Witch: Healing hexes aren't that strong.


Round 2: Summoner and Witch


The witch’s healing hexes just aren’t that strong. I realize that they aren’t supposed to be powerhouses (especially since they can be used at-will), but the once-per-day target limitation really curtails their usefulness. I feel that they should offer some form of increased power.

Perhaps the minor healing hex could become cure moderate wounds at fifth level, and perhaps the major healing hex could advance to cure critical wounds at fifteenth level?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Enchanter Tom wrote:

The witch’s healing hexes just aren’t that strong. I realize that they aren’t supposed to be powerhouses (especially since they can be used at-will), but the once-per-day target limitation really curtails their usefulness. I feel that they should offer some form of increased power.

Perhaps the minor healing hex could become cure moderate wounds at fifth level, and perhaps the major healing hex could advance to cure critical wounds at fifteenth level?

That depends, in side a group of 5, you can heal 5/day. But if you are in an army style campaign, or are in a very large group it because pretty huge.


Galnörag wrote:
Enchanter Tom wrote:

The witch’s healing hexes just aren’t that strong. I realize that they aren’t supposed to be powerhouses (especially since they can be used at-will), but the once-per-day target limitation really curtails their usefulness. I feel that they should offer some form of increased power.

Perhaps the minor healing hex could become cure moderate wounds at fifth level, and perhaps the major healing hex could advance to cure critical wounds at fifteenth level?

That depends, in side a group of 5, you can heal 5/day. But if you are in an army style campaign, or are in a very large group it because pretty huge.

Yeah imagine the summoner and eidolon summoner... You can keep the summons around for min/lvl and heal them without wasting resources, too.

I mean, besides that, I agree the healing isn't great, but it's supposed to have utility purpose, not a main function. And it's actually quite good at early levels.

If you take both of the healing hexes, I think you're doing OK. Similar to Bard level of healing, at least. It should also allow you to craft potions/wands, which is actually the main part of healing. In combat, you just need the odd spell to keep you up, and it will do that, too.


At low levels, yes, the healing is useful. After that, it rapidly fades into uselessness. I'm merely proposing a slight boost to keep the healing with a modicum of usefulness at later levels.


Enchanter Tom wrote:

The witch’s healing hexes just aren’t that strong. I realize that they aren’t supposed to be powerhouses (especially since they can be used at-will), but the once-per-day target limitation really curtails their usefulness. I feel that they should offer some form of increased power.

Perhaps the minor healing hex could become cure moderate wounds at fifth level, and perhaps the major healing hex could advance to cure critical wounds at fifteenth level?

Yes but they also are one of the few classes that gets CURE Spells on their list. Together it makes for a moderate healer without stepping on the clerics toes.


No, the witch is a very weak healer. The witch will never step on the cleric's "toes" as a healer because the witch has to prepare all his healing spells. Giving him a slight upgrade to the healing hexes isn't going to break the class.


The hexes need to scale a little bit. Right now, they'll only be good for a level or two. I can't imagine wasting one of my major hexes for a cure serious per party member per day (and in many games, the whole party doesn't even take damage).

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

They're dependent on the party, similar to a bard's inspire courage. If you have a small party of 3 characters, they're not as useful, but if you have 5 characters, some with animal companions, familiars, mounts, etc. suddenly the healing hexes are a lot better.

Probably a better comparison is to channel energy, each use of which also can effect the whole party. A 5th level witch cures 1d8+5 with healing hex, for an average of 10.5, which is equivilent to a 3d6 channel energy. After that, the channel starts to win out. Not counting the fact that a cleric will have multiple channels per day (though many of them will be used in combat and not affect all party memebers.) Maybe simply letting a witch's healing hex cure 1d8 + witch level instead of acting as a cure light wounds, where it's capped at 1d8+5. (and a similar change for the major healing version.)


I don't get the resistance to allowing the witch's healing hexes to have a minor upgrade.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

I am currently considering having the healing hex upgrade to cure mod at 5th or 6th. In addition, I am considering having the major healing hex upgrade to cure critical at 15th or 16th.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

As an aside.. there is part of me that wants to call the higher level version "Extra Healing"...

Jason


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

As an aside.. there is part of me that wants to call the higher level version "Extra Healing"...

Jason

Will they be able to make potions out of these?


By the way: At first I was less-than-enthusiastic about the at will but only once per person deal, but when you stop and think about it, it's the perfect witch-in-a-cottage thing. Everyone can go to them and get healed - once.

We just need some more headology, and it's golden.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I am currently considering having the healing hex upgrade to cure mod at 5th or 6th. In addition, I am considering having the major healing hex upgrade to cure critical at 15th or 16th.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I'm really happy about this. I love the healing hexes, but I agree that it's rough that they don't scale at all. Cure Moderate will be useful all the way to 20 as out-of-combat healing. I mean, it'll take the edge off with roughly 19 HP healed, and that's much better than the 9.5 cure light did.

Once per person is an excellent limitation. It could have the witch serving in military campaigns, as a city doctor, or village healer. I freakin' love the roleplaying aspects of this.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i like one hex that kind of scales up at 5th, 10th, 15th
for cure mod, cure serious, cure critical, and a major hex that becomes useful in combat a number of times per day equal to the witch's intelligence modifier with mass cure light, then mass cure moderate.
just an idea. at the higher levels a cleric will be whipping out Heal, not cure mod, so its not as powerful as a cleric. but it also gives them more in-combat use, in exchange for a major hex.

Scarab Sages

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I am currently considering having the healing hex upgrade to cure mod at 5th or 6th. In addition, I am considering having the major healing hex upgrade to cure critical at 15th or 16th.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I recommend against making the healing hexes based off of the cure spells. In my experience cure spells are excellent combat healing but as downtime healing, or utility healing, they are abysmal. The healing amount given just varies too greatly so they tend to be exceptionally inefficient. This is compounded by the fact that the hex can only be used on a character once per day. Theoretically this can be a lot of healing, but more often than not you're going to roll low for the person you'd like to get more health back and roll high for the person you wouldn't mind that low roll for.

I like the idea that the hex is limited to once per person and this seems to be designed to spread a small amount of healing out to a large amount of characters. I'd suggest, if this is the case, that the healing hex give a more consistent amount of healing than the Cure spells. I recommended, I believe in another thread, that they be changed to be more like the Vigor spells from 3.5. Even cutting the amount healed in half (a consistent 5-6 damaged healed) would make it far more useful and efficient.


Is there any reason it can't be a means to give fast healing? Seems to me the witch shouldn't go "BAM! You're healed!" To me it seems it should be a gradual healing... an exceleration of the body's natural healing -- i.e. fast healing.

If the first healing hex gives fast healing 1 for a number of rounds equal to Int Mod, then Fast healing 2 at say 5th level then the major healing hex at 10th could start with 5 and go up to 10 at level 16. With a once per day limit per person this wouldn't provide unlimited healing, would be of great benefit out of combat, and would be unique to the witch instead of being just another "cure x wounds" spell like ability.

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