Personal Tweaks and Advice to Designers


Round 2: Summoner and Witch


I think it would have been preferable to see the Summoner have access to some healing spells, and to be able to design multiple forms for the eidolon. Rather than have access to summon monster at all, i would prefer to just be able to gain new forms for the eidolon, and design them accordingly. If that isnt an option though, How about Summon Monster I type spells, except that you can use evolution points on the summon at the time of casting? I also dont think that there should ever be more than one summon per player active at a time, not just for the summoner, but for ALL CHARACTERS as a blanket rule.

Again, healing is something that should be in this class, somehow. With as few spells as he has, i really dont see the harm in it, especially since he will be using most of the healing on the Eidolon.

I wish also that there had been an option to make the Eidolon look or feel undead. I know that slapping templates or subtypes on it would become a major headache, but i still had hoped that the Summoner could pass as a poor man's necromancer.

The witch is really well written. I also think that maybe the Familiar should be a bit hardier, since he is basically both the familiar and the spellbook. The ability to deliver the touch attack hexes of the witch would be helpful too. Personally, i wish that the saves, hd, and spell progression of the summoner and witch had been swapped, but as is is fine too i guess. Hopefully a future variant will allow the witch to take reduced spell progression to gain medium BAB and HD. OH, That reminds me!

While i really LOVE the new classes, and support new classes strongly, i think you guys should make more Alternate class abilities / variant classes. The more customizable classes are, the better. For the most part your Pathfinder classes have customization built right in, but more is better, to a point.

Another concern i have is that some of these newer classes will never see support. Wotc was horrible about that; making a new sourcebook with new classes using a new system, and then never publishing anything for them again. Thats probably why i love Secrets of Pact Magic so much. Despite its flaws, its a mountain of support for a system i loved.

So try if you can, to just work in some options for any new classes you publish. I know you guys put feats and options in your Chronicles and Adventure paths, so please, remember your new classes when you are crafting new Supplements, and try not to neglect the old ones in the process.


Kadeity wrote:
While i really LOVE the new classes, and support new classes strongly, i think you guys should make more Alternate class abilities / variant classes. The more customizable classes are, the better. For the most part your Pathfinder classes have customization built right in, but more is better, to a point.

There will be substantial amounts of new material for the core classes in the Advanced Players Guide. For example, they're working on Templars, which are alternate-alignment Paladins. The APG is 320 pages, so there's plenty of room for that sort of thing.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I wouldnt mind alternate class features and options as long as it doesnt become excessive. Choosing a class should give you some direction as to how your character should be made. I do not want to see what happened in Star Wars Saga Edition where there is only 5 base classes and a ludicrous amount of options for each, to the point where it is a chore to build a character, and very difficult for new players.


im also concerned about the number of actions the Summoner/eidolon can take. Perhaps he should be limited to a single standard or movement action while under stress(mostly during combat) so long as the Eidolon is present?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kadeity wrote:
im also concerned about the number of actions the Summoner/eidolon can take. Perhaps he should be limited to a single standard or movement action while under stress(mostly during combat) so long as the Eidolon is present?

That would be kind of an arbitrary rule no? It would also be difficult to explain why this particular person is less capable of acting 'under stress'.

I also think that its no more actions then a druid is capable of, so really the problem there is nothing new.


Kolokotroni wrote:


That would be kind of an arbitrary rule no? It would also be difficult to explain why this particular person is less capable of acting 'under stress'.

I also think that its no more actions then a druid is capable of, so really the problem there is nothing new.

the summoner is directing the eidolon, so he has to focus. It is more difficult under duress. Alternately, it could be treated like maintaining a spell.

It may not be a new problem, but the Portable-Zoo-Druid has never been a favorite class of mine, and i have always house-ruled that they spontaneously cast heal spells instead of summon natures ally, similar to the cleric. The summoner has an ally that is much more powerful than an animal companion, and can cast summon monster, which is generally more powerful than summon natures ally. He can crap critters.

The problem with having so many actions on one player is that that persons turn takes much longer. I like summons, but hate an army in a box approach to things. Its difficult to have that many extra actions in the hands of one player, and it also tips things in their favor if they are trying to accomplish something that the party in general isnt behind 100%.


Kolokotroni wrote:
I wouldnt mind alternate class features and options as long as it doesnt become excessive. Choosing a class should give you some direction as to how your character should be made. I do not want to see what happened in Star Wars Saga Edition where there is only 5 base classes and a ludicrous amount of options for each, to the point where it is a chore to build a character, and very difficult for new players.

You have a point, but this is considered a part of the Advanced Player's Guide. Beginning players should work their way through the base core classes until they're ready to advance to further optimizations.

Not intending to be snarky; just making an observation.

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