Summoner questions


Round 2: Summoner and Witch

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Working up a level 1 summoner for a playtest session tomorrow and I came up with two questions.

1.) What is the starting wealth for a summoner?

This is particularly important since I need to buy weapons and armor for effectively two characters.

2.) Can eidolons speak? And if so, what languages? And can I put skill ranks into linguistics so the eidolon can speak additional languages?


Vigil wrote:

Working up a level 1 summoner for a playtest session tomorrow and I came up with two questions.

1.) What is the starting wealth for a summoner?

This is particularly important since I need to buy weapons and armor for effectively two characters.

I don't think we have an answer for this one yet, but I'd probably guess same as bard.

Quote:
2.) Can eidolons speak? And if so, what languages? And can I put skill ranks into linguistics so the eidolon can speak additional languages?

This was answered in one of the other threads. An eidolon can speak any language the character can.

Grand Lodge

May as well make this a repository!

The Life Bond ability states that as long as the Eidolon has 1 or more hit points damage from the summoner can be transfered to the Eidolon 1 hit point at a time until the Eidolon reaches the negative of it's constitution score. But if the damage happens one hit point at a time the Eidolon will hit 0 hit points in which case this ability should cease to function.

Possible suggestion of "this ability may only be activated if the Eidolon has 1 or more hit points"

Also, Maker's Call may require a small clarification that the range is 100 feet per level from the Summoner to the Eidolon or some may interpret it as "We're 1000 feet apart the the Summoner is level 9 therefore I can teleport it only 100 feet away from me"

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

1) Since an eidolon is weakened or even banished if it's too far away from the summoner, how does this interact with teleport circles, traps, gates, etc? Do they have to be touching when the effect moves the summoner so that the eidolon is moved at the same time? What happens if they are on different planes or one is in an extra-dimensional space? It seems that this makes teleporting a non willing eidolon or summoner an additional way to banish it.

2) Rake evolution - do the rake attacks activate when combined with a pounce, similar to the bestiary description of rake, or is the eidolon version limited to only when grappling?

3) rend evolution - is the rend damage limited to only once per round like the bestiary ability (for eidolons with more than 2 claws.)

4) Limbs – could an eidolon with existing limbs spend only 1 point to gain one extra limb to create eidolons that are tri-laterally or radialy symmetric (such as a xorn or starfish)?

5)Burrow – is this only selectable if the eidolon already has claws? If no claws are present, are the claws from burrowing not usable for attacks?

6) Large size – does this give natural reach for bipedal forms and not quadrapedal or serpent forms?

7) Huge size – same reach questions as Large size.


Where was the languages addressed, I have yet to see a thread that covers it. Just wondering if I missed it and who addressed it.


Nerioth wrote:
Where was the languages addressed, I have yet to see a thread that covers it. Just wondering if I missed it and who addressed it.

This thread.

Read through that. Jason addresses the question in one of the posts.


Playtest wrote:

Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam

attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals
1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The
eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this
evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws
from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs
1 evolution point).
This evolution can be selected more
than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number
of the limbs evolution.

Thought I'd build a biped eidolon to act as the summoner's melee guardian. I'm really confused as to the bolded part. I'm reading this as the options of "keep the claws from biped, buy the slam for 1 point, have claws and slam" or "lose claws, buy slam for 1 pt and have only slam". Could someone please clarify? Thanks in advance.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Andrew Betts wrote:

May as well make this a repository!

The Life Bond ability states that as long as the Eidolon has 1 or more hit points damage from the summoner can be transfered to the Eidolon 1 hit point at a time until the Eidolon reaches the negative of it's constitution score. But if the damage happens one hit point at a time the Eidolon will hit 0 hit points in which case this ability should cease to function.

Possible suggestion of "this ability may only be activated if the Eidolon has 1 or more hit points"

Also, Maker's Call may require a small clarification that the range is 100 feet per level from the Summoner to the Eidolon or some may interpret it as "We're 1000 feet apart the the Summoner is level 9 therefore I can teleport it only 100 feet away from me"

As for the life bond ability, this was worded differently, but got changed to clear it up. An eidolon with a Con of 15 at -12 still has 3 hit points left for the purpose of this ability. I am going to need to work on that wording a bit more.. its tricksy!

As for the second bit.. no ranges work that way. Does anyone else see this as an issue?

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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JoelF847 wrote:

1) Since an eidolon is weakened or even banished if it's too far away from the summoner, how does this interact with teleport circles, traps, gates, etc? Do they have to be touching when the effect moves the summoner so that the eidolon is moved at the same time? What happens if they are on different planes or one is in an extra-dimensional space? It seems that this makes teleporting a non willing eidolon or summoner an additional way to banish it.

2) Rake evolution - do the rake attacks activate when combined with a pounce, similar to the bestiary description of rake, or is the eidolon version limited to only when grappling?

3) rend evolution - is the rend damage limited to only once per round like the bestiary ability (for eidolons with more than 2 claws.)

4) Limbs – could an eidolon with existing limbs spend only 1 point to gain one extra limb to create eidolons that are tri-laterally or radialy symmetric (such as a xorn or starfish)?

5)Burrow – is this only selectable if the eidolon already has claws? If no claws are present, are the claws from burrowing not usable for attacks?

6) Large size – does this give natural reach for bipedal forms and not quadrapedal or serpent forms?

7) Huge size – same reach questions as Large size.

1. You are correct.. you got to time it just right.

2. The eidolon version follows the eidolon rules.
3. Only once.
4. You could, subject to GM consent... We left this option out due to it making the other evolutions function oddly.
5. The claws bit is just flavor. It does not need them as a prereq, nor does it gain them with burrow.
6. Hmm... I need to check into this one.
7. Same.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Jikuu wrote:
Playtest wrote:

Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam

attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals
1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The
eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this
evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws
from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs
1 evolution point).
This evolution can be selected more
than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number
of the limbs evolution.
Thought I'd build a biped eidolon to act as the summoner's melee guardian. I'm really confused as to the bolded part. I'm reading this as the options of "keep the claws from biped, buy the slam for 1 point, have claws and slam" or "lose claws, buy slam for 1 pt and have only slam". Could someone please clarify? Thanks in advance.

Not exactly. You can buy an arms evolution without attaching a claws evolution to it. Arms come with hands that can hold stuff, but not exactly attack on their own.

Taking slam on an eidolon gives it the slam attack. If it has two sets of arms (one with claws and one without) it can take the slam evolution and have a slam attack and a claw attack. If it only has one set of arms, it replaces the claw attack.

Dark Archive

Jikuu wrote:
Playtest wrote:

Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam

attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals
1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The
eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this
evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws
from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs
1 evolution point).
This evolution can be selected more
than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number
of the limbs evolution.
Thought I'd build a biped eidolon to act as the summoner's melee guardian. I'm really confused as to the bolded part. I'm reading this as the options of "keep the claws from biped, buy the slam for 1 point, have claws and slam" or "lose claws, buy slam for 1 pt and have only slam". Could someone please clarify? Thanks in advance.

i see this as this

---you need limbs to have: claws, slam, or pincers
---base form comes with limbs with claws
---if you want claws and slam you need more limbs
---if you want slam and no claws, replace claws

does that clear it up for you.

Dark Archive

one question i just thought of

---arms evolution = comes with hands
---hands are not natural weapons

Can hands then make unarmed attacks?
---1d3 nonlethal (medium), 1d4 nonlethal (large), 1d6 nonlethal (huge)

...if so, can my eidolon take improved unarmed strike?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

If an eidolon with swallow whole has a creature swallowed, and then the eidolon is banished, either through hp damage or an appropriate spell, what happens to the swallowed creature?


JoelF847 wrote:
If an eidolon with swallow whole has a creature swallowed, and then the eidolon is banished, either through hp damage or an appropriate spell, what happens to the swallowed creature?

My guess would be the 4d6 damage and stunned that the Summoner takes when the eidolon gets banished while under the effect of Merge Form. Not explicitly stated, but it seems reasonable.


- Does Multiattack do anything for an eidolon that would be using weapons (a la weapon training evolution)?
- Is the Reach evolution purposefully ambiguous when describing what weapons could be used for it? i.e. Could an armed eidolon use it?


Jason Kossowan wrote:

- Does Multiattack do anything for an eidolon that would be using weapons (a la weapon training evolution)?

- Is the Reach evolution purposefully ambiguous when describing what weapons could be used for it? i.e. Could an armed eidolon use it?

Your first one, yes it does something. If you are using manufactured weapons you wont have more then two attacks. In which case you qualify for the second part, and get an iterative attack at -5 bab.

Your second one, I am uncertain, but i would rule its the limb that gets reach, so if that limb is holding the weapon it gets reach.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Your first one, yes it does something. If you are using manufactured weapons you wont have more then two attacks. In which case you qualify for the second part, and get an iterative attack at -5 bab.

Or, alternately, if you're using one of the many-limbed monstrosities around here that has a manufactured weapon and at least three natural attacks, you get to attack with your natural attacks at only -2 instead of -5 when using your manufactured weapon. Attacking with a manufactured weapon and natural weapons in the same full attack action turns the natural weapons into secondary weapons, which Multiattack will help with.


Zurai wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Your first one, yes it does something. If you are using manufactured weapons you wont have more then two attacks. In which case you qualify for the second part, and get an iterative attack at -5 bab.
Or, alternately, if you're using one of the many-limbed monstrosities around here that has a manufactured weapon and at least three natural attacks, you get to attack with your natural attacks at only -2 instead of -5 when using your manufactured weapon. Attacking with a manufactured weapon and natural weapons in the same full attack action turns the natural weapons into secondary weapons, which Multiattack will help with.

There's also the Multiweapon Fighting feat for creatures with 3+ arms wielding manufactured weapons as opposed to natural weapons, reducing penalties to -4 for the "primary" hand and -4 for all other "secondary" weapon attacks (as opposed to -6/-10).

A feat that would be absolutely necessary if you planned on making your eidolon Hector the Mini Hecatonchires. :D

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