Is the "gore" evolution really as useless as it looks?


Round 2: Summoner and Witch


I'm wondering if there's any mechanical benefit to the "Gore" evolution. From what I can tell, the gore does as much damage as a bite, but cannot be upgraded, and does not serve as a prerequisite to any other evolution, as bite does to trip. Why is this a 2-point evolution?


John Falter wrote:
I'm wondering if there's any mechanical benefit to the "Gore" evolution. From what I can tell, the gore does as much damage as a bite, but cannot be upgraded, and does not serve as a prerequisite to any other evolution, as bite does to trip. Why is this a 2-point evolution?

Well, that's odd. It's basically the same thing as Bite. Maybe they meant to have something else for it, maybe they wanted to keep people from grabbing all the natural attacks and getting an unholy amount of attacks for a full round action, maybe they just made a mistake. Who knows?


You can already get an ungodly amount of natural attacks with tentacles. Seems like this should give you something. Mabye a charging bonus or some synergy with 'Push'.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

I wanted to favor bite as a common attack form that most creatures have. Gore, on the other hand, is still cheaper than getting extra claws, due to the needed purchase of limbs. I know there are differences... but that was the basic thought.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I wanted to favor bite as a common attack form that most creatures have. Gore, on the other hand, is still cheaper than getting extra claws, due to the needed purchase of limbs. I know there are differences... but that was the basic thought.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

How does something feasibly bite and gore something in the same round? That's some impressive neck gymnastics. Perhaps coupling the gore with a charge could make it a more attractive option.


John Falter wrote:
How does something feasibly bite and gore something in the same round? That's some impressive neck gymnastics. Perhaps coupling the gore with a charge could make it a more attractive option.

Actually, it's feasible. If the goring creature tears up with its horn, it's just ripping up and back, leaving it access for a bite. In 6 seconds, that's not that crazy.


MaverickWolf wrote:
John Falter wrote:
How does something feasibly bite and gore something in the same round? That's some impressive neck gymnastics. Perhaps coupling the gore with a charge could make it a more attractive option.
Actually, it's feasible. If the goring creature tears up with its horn, it's just ripping up and back, leaving it access for a bite. In 6 seconds, that's not that crazy.

On second thought, I revoke this statement.

Sovereign Court

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I wanted to favor bite as a common attack form that most creatures have.

Why? do you want me to link the several hundred creatures in the natural world that don't use a bite as an attack? I don't understand why the base forms have a locked in attack form at all, the attack form should be chooseable by the creator of the eidelon. If he wants to make a quadraped at level 1 with a gore, slam, bite, or any other primary attack, why can't he? I don't see what the harm is in allowing each form to choose it's primary attack. The worst you'll see is them taking attack forms of similar bent so that one feat effects them all, but then they're paying for the extra attacks with their evolution points anyways.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

lastknightleft wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I wanted to favor bite as a common attack form that most creatures have.
Why? do you want me to link the several hundred creatures in the natural world that don't use a bite as an attack? I don't understand why the base forms have a locked in attack form at all, the attack form should be chooseable by the creator of the eidelon. If he wants to make a quadraped at level 1 with a gore, slam, bite, or any other primary attack, why can't he? I don't see what the harm is in allowing each form to choose it's primary attack. The worst you'll see is them taking attack forms of similar bent so that one feat effects them all, but then they're paying for the extra attacks with their evolution points anyways.

No... I do not want you to link to several hundred creatures. C'mon. I was talking about game creatures here. Most of them have a bite.

As for the presets.. it gives us a certain basic form to work from, and it also gives low level eidolons a specific amount of functionality without throwing open the gates by giving them 7 or 8 evolution points at 1st level, which is a bit much.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Liberty's Edge

lastknightleft wrote:


Why? do you want me to link the several hundred creatures in the natural world that don't use a bite as an attack?

Do it! Seperate links. Three hundred minimum.

Dark Archive

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

As for the presets.. it gives us a certain basic form to work from, and it also gives low level eidolons a specific amount of functionality without throwing open the gates by giving them 7 or 8 evolution points at 1st level, which is a bit much.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

this is what i thought too...


Ah, and the gore is a primary attack as well... I know it wasn't this way in 3.5, but in Pathfinder, can a creature have multiple primary attacks? If so, I see the gore being an excellent choice. Otherwise, you can get the same effect (in addition to looking quite a bit sillier) by grabbing a tail evolution and the tail slap ability, plus a small skill bonus. On top of that, unlike gore, the ability is not limited.


My two cents: Gore should give the chance (either included in the Gore evolution or put as a separate thing) to add the Powerful Charge special attack. Because it would make it more useful, and moreover, it would make sense.

Anyway, speaking of attacks, I had a little question. If an Eidolon with claws takes Slam evolution, the slams replace the claws. Why? Can't a creature have claws in its fingers and be able to strike with slam at the same time? (I mean that both the type of attacks permane, not that both can be used in the same attack action.)

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Yeah, I want the 100+ links, too.

Sovereign Court

Jason Bulmahn wrote:


As for the presets.. it gives us a certain basic form to work from, and it also gives low level eidolons a specific amount of functionality without throwing open the gates by giving them 7 or 8 evolution points at 1st level, which is a bit much.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

You don't need to give them any extra evolution points, just in the attack section instead of listing bite for quadraped instead have it say, 1 primary attack (1d6) it takes up slightly more space, but it allows players variety in their monsters. Sorry if I came off a bit snarky yesterday, when I first saw the eidelon power my imagination ran rampant and then I found out about half the creatures I wanted to create had attacks that didn't fit, or weren't one of the 3 forms.

For biped the attack section could say 1 primary attack x2 (1d6)

and serpentine could say 1 primary attack (1d6), 1 secondary attack (1d4).

I don't think that's very difficult to deal with for the advanced player's guide

Sovereign Court

Erik Mona wrote:
Yeah, I want the 100+ links, too.

It starts with the platypus as all good lists should :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

lastknightleft wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
Yeah, I want the 100+ links, too.
It starts with the platypus as all good lists should :)

It would be An Inconvenient Truth about bite attacks.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

To make gore a bit more unique, how about adding an evolution for powerful charge, that could only work with gore attacks?

Dark Archive

Or at least upping the damage to d8 or 2d6 ( 1 point slam + 1 point damage increase = 2d6 already )

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Lord Fyre wrote:
It would be An Inconvenient Truth about bite attacks.

So I guess that movie counts as a Gore attack?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
JoelF847 wrote:
To make gore a bit more unique, how about adding an evolution for powerful charge, that could only work with gore attacks?

...or an evolution that grants an impale ability similar to that of a certain famous one-horned magical beast.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Velcro Zipper wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
To make gore a bit more unique, how about adding an evolution for powerful charge, that could only work with gore attacks?
...or an evolution that grants an impale ability similar to that of a certain famous one-horned magical beast.

...the One Eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Epic Meepo wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
It would be An Inconvenient Truth about bite attacks.
So I guess that movie counts as a Gore attack?

You win the Nobel Piece Prize!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

lastknightleft wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
Yeah, I want the 100+ links, too.
It starts with the platypus as all good lists should :)

Just make sure you have some eidolons on the list. Otherwise, someone could easily say its irrelevant.

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