paizo.com Recent Posts in Summoner and Witch Playtestpaizo.com Recent Posts in Summoner and Witch Playtest2012-11-15T22:16:49Z2012-11-15T22:16:49ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestDanny Shirleyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1912010-02-13T20:51:25Z2010-02-13T20:51:25Z<p>My group of players</p>
<p>7th level Fighter, 2 Handed Spec
<br />
7th level Rouge, Poison Use Master, Dual Wield.
<br />
7th level Cleric, Healing Deity
<br />
7th level Sorcerer, Fire Bloodline
<br />
7th level Wizard, Arcane Specialization</p>
<p>This experienced group fought a 9th level Summoner and a small (4-6th level)
<br />
henchmen group. This was nearly a party wipe, mostly because of the Eidolon and some poor rolls. I ran the combat again to see if the rolls could be different. In all but one case the party was almost wiped out to a man. The Summoner is a very effective class, now the party is going to roll up at least one if not more. We also have a witch in the group now, but she has only adventured for half a level.</p>My group of players
7th level Fighter, 2 Handed Spec
7th level Rouge, Poison Use Master, Dual Wield.
7th level Cleric, Healing Deity
7th level Sorcerer, Fire Bloodline
7th level Wizard, Arcane Specialization
This experienced group fought a 9th level Summoner and a small (4-6th level)
henchmen group. This was nearly a party wipe, mostly because of the Eidolon and some poor rolls. I ran the combat again to see if the rolls could be different. In all but one case the party was almost wiped out...Danny Shirley2010-02-13T20:51:25ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestKristov1https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1902010-02-04T04:25:38Z2010-02-04T04:25:38Z<p>Did I miss any new rules releases by chance? I thought we were getting a new set of playtest rules sometime in January but I have been unable to find them around here.</p>Did I miss any new rules releases by chance? I thought we were getting a new set of playtest rules sometime in January but I have been unable to find them around here.Kristov12010-02-04T04:25:38ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestAeshuurahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1892010-02-01T17:23:57Z2010-02-01T17:23:57Z<p>We've only played a bit with the Witch (Doctor) so far, from 1st to 2nd level, and he seems a little more deficient in combat, but much more PROficient in non-combat situations. In terms of pure flavor, and role-playing opportunities, I would say that I like this class a lot. The player has put some concern on some relatively useless Cantrips though... I don't see the problem, myself... Cantrips are not supposed to be that useful in combat anyway.</p>
<p>Overall, I think that I like this class, and it seems to become rather scary at higher levels.</p>We've only played a bit with the Witch (Doctor) so far, from 1st to 2nd level, and he seems a little more deficient in combat, but much more PROficient in non-combat situations. In terms of pure flavor, and role-playing opportunities, I would say that I like this class a lot. The player has put some concern on some relatively useless Cantrips though... I don't see the problem, myself... Cantrips are not supposed to be that useful in combat anyway.
Overall, I think that I like this class, and...Aeshuura2010-02-01T17:23:57ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch Playtestrydi123https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1882010-02-01T07:49:21Z2010-02-01T07:49:20Z<p>So, just my two cents, after running a Summoner and a Witch up against my party this Saturday:</p>
<p>Summoner
<br />
This class seems a bit strong. The Eidolon, despite having been made more for flavor than for power, was still quite a powerhouse, and was able to get 5 attacks, pounce, grab, and a bunch of other abilities that made it more than a match for several characters that were specialized combatants. The players ended up ignoring the critter entirely, and killed the Summoner... if they hadn't done that as quickly as they did, they probably would have died. </p>
<p>The additional summoning abilities, as well as the nice spell list for augmentation and battlefield control (black tentacles is quite nice) makes them, imo, a bit too strong. My personal suggestions would be to limit the number of extra attacks for the eidolon, bump up the level haste is gained, up the cost on a few of the better eidolon abilities, and call it a day.</p>
<p>Witch
<br />
This class wasn't nearly as impressive to me, and the since the witch got killed in the first few rounds, I can't say much about balance (though all the touch effects were somewhat off-putting for a primary caster with low defensive and offensive capabilities). What I did notice however was that the class felt a bit... confusing for me to put together and run. The various hexes, how they work together, specific rules, all of it kind of blurred together for me. Not that I couldn't have figured it out with a few hours of reading and playing around with numbers to make the best stuff... But I was pressed for time, and for those GM's and players wanting something that can be learned and used in a reasonable amount of time (probably a fair share of those playing) I felt that it was just a bit poorly laid out for me to grasp.</p>
<p>A bit of streamlining would be nice, and this goes for the eidolon abilities as well. </p>
<p>—</p>
<p>Anyway, just a brief comment from my personal experiences. Hopefully it will be helpful.</p>So, just my two cents, after running a Summoner and a Witch up against my party this Saturday:
Summoner
This class seems a bit strong. The Eidolon, despite having been made more for flavor than for power, was still quite a powerhouse, and was able to get 5 attacks, pounce, grab, and a bunch of other abilities that made it more than a match for several characters that were specialized combatants. The players ended up ignoring the critter entirely, and killed the Summoner... if they hadn't...rydi1232010-02-01T07:49:20ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestDissingerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1872010-01-31T07:22:50Z2010-01-31T07:22:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon? </blockquote><p>The eidolon isn't considered summoned, but rather called through the one minute ritual it takes to bring it to the world. Because of this Augment Summon doesn't work.Chris Ballard wrote:Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon?
The eidolon isn't considered summoned, but rather called through the one minute ritual it takes to bring it to the world. Because of this Augment Summon doesn't work.Dissinger2010-01-31T07:22:49ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestCeefoodhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1862010-01-31T03:31:33Z2010-01-31T03:31:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon? </blockquote><p>at this time till the revision comes out the answer is simply NoChris Ballard wrote:Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon?
at this time till the revision comes out the answer is simply NoCeefood2010-01-31T03:31:33ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestChris Ballardhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1852010-01-31T02:21:36Z2010-01-31T02:21:36Z<p>Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon?</p>Does the Augment Summoning feat also provide its bonus to the eidolon?Chris Ballard2010-01-31T02:21:36ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestCandrith (alias of Rocannon II)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1842010-01-30T22:31:58Z2010-01-30T22:31:57Z<p>Will the official book have more of a background on the planar connection between summoner & E? </p>
<p>As in how they first contact He/She /It?</p>Will the official book have more of a background on the planar connection between summoner & E?
As in how they first contact He/She /It?Candrith (alias of Rocannon II)2010-01-30T22:31:57ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestGalnöraghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1832010-01-25T17:58:47Z2010-01-25T17:58:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Skizzy wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't understand your first part of the message.</p>
<p>I presume you're talking about the Misfortune Hex that was used on the Druid you fought? </blockquote><p>The druid was my ally and I placed the fortune hex on him.
<p>I see the confusing, yes she was in the tentacles, but that was because we were assaulting an island, and the druid turned into a squid and carried the party in his tentacles, and was taking his turn to place us inside the window of the tower on the edge of the island we were attacking. The witch was one of the last to leave the druids tentacles, and so she gave the druid a fortune hex.</p>
<p>So when the druid cast a dispel magic on his turn, that is where our experience on the fortune hex kicked in.</p>Skizzy wrote:I don't understand your first part of the message.
I presume you're talking about the Misfortune Hex that was used on the Druid you fought?
The druid was my ally and I placed the fortune hex on him. I see the confusing, yes she was in the tentacles, but that was because we were assaulting an island, and the druid turned into a squid and carried the party in his tentacles, and was taking his turn to place us inside the window of the tower on the edge of the island we were...Galnörag2010-01-25T17:58:47ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestSkizzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1822010-01-25T16:11:05Z2010-01-25T16:11:04Z<p>I don't understand your first part of the message.</p>
<p>I presume you're talking about the Misfortune Hex that was used on the Druid you fought?</p>I don't understand your first part of the message.
I presume you're talking about the Misfortune Hex that was used on the Druid you fought?Skizzy2010-01-25T16:11:04ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestGalnöraghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1812010-01-24T20:46:49Z2010-01-24T20:46:49Z<p>Just a small play test note, so I didn't want to start a whole thread. In our mid level campaign (10-11ish) my barbarian has brought in a witch as a cohort for some play test fun. During her first fight she was in the tentacles of the Druid (wild shaped as a giant squid.) So two things came out of my experience, the first was given the extremely limited duration, I think it should be less restricting in the types of rolls it applies to. I think it should just be any d20 roll, as right now it excludes stuff like caster level checks, checks to overcome spell resistance rolls, concentration (now that it isn't a skill) etc.</p>
<p>In our case the druid cast dispel magic and rolled pitifully, so the DM ruled that rerolling that was in the spirit of the hex. </p>
<p>Our other finding was that cackle is too short a range.</p>Just a small play test note, so I didn't want to start a whole thread. In our mid level campaign (10-11ish) my barbarian has brought in a witch as a cohort for some play test fun. During her first fight she was in the tentacles of the Druid (wild shaped as a giant squid.) So two things came out of my experience, the first was given the extremely limited duration, I think it should be less restricting in the types of rolls it applies to. I think it should just be any d20 roll, as right now it...Galnörag2010-01-24T20:46:49ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestChris Kenneyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1802010-01-22T00:04:41Z2010-01-22T00:04:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Istheresomethingonmyface? wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">MaverickWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus. </blockquote>Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. </blockquote>This is a newb question. Do outsiders not have their own language? If so wouldn't Big E speak it? </blockquote><p>"Outsider" as a type doesn't have an associated language. The majority speak a language based on alignment like Celestial or Abyssal, or one based on an element like Ignan or Aquan natively. Since the Eidolon doesn't have any particular plane associated with it it's difficult to tell what languages it should be able to speak that way.Istheresomethingonmyface? wrote:MaverickWolf wrote: Chris Ballard wrote: I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.
Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. This is a newb question. Do outsiders not have their own language? If so wouldn't Big E speak it? "Outsider" as a type doesn't have an associated language. The majority speak a language based on alignment like Celestial or Abyssal, or...Chris Kenney2010-01-22T00:04:40ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestIstheresomethingonmyface? (alias of Jason Martinez 854)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1792010-01-21T21:52:21Z2010-01-21T21:52:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MaverickWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus. </blockquote>Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. </blockquote><p>This is a newb question. Do outsiders not have their own language? If so wouldn't Big E speak it?MaverickWolf wrote:Chris Ballard wrote: I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.
Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. This is a newb question. Do outsiders not have their own language? If so wouldn't Big E speak it?Istheresomethingonmyface? (alias of Jason Martinez 854)2010-01-21T21:52:21ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestChris Ballardhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1782010-01-20T22:02:15Z2010-01-20T22:02:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MaverickWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus. </blockquote>Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. </blockquote><p>OK thank you.MaverickWolf wrote:Chris Ballard wrote: I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.
Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master. OK thank you.Chris Ballard2010-01-20T22:02:15ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestMaverickWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1772010-01-20T17:52:15Z2010-01-20T17:52:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chris Ballard wrote:</div><blockquote> I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus. </blockquote><p>Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master.Chris Ballard wrote:I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.
Jason has stated that the Eidolon knows the languages of its master.MaverickWolf2010-01-20T17:52:15ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestChris Ballardhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1762010-01-20T17:26:16Z2010-01-20T17:26:16Z<p>I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.</p>I'd like to know what languages are automatic for an eidolon to speak/understand. Also, what languages would be bonus.Chris Ballard2010-01-20T17:26:16ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestSkizzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1752010-01-18T09:32:23Z2010-01-18T09:32:23Z<p>What I think could work to also give the bond, between a Witch and its familiar, more of a feel would be to give the familiar a certain number of magical tricks that are based off of the number of spells the witch stores in their familiar.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>A fifth level witch has a total of 30 spells stored in her familiar.</p>
<p>The familiar gets to choose three spells, or 10% of the total spells stored, that itself could cast as self only spells or area affect spells centered on the familiar's position. The familiar gets a number of slots equal to 1/4th the witch's slots in the current level being used. (IE 4 first level slots familiar gets one spell cast 1/day for first level)</p>What I think could work to also give the bond, between a Witch and its familiar, more of a feel would be to give the familiar a certain number of magical tricks that are based off of the number of spells the witch stores in their familiar.
For example:
A fifth level witch has a total of 30 spells stored in her familiar.
The familiar gets to choose three spells, or 10% of the total spells stored, that itself could cast as self only spells or area affect spells centered on the familiar's...Skizzy2010-01-18T09:32:23ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestPiety Godfury (alias of Spiffy Jim)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1742010-01-15T13:11:50Z2010-01-15T13:11:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Skizzy wrote:</div><blockquote><p> For the Witch:</p>
<p>Has there been consideration on the possibility that the bonus spells from your familiar work in the same manner as a domain for clerics.</p>
<p>They get those spells known at the level and a slot that is capable of casting only that spell? </blockquote><p>I brought this upon another thread. I think it is a good Idea. Having even one extra spell you can cast (even every other level) is important, especially at low level and is ballanced, IMO, with the bonus spells cleric and wizard gets.
<p>I think flavor-wise it enhances the bond between familiar and Witch from "wow, I can choose to memorize this extra spell every even level" to "WOW, I get this spell I can CAST for free every even level." It makes the selection of your familiar species that much more important as well.</p>Skizzy wrote:For the Witch:
Has there been consideration on the possibility that the bonus spells from your familiar work in the same manner as a domain for clerics.
They get those spells known at the level and a slot that is capable of casting only that spell?
I brought this upon another thread. I think it is a good Idea. Having even one extra spell you can cast (even every other level) is important, especially at low level and is ballanced, IMO, with the bonus spells cleric and wizard...Piety Godfury (alias of Spiffy Jim)2010-01-15T13:11:04ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestSkizzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1732010-01-15T10:51:38Z2010-01-15T10:51:14Z<p>For the Witch:</p>
<p>Has there been consideration on the possibility that the bonus spells from your familiar work in the same manner as a domain for clerics.</p>
<p>They get those spells known at the level and a slot that is capable of casting only that spell?</p>For the Witch:
Has there been consideration on the possibility that the bonus spells from your familiar work in the same manner as a domain for clerics.
They get those spells known at the level and a slot that is capable of casting only that spell?Skizzy2010-01-15T10:51:14ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestPhil Renfroehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1722010-01-14T23:22:09Z2010-01-14T23:22:09Z<p>There are so many threads on this; can't tell if this is the right place to put this but here is some feedback:</p>
<p>Used the Witch to add class levels to Undrella the Harpy in Legacy of Fire (I did this because we have a party of 6 and I'm finding that the PFRG characters are stronger than the old 3.5 characters so all CR's must be upgraded...). I gave her the Sleep, Charm and Ward hexes as a level 4 Witch on top of her base monster statistics (I wanted a fight against her to be a tough experience for the party if they took that route and this added flavor to the encounter). I am using a homemade version of the Harrow deck fate card system that was introduced in the CoCT campaign so one of my characters who had the Rabbit Prince card was "fate chosen" to be Undrella's favorite and she added her Ward Hex to him.</p>
<p>The Ward Hex is really good. However, I noticed issue with the other two. I think that the Charm Hex needs to be upgraded to minutes instead of rounds and the way it is written it seems to be too much weaker than a <i>Charm</i> spell. (example: if the one person that is affected is unfriendly and raised to indifferent, but still surrounded by friends that are unfriendly, it seems this is worthless because they will join their friends). I wanted to cast the <i>charm</i> spell but then the rest of the party would notice this and I figured a very unfavorable response would come from it because they were waffling between work with her vs. combat her. My intent was for Undrella to charm her favorite using the hex (while pawing over her favorite "rabbit price" PC) which I read as more subtle and definately more "new" than a spell but the duration was too short and weak for it to accomplish anything. As is she really didn't end up using any of her abilities to push them into the direction of helping her, I did that by roleplaying only and they were swayed by metagame information when they realized she had placed the ward on him. I only used her harpy song to bring them close enough to use her abilities...</p>
<p>Also, the sleep hex is a very flavorful item for the witch (like something from Mother Goose). It needs to also be upgraded to ten minutes per level IMO. This would be perhaps the witch's best offensive hex option but again it is sort of short lived as written.
<br />
There seems to be a void in the hexes and the spell list at low level (againt his was just level 4 witch) as there is really no option that can affect everyone in a group, so particularly if trying to work for a PC, this is a handicap that should be addressed IMO. </p>
<p>Overall, I think this really worked well as an <i>NPC</i> class and particularly in this encounter. However, I am seeing a real void in offensive versatility for the witch as a PC so I feel it would be quite weak compared to an equivalent Wizard or Cleric. I know that the hexes are the witches toys vs. feats but I think it wouldn't hurt to throw in some bonus feats to the build or perhaps a feat that can be taken to allow earlier access to the higher tier hexes or to improve the power of specific hexes. Another boon to this class would be to make some of the spells that are really in line with the flavor of the class to be accessed as lower level spells than a Sor/Wiz/bard would receive them.</p>
<p>I did also come across some questions that I think need to be clarified in the final text.</p>
<p>A.) I've posted this elsewhere but there is no information for starting gold for any of the six new classes. This needs to be addressed for someone to make a new witch by the book...</p>
<p>B.) As I read it, the Hexes are an "at will" special ability. However, there does not appear to be any text that specifically says this or tells how many uses the witch receives. The hexes are weak enough that they do not seem to be unbalancing as an "at will" the way they are printed but maybe if you make them stronger as suggested above you might want to limit them to witch level + int bonus times per day. It also would help to clarify what "type" of ability this is specifically (like supernatural, magical, etc.) to help tie this to the various spells that could be used to counter the hexes.</p>
<p>C.) The familiar specific spells really should have spell levels clarified with them. I was assuming that they are the same level as for a Wizard or cleric (<i>shield of faith</i> from her Owl familiar) but at higher levels this assumption might not be correct and sometimes spell level is variable by class.</p>
<p>D.) Just an added opinion - in line with the "mother goose" flavor - the witch [i[needs[/i] access to more polymorphing abilities earlier IMO.</p>There are so many threads on this; can't tell if this is the right place to put this but here is some feedback:
Used the Witch to add class levels to Undrella the Harpy in Legacy of Fire (I did this because we have a party of 6 and I'm finding that the PFRG characters are stronger than the old 3.5 characters so all CR's must be upgraded...). I gave her the Sleep, Charm and Ward hexes as a level 4 Witch on top of her base monster statistics (I wanted a fight against her to be a tough...Phil Renfroe2010-01-14T23:22:09ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestBetatrackhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1712010-01-14T19:11:08Z2010-01-14T19:11:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Fafhrdnorseman wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Ok so a word of warning to anyone reading this. It almost entirely deals with AP #27 What Lies in Dust. If you are playing this, and do not want to know what is coming, you know what not to do</p>
<p>•• spoiler omitted •• </blockquote><p>So what average lvl was the party at?Fafhrdnorseman wrote:Ok so a word of warning to anyone reading this. It almost entirely deals with AP #27 What Lies in Dust. If you are playing this, and do not want to know what is coming, you know what not to do
** spoiler omitted **
So what average lvl was the party at?Betatrack2010-01-14T19:11:08ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestSkizzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1702010-01-13T10:16:06Z2010-01-13T10:16:06Z<p>Yeah 8th level gives you 4th level spells at least.</p>
<p>Black tentacles stops half the fight right there, especially if centered on the Eidolon.</p>
<p>And if that doesn't work there's always Web.</p>
<p>Not to mention if you have electricity or sonic to damage those creatures, for nonresisted damage.</p>
<p>But dude 18 rounds good job!</p>Yeah 8th level gives you 4th level spells at least.
Black tentacles stops half the fight right there, especially if centered on the Eidolon.
And if that doesn't work there's always Web.
Not to mention if you have electricity or sonic to damage those creatures, for nonresisted damage.
But dude 18 rounds good job!Skizzy2010-01-13T10:16:06ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestYuenglingDragonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1692010-01-13T05:41:18Z2010-01-13T05:41:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">dulsin wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm confused...</p>
<p>You had a Summoner NPC fight a party to a stand still for 18 rounds, alone, only using class abilities, and you think this is a good thing?</p>
<p>He is great for the BBEG at the bottom of a dungeon but I shudder to think of what a party with 3 summoners and a cleric would cut through. </blockquote><p>Bah. You could say the same thing about a well made Druid, Cleric, or Conjurer. The game isn't balanced. Total obsession with balance leads to 4th edition. the Summoner is a Caster which is a plus and has action economy which is another plus. It can be killed, though, and not too difficultly. All it would have taken the party was one save or suck with a fort save preferably or possibly a reflex save and the encounter might have been over.dulsin wrote:I'm confused...
You had a Summoner NPC fight a party to a stand still for 18 rounds, alone, only using class abilities, and you think this is a good thing?
He is great for the BBEG at the bottom of a dungeon but I shudder to think of what a party with 3 summoners and a cleric would cut through.
Bah. You could say the same thing about a well made Druid, Cleric, or Conjurer. The game isn't balanced. Total obsession with balance leads to 4th edition. the Summoner is a Caster...YuenglingDragon2010-01-13T05:41:18ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch Playtestdulsinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1682010-01-12T13:24:37Z2010-01-12T13:24:37Z<p>I'm confused...</p>
<p>You had a Summoner NPC fight a party to a stand still for 18 rounds, alone, only using class abilities, and you think this is a good thing?</p>
<p>He is great for the BBEG at the bottom of a dungeon but I shudder to think of what a party with 3 summoners and a cleric would cut through.</p>I'm confused...
You had a Summoner NPC fight a party to a stand still for 18 rounds, alone, only using class abilities, and you think this is a good thing?
He is great for the BBEG at the bottom of a dungeon but I shudder to think of what a party with 3 summoners and a cleric would cut through.dulsin2010-01-12T13:24:37ZRe: Forums: Round 2: Summoner and Witch: Summoner and Witch PlaytestFafhrdnorsemanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k752&page=4?Summoner-and-Witch-Playtest#1672010-01-10T21:07:17Z2010-01-10T21:05:04Z<p>Ok so a word of warning to anyone reading this. It almost entirely deals with AP #27 What Lies in Dust. If you are playing this, and do not want to know what is coming, you know what not to do</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>Ok so a word of warning to anyone reading this. It almost entirely deals with AP #27 What Lies in Dust. If you are playing this, and do not want to know what is coming, you know what not to do
[Spoiler omitted]Fafhrdnorseman2010-01-10T21:05:04Z